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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 19473
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gore Whore 21 wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
Gore Whore 21 wrote:
I would like us to look at Robert Woods, Kenny Stills, Cordarrelle Patterson, and Markus Wheaton specifically.


FWIW I don't expect a single one of those guys to be as good as Williams or Davis, and not one of them can bring what Ross would bring. And there will be FA ILBs and OLBs to look at too. But really, I'm seeing this as a complete multi year rebuild. I want young guys that we can build around. I'd be looking to add a select FA or two in a couple of year when we've got a solid core and just want to fill in some holes.


I don't expect them to have the potential be better than a high first round pick either, but I expect that they would be able to upgrade our receiving core substantially. Robert Woods and Kenny Stills are both 24 years old (they both turn 25 in April), and Patterson is 25 (Turns 26 in March) and offers us an elite kick returner. These guys are all 'Young Guys' that could be key role players for this team for years to come. I don't expect any of these guys to come in and set the world on fire, but they are all very solid players that would certainly make the job of whomever we bring in at QB easier. We have a ton of cap space and should be trying to improve this awful roster in any way possible. Not every guy we bring in is going to be an all-world player, but that doesn't change the fact that we need to upgrade on what we currently have through every avenue we can.
\

We should be careful about improving it too much this year. Otherweise we might end up in that dreaded number 10 or so spot in the draft and miss out on the 2 or 3 best QBs coming out.
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AustrianNiner wrote:
In order to get Davis or Ross we'd need to trade down and that's highly questionable. Doubt either will be there at Round 2 and there is no way I'd go WR at #2. Recently watched Courtland Sutton quite a bit, maybe not as quick but a physical monster who definitely can make difficult catches, could be a decent option in round 2.

And as rudyZ pointed out, all nice and well if we've got a receiver for the deep balls when there is no QB to throw those kind of balls. So if we can't get an absolute elite WR right now there is still time, because the QB won't be here too. For now we should be looking to get somewhat competitive again imo.


Well in my fantasy plan we're picking up that QB next year. Given him a year or two to develop and Torrey will be 30 by then. That's why Ross is part of my fantasy plan. Look what Tyreek Hill has done for KC. By the time we get our QB and he develops a bit Torrey won't be able to do that any more.
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Gore Whore 21


Joined: 15 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
Gore Whore 21 wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
Gore Whore 21 wrote:
I would like us to look at Robert Woods, Kenny Stills, Cordarrelle Patterson, and Markus Wheaton specifically.


FWIW I don't expect a single one of those guys to be as good as Williams or Davis, and not one of them can bring what Ross would bring. And there will be FA ILBs and OLBs to look at too. But really, I'm seeing this as a complete multi year rebuild. I want young guys that we can build around. I'd be looking to add a select FA or two in a couple of year when we've got a solid core and just want to fill in some holes.


I don't expect them to have the potential be better than a high first round pick either, but I expect that they would be able to upgrade our receiving core substantially. Robert Woods and Kenny Stills are both 24 years old (they both turn 25 in April), and Patterson is 25 (Turns 26 in March) and offers us an elite kick returner. These guys are all 'Young Guys' that could be key role players for this team for years to come. I don't expect any of these guys to come in and set the world on fire, but they are all very solid players that would certainly make the job of whomever we bring in at QB easier. We have a ton of cap space and should be trying to improve this awful roster in any way possible. Not every guy we bring in is going to be an all-world player, but that doesn't change the fact that we need to upgrade on what we currently have through every avenue we can.



Give me Corey Davis, Torrey Smith, Cordarelle Patterson, and one of the guys we currently have (Patton, Smelter, Rogers, Kerley), and I think we'd be very solid for the future. The problem with the production we got from Smith since we signed him is that we expected him to be a #1, when he's really just a #2-2. I guess we wouldn't even need a guy like John Ross, because Torrey Smith can do a lot of what a guy like Ross could bring. But we really need that top receiver, the guy who will make the tough catches while being covered, the guy who will require safety help on top and still produce, and open things up for others. Then you have Smith, who can take the top off a defense with his deep speed, and we suddenly become very hard to defend. As long as we get a QB who can get the ball to these guys. I'd love Patterson, as you said, because he's an elite returner. Whatever he can add on offense is just a bonus. Screens, reverses, deep routes, just like we used Ted Ginn. I'm not really all that interested in Stills or Woods, because they don't really bring more to the table than what we already have. Sure, it would help pushing lesser players off the field, but wouldn't truly elevate our offense all that much. They're still just #2s, and we really need a #1.


