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KingOfTheDot


Joined: 15 Oct 2013
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Location: JetLife Stadium
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rampantjet wrote:
If we are tied to Hack then everyone should be fire, including the concession guys. However, if we aren't in a position to get a QB we like in the draft, then I am all in favor of just starting Hack. I am sick and tired old stop gap QB's who get us 5-8 useless stupid wins.

Play Hack, and he either starts learning and thrives (doubtful), or we end up with a top 3 pick in a draft that is supposed to have very good QB's (I'll believe it when i see, so many classes are supposed to be great).


Out of curiosity why say doubtful he thrives. I feel like we need to feed this team positive vibes and energy. If we're always doom and gloom then that's what we'll continue to get.
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rampantjet


Joined: 25 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingOfTheDot wrote:
rampantjet wrote:
If we are tied to Hack then everyone should be fire, including the concession guys. However, if we aren't in a position to get a QB we like in the draft, then I am all in favor of just starting Hack. I am sick and tired old stop gap QB's who get us 5-8 useless stupid wins.

Play Hack, and he either starts learning and thrives (doubtful), or we end up with a top 3 pick in a draft that is supposed to have very good QB's (I'll believe it when i see, so many classes are supposed to be great).


Out of curiosity why say doubtful he thrives. I feel like we need to feed this team positive vibes and energy. If we're always doom and gloom then that's what we'll continue to get.


Honestly I was probably more on board the Hack train than most, as a player. I still thought a second rounder for him was absurd, but I could see what they saw in him. He seemed mentally more ready for the NFL game than most QB's coming out. He was making it to his 3rd and 4th read in a hurry, when most guys barely ever do 2. He has the body and the arm strength you look for...but.... Accuracy might be the single most important thing a QB can have, and his is not just below average it is bottom of the barrel. Now I know they have plans on working on his mechanics this offseason and I think that will help some, but it can only do so much.

For example if you look at Pat Mahomes that kids feet are even less consistent than Hacks, yet that kid lets go of the ball and magic happens. He has the natural feel and accuracy to overcome bad mechanics. You fix his mechanics and he might be able to make those Aaron Rodgers throws that you rarely see anyone make. Hack just doesn't seem to have that feel. I suspect you can fix his mechanics and still watch him miss open guys from time to time.

Now I hope I'm wrong, it would be a massive win for the Jets if he turns into our QB of the future, and Macc would look like a genius. I just have my doubts.
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KingOfTheDot


Joined: 15 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rampantjet wrote:
KingOfTheDot wrote:
rampantjet wrote:
If we are tied to Hack then everyone should be fire, including the concession guys. However, if we aren't in a position to get a QB we like in the draft, then I am all in favor of just starting Hack. I am sick and tired old stop gap QB's who get us 5-8 useless stupid wins.

Play Hack, and he either starts learning and thrives (doubtful), or we end up with a top 3 pick in a draft that is supposed to have very good QB's (I'll believe it when i see, so many classes are supposed to be great).


Out of curiosity why say doubtful he thrives. I feel like we need to feed this team positive vibes and energy. If we're always doom and gloom then that's what we'll continue to get.


Honestly I was probably more on board the Hack train than most, as a player. I still thought a second rounder for him was absurd, but I could see what they saw in him. He seemed mentally more ready for the NFL game than most QB's coming out. He was making it to his 3rd and 4th read in a hurry, when most guys barely ever do 2. He has the body and the arm strength you look for...but.... Accuracy might be the single most important thing a QB can have, and his is not just below average it is bottom of the barrel. Now I know they have plans on working on his mechanics this offseason and I think that will help some, but it can only do so much.

For example if you look at Pat Mahomes that kids feet are even less consistent than Hacks, yet that kid lets go of the ball and magic happens. He has the natural feel and accuracy to overcome bad mechanics. You fix his mechanics and he might be able to make those Aaron Rodgers throws that you rarely see anyone make. Hack just doesn't seem to have that feel. I suspect you can fix his mechanics and still watch him miss open guys from time to time.

Now I hope I'm wrong, it would be a massive win for the Jets if he turns into our QB of the future, and Macc would look like a genius. I just have my doubts.


