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J-ALL-DAY


Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 43605
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He actually looked really good at LT vs the Rams but speedy pass rushers could give him issues. His progression next season from this year will be one to keep an eye on. The scheme change if we go with McDaniels could make him look much better than he did in Kelly's scheme. I'd say the same goes to Garnett.
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Fureys49ers


Joined: 31 Mar 2015
Posts: 353
Location: Dublin, CA
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea in my mind the best fits for our young OL being Tiller, Davis and Garnett is as you said, a gap scheme where they can fire off the ball and get their hands on people right away. Still would love to see a good C in the middle of our offense to help both OGs
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 18998
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
He actually looked really good at LT vs the Rams but speedy pass rushers could give him issues. His progression next season from this year will be one to keep an eye on. The scheme change if we go with McDaniels could make him look much better than he did in Kelly's scheme. I'd say the same goes to Garnett.


Yep. Brown has started 18 games, Garnett has started 11. Another off season to work on their bodies and their technique, and a new staff to coach them should give us a pretty good idea of good they can become.
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Fureys49ers


Joined: 31 Mar 2015
Posts: 353
Location: Dublin, CA
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Zeitler along with Andrew Whitworth are both thought to be available through FA. I'm still a fan of bettering our team through competition, bringing in Whitworth to push and/or start over Brown. Zeitler for the same reason at OG. Having an OL Depth chart of Staley, Whitworth, Brown, Zeitler, Garnett, Beadles, Kilgore and maybe a rookie at C would be an amazing OL for this upcoming year as well as the future. Whoever our QB ends up being keeping them up right and giving Hyde running lanes will be extremely important.

Probably a long shot to get both of those guys but building the trenches up would go a long way in making our below average "skill" players become more effective.
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dan77733


Joined: 13 Apr 2014
Posts: 1810
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zeitler would be good but at the same time, where would that leave Tiller and Garnett? If these two are good enough to be starters, then they should be. If not, then Zeitler would be good.

No interest in Whitworth. Really don't see the point in signing an old and almost done OL. We have Staley and Trent Brown. Prefer to draft an OT early with the hope he can replace Staley eventually.
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Fureys49ers


Joined: 31 Mar 2015
Posts: 353
Location: Dublin, CA
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dan77733 wrote:
Zeitler would be good but at the same time, where would that leave Tiller and Garnett? If these two are good enough to be starters, then they should be. If not, then Zeitler would be good.

No interest in Whitworth. Really don't see the point in signing an old and almost done OL. We have Staley and Trent Brown. Prefer to draft an OT early with the hope he can replace Staley eventually.


Zeitler would push both Garnett and Tiller, who is a FA himself. But Zeitler is still relatively young and has proven the course of his rookie contract that he is a very good guard. I'm not sure either Garnett or Tiller are starting OGs as they both struggled mightily last. Doesn't mean they can't get better and continue to develop but I'd rather bring in competition to push them and in case they don't improve than just hope they do.

I get that Whitworth is older and probably only has a couple years left so I'm sure he'd want to get one last pay check and start some where but I would love to have him as a swing OT and help bring Brown along. We drafted two young OTs last year in Theus and Cooper.
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 18998
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fureys49ers wrote:
Kevin Zeitler along with Andrew Whitworth are both thought to be available through FA. I'm still a fan of bettering our team through competition, bringing in Whitworth to push and/or start over Brown. Zeitler for the same reason at OG. Having an OL Depth chart of Staley, Whitworth, Brown, Zeitler, Garnett, Beadles, Kilgore and maybe a rookie at C would be an amazing OL for this upcoming year as well as the future. Whoever our QB ends up being keeping them up right and giving Hyde running lanes will be extremely important.

Probably a long shot to get both of those guys but building the trenches up would go a long way in making our below average "skill" players become more effective.


Dak and Zeke are both really good. But they look great because that Dallas o-line is one of the besty assembled in years. I'm all for building a really strong o-line no matter what type of attack our new staff decides to use.
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dan77733


Joined: 13 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fureys49ers wrote:
dan77733 wrote:
Zeitler would be good but at the same time, where would that leave Tiller and Garnett? If these two are good enough to be starters, then they should be. If not, then Zeitler would be good.

No interest in Whitworth. Really don't see the point in signing an old and almost done OL. We have Staley and Trent Brown. Prefer to draft an OT early with the hope he can replace Staley eventually.


Zeitler would push both Garnett and Tiller, who is a FA himself. But Zeitler is still relatively young and has proven the course of his rookie contract that he is a very good guard. I'm not sure either Garnett or Tiller are starting OGs as they both struggled mightily last. Doesn't mean they can't get better and continue to develop but I'd rather bring in competition to push them and in case they don't improve than just hope they do.

I get that Whitworth is older and probably only has a couple years left so I'm sure he'd want to get one last pay check and start some where but I would love to have him as a swing OT and help bring Brown along. We drafted two young OTs last year in Theus and Cooper.


I believe that Tiller is an RFA if I remember correctly and hopefully, the new GM extends him to a long term deal. He's good and cheap.

I get what you're saying about Whitworth but has he ever played RT? Would he be willing to be a backup/swing tackle? Most importantly, how much would he cost? I don't have any problem spending money in free agency but not on aging veterans who are done or close to done.