I don't disagree, but right now, with the exception of Torrey Smith, we have a wide receiving core filled with guys that should be #4 or #5 receivers in the NFL. I don't think we should sign everyone mentioned, but if it was me in control and not taking the draft into account, I would try and sign one of either Woods or Stills and bring in Patterson. This way if we miss out on a receiver early in the draft or simply bypass one, we wont be totally inept at the position again. Multiple #2 WRs are better than one #2 guy and multiple #4/5 kind of guys.
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Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
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Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
Gore Whore 21 wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
Gore Whore 21 wrote:
I would like us to look at Robert Woods, Kenny Stills, Cordarrelle Patterson, and Markus Wheaton specifically.


FWIW I don't expect a single one of those guys to be as good as Williams or Davis, and not one of them can bring what Ross would bring. And there will be FA ILBs and OLBs to look at too. But really, I'm seeing this as a complete multi year rebuild. I want young guys that we can build around. I'd be looking to add a select FA or two in a couple of year when we've got a solid core and just want to fill in some holes.


I don't expect them to have the potential be better than a high first round pick either, but I expect that they would be able to upgrade our receiving core substantially. Robert Woods and Kenny Stills are both 24 years old (they both turn 25 in April), and Patterson is 25 (Turns 26 in March) and offers us an elite kick returner. These guys are all 'Young Guys' that could be key role players for this team for years to come. I don't expect any of these guys to come in and set the world on fire, but they are all very solid players that would certainly make the job of whomever we bring in at QB easier. We have a ton of cap space and should be trying to improve this awful roster in any way possible. Not every guy we bring in is going to be an all-world player, but that doesn't change the fact that we need to upgrade on what we currently have through every avenue we can.



Give me Corey Davis, Torrey Smith, Cordarelle Patterson, and one of the guys we currently have (Patton, Smelter, Rogers, Kerley), and I think we'd be very solid for the future. The problem with the production we got from Smith since we signed him is that we expected him to be a #1, when he's really just a #2-2. I guess we wouldn't even need a guy like John Ross, because Torrey Smith can do a lot of what a guy like Ross could bring. But we really need that top receiver, the guy who will make the tough catches while being covered, the guy who will require safety help on top and still produce, and open things up for others. Then you have Smith, who can take the top off a defense with his deep speed, and we suddenly become very hard to defend. As long as we get a QB who can get the ball to these guys. I'd love Patterson, as you said, because he's an elite returner. Whatever he can add on offense is just a bonus. Screens, reverses, deep routes, just like we used Ted Ginn. I'm not really all that interested in Stills or Woods, because they don't really bring more to the table than what we already have. Sure, it would help pushing lesser players off the field, but wouldn't truly elevate our offense all that much. They're still just #2s, and we really need a #1.


I suppose it depends on what you mean by #1 - I don't think that you need an elite number 1 type. I think that you can have quite a successful offense with 3 #2's or a low end 1 with a 2 and good slot guy. I think it dips too far into semantics I suppose, but I think prior year histories show that elite type #1s are not a requirement.
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AustrianNiner


Joined: 28 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
AustrianNiner wrote:
In order to get Davis or Ross we'd need to trade down and that's highly questionable. Doubt either will be there at Round 2 and there is no way I'd go WR at #2. Recently watched Courtland Sutton quite a bit, maybe not as quick but a physical monster who definitely can make difficult catches, could be a decent option in round 2.

And as rudyZ pointed out, all nice and well if we've got a receiver for the deep balls when there is no QB to throw those kind of balls. So if we can't get an absolute elite WR right now there is still time, because the QB won't be here too. For now we should be looking to get somewhat competitive again imo.