I feel you. I definitely think Hack is more concerned with being on target than just naturally throwing the ball. As an athlete when you're thinking too much then everything suffers. Similar to a basketball player aiming his jump shot or a baseball player trying to destroy a ball.

I keep going back to his freshmen film and I see a more relaxed, comfortable player. Thats the biggest thing for him, confidence and comfort.
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rampantjet


Joined: 25 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly. That is what I think of when i see him miss a throw. It is kind of like when Shaq was getting so much crap about his FT % and you could just tell he was pausing before each shot and putting so much weight on it. Hack just looks like he is over aiming as opposed to just letting the ball go. I think he's heard for the last few years about his accuracy problems that it has gotten in his head and it is gotten worse. I think he needs to work on his mechanics for sure, but a sport psychologist might benefit him the most.
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Bobby816


Joined: 21 Sep 2013
Posts: 8159
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rampantjet wrote:
Exactly. That is what I think of when i see him miss a throw. It is kind of like when Shaq was getting so much crap about his FT % and you could just tell he was pausing before each shot and putting so much weight on it. Hack just looks like he is over aiming as opposed to just letting the ball go. I think he's heard for the last few years about his accuracy problems that it has gotten in his head and it is gotten worse. I think he needs to work on his mechanics for sure, but a sport psychologist might benefit him the most.

For me Hack is as talented as most starting qbs in this league. But it takes a lot more than skill to be a good starting QB in the NFL. Look at Peyton, below average arm, ok accuracy but incredible mind. Really when we're assessing Hack it isn't the current guy. We are going based on film from him from now awhile ago. Given his age, he should be improving. But he needs confidence. I have no way to tell if he's confident in practice and in the film room. I do know that he has skill. Put that skill with confidence and opportunity and we can have something with him. At this stage I just don't know if the confidence is there bc of lack of opportunity.

To touch on accuracy... that's not a skill issue with me for him. For a QB that had very little time to throw his junior year against some good defenses as well, to only throw 6 ints was impressive. Showed a lot of growth from his sophomore year where he threw 15 with a bad oline.

I like a comparison of baseball and simple things. There was a period where Chuck Knoblauck couldn't make the throw from 2nd to 1st. He struggled when he had time actually. If a ball was hit sharply in the hole and he had to hurry he would make a great throw bc he didn't think about it. It really was the harder the play the better the accuracy. I think if the coaching staff hounds Hack on accuracy his accuracy will actually get worse. Have him work on other areas that he's comfortable with and the accuracy will be there. Don't make him think about too much, let him play.
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glenearl18


Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 1970
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanted Watson in round 2. Now that he's a top 10 prospect I want nothing to do with him. He's an above average QB, nothing more.
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Bobby816


Joined: 21 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Pat Mahomes is gonna fly up draft boards once workouts and all start. By far the most talented QB in this weak draft class. His biggest issue is his gun slinger play which will win you games but lose you some too. Favre like.
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barnaby8787


Joined: 01 Jan 2006
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Location: Manhattan, NY
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobby816 wrote:
I think Pat Mahomes is gonna fly up draft boards once workouts and all start. By far the most talented QB in this weak draft class. His biggest issue is his gun slinger play which will win you games but lose you some too. Favre like.
He's definitely the most talented in terms of skillset/athleticism and I agree, I do think he's going to fly up draft boards, but he's also very risky because of the air raid offense.
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KingOfTheDot


Joined: 15 Oct 2013
Posts: 10080
Location: JetLife Stadium
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobby816 wrote:
rampantjet wrote:
Exactly. That is what I think of when i see him miss a throw. It is kind of like when Shaq was getting so much crap about his FT % and you could just tell he was pausing before each shot and putting so much weight on it. Hack just looks like he is over aiming as opposed to just letting the ball go. I think he's heard for the last few years about his accuracy problems that it has gotten in his head and it is gotten worse. I think he needs to work on his mechanics for sure, but a sport psychologist might benefit him the most.

For me Hack is as talented as most starting qbs in this league. But it takes a lot more than skill to be a good starting QB in the NFL. Look at Peyton, below average arm, ok accuracy but incredible mind. Really when we're assessing Hack it isn't the current guy. We are going based on film from him from now awhile ago. Given his age, he should be improving. But he needs confidence. I have no way to tell if he's confident in practice and in the film room. I do know that he has skill. Put that skill with confidence and opportunity and we can have something with him. At this stage I just don't know if the confidence is there bc of lack of opportunity.