Mid 20's is ideal. Players who are in that age range are the players that I would go after.
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rudyZ


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 16501
Location: Québec
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm really hoping more for an actual center at this point. David DeCastro was considered a bust a year into his NFL career, and now he's a probowler. Maybe it will be the same for our own Stanford OG. For as pro style as Stanford's offense has been, their OL have struggled to adjust to the NFL, if not initially, then altogether (the latter describes Jonathan Martin). I think Garnett is a talented guy who got a bit overwhelmed. Anthony Davis tweeted that he didn't want to work with Pat Flaherty, the OL coach. Maybe a better OL coach makes a probowler out of Garnett down the road. As I've said in the last few weeks, I don't really watch the OL play all that much, especially not individuals on the OL. I tend to judge the unit by the end results. Does the QB have a pocket and time to throw? How's the running game going? But individually, I can't evaluate anyone, personally. Is Garnett that bad, or is it the scheme (he's a power man guy, Chip ran a zone blocking scheme, we can really see the problem of having Baalke and Chip work "together"), or is it bad positional coaching? I'll give him, and Tiller, a chance to show what they can do under a more fitting scheme, with better coaches.

And just adding a more capable center might just elevate the play of the entire interior of the line. You're only as strong as your weakest link, and I feel our weakest link was center. You simply cannot compete in the NFL if you don't have good OTs, but plenty of teams have very good OTs and still have a bad OL. The difference is often the C. If you have two good OTs and a very good C, then the two guards become almost plug-and-play, because they have players on both sides helping them out and masking their weaknesses. I'd go hard after a top notch center this year, if possible (if there's any available). I'd bring competition at that spot first and foremost. But sure, if we can add another G at a reasonable price (not that it matters), it can't hurt. But I feel that would be missing the issue.
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Fureys49ers


Joined: 31 Mar 2015
Posts: 353
Location: Dublin, CA
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree Rudy in that a center has to be added and I'd love to see one of the top rookies at that position added as they should be available in the middle rounds. Or to bring in a savvy veteran like Joe Hawley with a nasty demeanor. I dont at any point was Decastro considered a bust, he was injured his rookie year and took some time to adjust to the NFL and coming back from injury the year after, been a pro bowler ever since. But I am hoping we some improvement from Garnett.

Not sure if Whitworth would be good with taking a back seat but as I said it would be an open competition at RT. We have so much cap space as well why not use it! Suring up our OL would be a huge priority in my mind. I don't think Whitworth has ever played RT, strictly LT if I'm not mistaken but considering when Staley went down we were starting Beadles there I'd say our depth is drastically lacking.

The cowboys had a very strong OL already and still took a chance with bringing Laell Collins and continuing to keep the OG he replaced. They seem to understand how valueable their big guys are to their teams and rookies on that team success. Simply hoping Brown, Tiller and Garnett get better is no longer an option for me.
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Fureys49ers


Joined: 31 Mar 2015
Posts: 353
Location: Dublin, CA
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trumaine Johnson expected to hit FA. Really like what I saw out Rashard Robinson this year and love his length and athletic ability so seeing him lined up across from Johnson would definitely be imposing to offenses. Ward seems like a legit nickel back and can battle out for position with Brock for our depth. Brock is a decent cover man but he really shouldn't be any higher than #3 on any NFL team. We were a team that seemed to be very interested in Sean Smith last year, would be amazing for our secondary to add a piece like Johnson
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 18998
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
I'm really hoping more for an actual center at this point. David DeCastro was considered a bust a year into his NFL career, and now he's a probowler. Maybe it will be the same for our own Stanford OG. For as pro style as Stanford's offense has been, their OL have struggled to adjust to the NFL, if not initially, then altogether (the latter describes Jonathan Martin). I think Garnett is a talented guy who got a bit overwhelmed. Anthony Davis tweeted that he didn't want to work with Pat Flaherty, the OL coach. Maybe a better OL coach makes a probowler out of Garnett down the road. As I've said in the last few weeks, I don't really watch the OL play all that much, especially not individuals on the OL. I tend to judge the unit by the end results. Does the QB have a pocket and time to throw? How's the running game going? But individually, I can't evaluate anyone, personally. Is Garnett that bad, or is it the scheme (he's a power man guy, Chip ran a zone blocking scheme, we can really see the problem of having Baalke and Chip work "together"), or is it bad positional coaching? I'll give him, and Tiller, a chance to show what they can do under a more fitting scheme, with better coaches.

And just adding a more capable center might just elevate the play of the entire interior of the line. You're only as strong as your weakest link, and I feel our weakest link was center. You simply cannot compete in the NFL if you don't have good OTs, but plenty of teams have very good OTs and still have a bad OL. The difference is often the C. If you have two good OTs and a very good C, then the two guards become almost plug-and-play, because they have players on both sides helping them out and masking their weaknesses. I'd go hard after a top notch center this year, if possible (if there's any available). I'd bring competition at that spot first and foremost. But sure, if we can add another G at a reasonable price (not that it matters), it can't hurt. But I feel that would be missing the issue.


agree with all this
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Fureys49ers


Joined: 31 Mar 2015
Posts: 353
Location: Dublin, CA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just read Brandon Williams is expected to go out in FA and try and sign a lucrative contract somewhere else. Would love to add him to the middle of our DL.
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NcFinest9erFan


Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Posts: 4815
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
ESPN Jaguars reporter Mike DiRocco expects Jacksonville to release Julius Thomas this offseason.


maybe worth a bone?
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Fureys49ers


Joined: 31 Mar 2015
Posts: 353
Location: Dublin, CA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NcFinest9erFan wrote:
Quote:
ESPN Jaguars reporter Mike DiRocco expects Jacksonville to release Julius Thomas this offseason.


maybe worth a bone?


Brandon Marshall too as it would save the Jets all 7.5 million of his cap number and he's in the last year of his deal.
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