Well in my fantasy plan we're picking up that QB next year. Given him a year or two to develop and Torrey will be 30 by then. That's why Ross is part of my fantasy plan. Look what Tyreek Hill has done for KC. By the time we get our QB and he develops a bit Torrey won't be able to do that any more.


Obviously. I'm not overly confident Smith will suddenly start producing decent numbers from next season on anyway. Point is we (hopefully) get a franchise QB next draft and then we still have time to find that standout receiver, because as you also stated, the QB will still need some time to grow so we have time to build his attacking options aswell later. Wouldn't be opposed if Ross falls into our hands in the 2nd round but I'm not that convinced he is a can't-miss-guy so no damage there if we can't get him imo.

Your fantasy scenario would be great obviously but I can't see anyone falling in love with Trubisky that much unfortunately.
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AustrianNiner


Joined: 28 Nov 2016
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Location: Austria
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of Tyreek Hill: This guy has just declared:
https://www.dawgnation.com/football/watch-isaiah-mckenzie-scores-twice-in-first-quarter-sets-new-school-record

Perhaps not quite as quick but somewhat similar, maybe someone to look at on day 3.
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sbrown


Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 10565
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Recently watched Courtland Sutton quite a bit, maybe not as quick but a physical monster who definitely can make difficult catches, could be a decent option in round 2.


Very good plan B. He is similar to jeffrey and Brandon marshall. I like him in the 2nd round a lot.
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Fureys49ers


Joined: 31 Mar 2015
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Location: Sacramento, CA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of Jeffery he's a guy I would, if I held any sway whatsoever, go after hard. We have plenty of money and a dire need for a #1 WR. There are tons of slot guys in the draft to play Kerley's role and Torrey Smith would line up opposite him. Kerley to me is easily replaceable and I was quite disappointed with his reputation as KR/PR how little wiggle, open field ability and yards after catch he actually got. Get a young guy in here like Samuel form Ohio St in round 2, or even a mid round guy like Carlos Henderson to fill that slot role. At the bottom of our WR depth chart let our WRs we have now battle it out. There are a lot of mid round guys I wouldn't mind adding to that mix as well. But securing Jeffery combined with Smith I think gives us talent and a future there. Adding a ton of WRs to a team with a below average OL and no QB would be the making of this years Texans. Not a whole lot of production out of any of em.

I get no one is high on this years QB class but this time last year I thought worse of Wentz and Goff and they went 1 and 2. I'd be ok with Watson or Trubisky. Not at #2 but maybe move down and acquire a future 1 or 2 and get another 2 this year. Im not big on Kizer at all, besides being athletically gifted I see nothing that shows me he'd be a good QB.

Someone said they aren't high on this years ILB and OLB and to me that's baffling. At ILB there are no Patrick Willis' or Luke Kuechly's but holy hell there is depth. Foster, Cunningham, Davis, Beckwith, Walker are just guys who come to mind immediately not including later round guys like Munson and Riley. You'd be hard pressed to find a better draft for OLB/DE/pass rushers in any other draft as well. You could see 5 go in the first round and another 5 in the 2nd round. Of this class though I think two stand out the most, Garrett and Barnett. Not big on player conparisons but in my mind Garrett is Julius Peppers and Barnett is Terrell Suggs, both would be extremely welcomed additions to our terrible pass rush.

I agree this is not the year for a QB but let's address the other 2 most important qualities of an NFL team, protect the QB and get after the other teams. And please for the love of god throw some of that money around, who are we saving it for? No super star in their right mind would come here so I'm all for overpaying a little to get talent here. We need to show we are committed to winning and not being a franchise of turmoil. That only happens by taking the necessary steps to improve your team. The blue print has been laid out and followed many times before, let's get rid of Baalke because I'm pretty sure the blue print isn't up his $&@ where he spends most of his time.
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Fureys49ers