To touch on accuracy... that's not a skill issue with me for him. For a QB that had very little time to throw his junior year against some good defenses as well, to only throw 6 ints was impressive. Showed a lot of growth from his sophomore year where he threw 15 with a bad oline.

I like a comparison of baseball and simple things. There was a period where Chuck Knoblauck couldn't make the throw from 2nd to 1st. He struggled when he had time actually. If a ball was hit sharply in the hole and he had to hurry he would make a great throw bc he didn't think about it. It really was the harder the play the better the accuracy. I think if the coaching staff hounds Hack on accuracy his accuracy will actually get worse. Have him work on other areas that he's comfortable with and the accuracy will be there. Don't make him think about too much, let him play.


Great assessment from both of you. I remember watching some unseen parts of his Gruden QB Camp when they were on the field and you see him relaxed and just having fun out there.

I think he's obviously feeling the pressure to be great and being in New York doesn't really help. I really do hope he just settles down and plays the game. It's going to do a lot for him if he can regain his confidence and relax out there.
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barnaby8787


Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 9936
Location: Manhattan, NY
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingOfTheDot wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
rampantjet wrote:
Exactly. That is what I think of when i see him miss a throw. It is kind of like when Shaq was getting so much crap about his FT % and you could just tell he was pausing before each shot and putting so much weight on it. Hack just looks like he is over aiming as opposed to just letting the ball go. I think he's heard for the last few years about his accuracy problems that it has gotten in his head and it is gotten worse. I think he needs to work on his mechanics for sure, but a sport psychologist might benefit him the most.

For me Hack is as talented as most starting qbs in this league. But it takes a lot more than skill to be a good starting QB in the NFL. Look at Peyton, below average arm, ok accuracy but incredible mind. Really when we're assessing Hack it isn't the current guy. We are going based on film from him from now awhile ago. Given his age, he should be improving. But he needs confidence. I have no way to tell if he's confident in practice and in the film room. I do know that he has skill. Put that skill with confidence and opportunity and we can have something with him. At this stage I just don't know if the confidence is there bc of lack of opportunity.

To touch on accuracy... that's not a skill issue with me for him. For a QB that had very little time to throw his junior year against some good defenses as well, to only throw 6 ints was impressive. Showed a lot of growth from his sophomore year where he threw 15 with a bad oline.

I like a comparison of baseball and simple things. There was a period where Chuck Knoblauck couldn't make the throw from 2nd to 1st. He struggled when he had time actually. If a ball was hit sharply in the hole and he had to hurry he would make a great throw bc he didn't think about it. It really was the harder the play the better the accuracy. I think if the coaching staff hounds Hack on accuracy his accuracy will actually get worse. Have him work on other areas that he's comfortable with and the accuracy will be there. Don't make him think about too much, let him play.


Great assessment from both of you. I remember watching some unseen parts of his Gruden QB Camp when they were on the field and you see him relaxed and just having fun out there.

I think he's obviously feeling the pressure to be great and being in New York doesn't really help. I really do hope he just settles down and plays the game. It's going to do a lot for him if he can regain his confidence and relax out there.
For me, I think the best situation for Hack would have been a place with an established QB where the guy could be a backup for a few years with zero pressure to start like a New England with Jimmy G, Cincy with AJ, etc. The problem is that we have no solution as QB, so the media and fans expect the guy to be ready to start, which isn't fair.
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KingOfTheDot


Joined: 15 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

barnaby8787 wrote:
KingOfTheDot wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
rampantjet wrote:
Exactly. That is what I think of when i see him miss a throw. It is kind of like when Shaq was getting so much crap about his FT % and you could just tell he was pausing before each shot and putting so much weight on it. Hack just looks like he is over aiming as opposed to just letting the ball go. I think he's heard for the last few years about his accuracy problems that it has gotten in his head and it is gotten worse. I think he needs to work on his mechanics for sure, but a sport psychologist might benefit him the most.

For me Hack is as talented as most starting qbs in this league. But it takes a lot more than skill to be a good starting QB in the NFL. Look at Peyton, below average arm, ok accuracy but incredible mind. Really when we're assessing Hack it isn't the current guy. We are going based on film from him from now awhile ago. Given his age, he should be improving. But he needs confidence. I have no way to tell if he's confident in practice and in the film room. I do know that he has skill. Put that skill with confidence and opportunity and we can have something with him. At this stage I just don't know if the confidence is there bc of lack of opportunity.

To touch on accuracy... that's not a skill issue with me for him. For a QB that had very little time to throw his junior year against some good defenses as well, to only throw 6 ints was impressive. Showed a lot of growth from his sophomore year where he threw 15 with a bad oline.

I like a comparison of baseball and simple things. There was a period where Chuck Knoblauck couldn't make the throw from 2nd to 1st. He struggled when he had time actually. If a ball was hit sharply in the hole and he had to hurry he would make a great throw bc he didn't think about it. It really was the harder the play the better the accuracy. I think if the coaching staff hounds Hack on accuracy his accuracy will actually get worse. Have him work on other areas that he's comfortable with and the accuracy will be there. Don't make him think about too much, let him play.


Great assessment from both of you. I remember watching some unseen parts of his Gruden QB Camp when they were on the field and you see him relaxed and just having fun out there.

I think he's obviously feeling the pressure to be great and being in New York doesn't really help. I really do hope he just settles down and plays the game. It's going to do a lot for him if he can regain his confidence and relax out there.
For me, I think the best situation for Hack would have been a place with an established QB where the guy could be a backup for a few years with zero pressure to start like a New England with Jimmy G, Cincy with AJ, etc. The problem is that we have no solution as QB, so the media and fans expect the guy to be ready to start, which isn't fair.

Yeah it's really unfair to him as a player. But the media loves to create drama. Remember how when we were basically negotiating with Fitz and the media said they had sources that Petty was terrible and had not improved at all. They shifted the narrative to Hack this year and fans obviously follow the stories because it's really the only source of information we get.

I just want the kid to have a fair shot, for once if we do this the right way we might have something.
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Bobby816


Joined: 21 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingOfTheDot wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
KingOfTheDot wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
rampantjet wrote:
Exactly. That is what I think of when i see him miss a throw. It is kind of like when Shaq was getting so much crap about his FT % and you could just tell he was pausing before each shot and putting so much weight on it. Hack just looks like he is over aiming as opposed to just letting the ball go. I think he's heard for the last few years about his accuracy problems that it has gotten in his head and it is gotten worse. I think he needs to work on his mechanics for sure, but a sport psychologist might benefit him the most.

For me Hack is as talented as most starting qbs in this league. But it takes a lot more than skill to be a good starting QB in the NFL. Look at Peyton, below average arm, ok accuracy but incredible mind. Really when we're assessing Hack it isn't the current guy. We are going based on film from him from now awhile ago. Given his age, he should be improving. But he needs confidence. I have no way to tell if he's confident in practice and in the film room. I do know that he has skill. Put that skill with confidence and opportunity and we can have something with him. At this stage I just don't know if the confidence is there bc of lack of opportunity.

To touch on accuracy... that's not a skill issue with me for him. For a QB that had very little time to throw his junior year against some good defenses as well, to only throw 6 ints was impressive. Showed a lot of growth from his sophomore year where he threw 15 with a bad oline.

I like a comparison of baseball and simple things. There was a period where Chuck Knoblauck couldn't make the throw from 2nd to 1st. He struggled when he had time actually. If a ball was hit sharply in the hole and he had to hurry he would make a great throw bc he didn't think about it. It really was the harder the play the better the accuracy. I think if the coaching staff hounds Hack on accuracy his accuracy will actually get worse. Have him work on other areas that he's comfortable with and the accuracy will be there. Don't make him think about too much, let him play.


Great assessment from both of you. I remember watching some unseen parts of his Gruden QB Camp when they were on the field and you see him relaxed and just having fun out there.

I think he's obviously feeling the pressure to be great and being in New York doesn't really help. I really do hope he just settles down and plays the game. It's going to do a lot for him if he can regain his confidence and relax out there.
For me, I think the best situation for Hack would have been a place with an established QB where the guy could be a backup for a few years with zero pressure to start like a New England with Jimmy G, Cincy with AJ, etc. The problem is that we have no solution as QB, so the media and fans expect the guy to be ready to start, which isn't fair.

Yeah it's really unfair to him as a player. But the media loves to create drama. Remember how when we were basically negotiating with Fitz and the media said they had sources that Petty was terrible and had not improved at all. They shifted the narrative to Hack this year and fans obviously follow the stories because it's really the only source of information we get.

I just want the kid to have a fair shot, for once if we do this the right way we might have something.

I would've liked to see him start the last game of the year just because. But we stuck to the plan and "redshirted" him year 1. The problem is with that he still is the best QB on the roster and I don't think any QB in the draft is better than him. I'll agree that Tyrod if cut is better then him "right now" but he also will cost 15-20mikl a year, which seems rather pointless to me to spend when we can have an answer at QB for 1-2mill.
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jetfuel


Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 1817
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see the QB talk is pretty much dominating this thread. The one thing that no one talks about when it comes to QB is the OC. The OC is what really makes or breaks a young QB unless they are an elite one coming out i.e Manning, Luck.

I hope the jets do draft a QB and it is Chad Kelly. He has everything that a pro style QB needs. If they do not draft him I hope it is Brad Kaaya. I would stay very far away from Mitch Trubisky.
My last year ranks for QB was

Wentz
Dak
Goff (I have Goff in a distance from 2 too.)
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Bianconero


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tyrod + Fournette 2k17 ?
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Jag68Sid87


Joined: 04 May 2015
Posts: 190
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

barnaby8787 wrote:
KingOfTheDot wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
rampantjet wrote:
Exactly. That is what I think of when i see him miss a throw. It is kind of like when Shaq was getting so much crap about his FT % and you could just tell he was pausing before each shot and putting so much weight on it. Hack just looks like he is over aiming as opposed to just letting the ball go. I think he's heard for the last few years about his accuracy problems that it has gotten in his head and it is gotten worse. I think he needs to work on his mechanics for sure, but a sport psychologist might benefit him the most.

For me Hack is as talented as most starting qbs in this league. But it takes a lot more than skill to be a good starting QB in the NFL. Look at Peyton, below average arm, ok accuracy but incredible mind. Really when we're assessing Hack it isn't the current guy. We are going based on film from him from now awhile ago. Given his age, he should be improving. But he needs confidence. I have no way to tell if he's confident in practice and in the film room. I do know that he has skill. Put that skill with confidence and opportunity and we can have something with him. At this stage I just don't know if the confidence is there bc of lack of opportunity.

To touch on accuracy... that's not a skill issue with me for him. For a QB that had very little time to throw his junior year against some good defenses as well, to only throw 6 ints was impressive. Showed a lot of growth from his sophomore year where he threw 15 with a bad oline.

I like a comparison of baseball and simple things. There was a period where Chuck Knoblauck couldn't make the throw from 2nd to 1st. He struggled when he had time actually. If a ball was hit sharply in the hole and he had to hurry he would make a great throw bc he didn't think about it. It really was the harder the play the better the accuracy. I think if the coaching staff hounds Hack on accuracy his accuracy will actually get worse. Have him work on other areas that he's comfortable with and the accuracy will be there. Don't make him think about too much, let him play.


Great assessment from both of you. I remember watching some unseen parts of his Gruden QB Camp when they were on the field and you see him relaxed and just having fun out there.

I think he's obviously feeling the pressure to be great and being in New York doesn't really help. I really do hope he just settles down and plays the game. It's going to do a lot for him if he can regain his confidence and relax out there.
For me, I think the best situation for Hack would have been a place with an established QB where the guy could be a backup for a few years with zero pressure to start like a New England with Jimmy G, Cincy with AJ, etc. The problem is that we have no solution as QB, so the media and fans expect the guy to be ready to start, which isn't fair.


I agree with that, which is why we should get Tony Romo. At the very least, we stop the debate about who is starting. That helps both Petty and Hackenberg, or whomever else we want to bring in via the draft or FA.

Those guys will probably play at some point if we can't keep Romo healthy, but otherwise they will sit. We get a Pro Bowl-caliber QB for a season or two, which can only help the entire organization. We become more respectable on offense, the younger QB's learn from one of the top throwers in the league, the young receivers get better, etc. etc.
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