Joined: 31 Mar 2015
Posts: 796
Location: Sacramento, CA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being that this thread is titled free agents some ideas I have on spending our money. If he is cut from the Bills give Tyrod whatever he wants to be our stopgap, QB, future, his second chance, whatever you want to call it but get him here. Besides Cousins who I expect to get locked up in DC he's the best option out there. Don't want Romo, Glennon or Cutler. While I wouldn't be opposed to bringing Jimmy G here no way am I paying the rumored asking price and I don't know if what I've seen of him is all that impressive, reminds me of Matt Cassel. If Kaep wants to walk let him walk and if he doesn't want to let him walk, and Gabbert should start his car dealership already anyways. Bring Tyrod in and have a rookie, any rookie behind him. Do me a favor though Niners "brass and decision makers" don't waste a draft pick on someone if you are going to cut him before season even starts so another team can secure him i.e. last year. I'm even of the mindset bring Rex Ryan in as DC, he seemed a big Taylor supporter, with Taylor for some familiarity. Rex can't be as bad as hiring the leagues worst DC from the Browns. Let Ryan either crash and burn altogether, or remake his name here. Before is persona became bigger than his coaching skills he was a pretty good DC for some years, plus let's be honest he can't be any worse than what we got.

At C I would like to address in the draft but as others have pointed out there are no big names, some mid round guys but no thought of difference maker. Let's throw some money at Joe Hawley from Tampa, that man is nasty, and smart and would bring a much needed attitude adjustment to our softies, both in appearance and demeanor, up front. Maybe sign one of these aging OTs to push Trent Brown or replace him altogether till we can get a permanent fix. Andrew Whitworh comes to mind, Cinci will probably let him walk so they can start their young guys they've been grooming and he'll probably be looking for one last pay check before he hangs them up. Worked with Larry Allen back in the day. Resign Tiller and let Beadles, Garnett and Tiller battle it out for one more year, if we still are weak there address it next year.

At WR I'm pretty sure Alshon just wants security and a number 1 role and he can have two helpings of both here. If we can lure another too like Stills or Wolds than even better, no one on this team besides Smith, and barely, deserves to be anything higher than 4 anyways.

At OLB Jamie Collins already said if the money is right he'll stay in Cleveland, uh, we got that right kind of money you're looking for Jamie. If that doesn't work out Melvin Ingram from San Diego has intrigued me this year. He's slimmed down since when he entered the league, still relatively young and wouldn't have to leave the state. Plus with Brooks shown the door, maybe this year fellas, he can slide in opposite Lynch and get a nice little pay check to go with it.

Now I know some think ILB isn't dire and some do, I'm of the latter belief for as much as it pains me after these two injuries who knows what kind of Bowman we are getting back. We should have 3 behind him ready to go. Ray Ray is fine, sure, he can have one of those spots but let's draft another one and sign one. I'm so tired of seeing Wilhoite wear a niner jersey is actually physically upsets me at this point, Gerald Hodges...we've seen enough, real fast at getting to position and missing tackles or running right past plays. Kiko Alonzo is a RFA, let's see how deep Miamis purses are, or Lawrence Timmons, you're getting a little older and we hear Pittsburgh is ready to move one, be our Takeo Spikes for a bit? My personal favorite is AJ Klein as he wouldn't even cost all that much but has seen plenty of PT with Kuechlys injury and showed pretty well, come over and show what you can as a full time starter.

We had I think $80 million plus at the start of last FA and I think we spent damn near none of it and the cap is rumored to be going up double digits this upcoming year. All of these acquisitions are feasible...with a new GM that is.
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BUzzzard


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you guys feel about bringing Ian Williams back. I know he has been hurt, but in 2015 he was a beast. He also graded very near the top of all NT that year with his productivity.
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Geek


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BUzzzard wrote:
How do you guys feel about bringing Ian Williams back. I know he has been hurt, but in 2015 he was a beast. He also graded very near the top of all NT that year with his productivity.


I want to bring him back in a cheap deal but also grab someone like Poe or Brandon Williams. That and a pass rusher in the draft and this defense could be legit again.
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sbrown


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geek wrote:
BUzzzard wrote:
How do you guys feel about bringing Ian Williams back. I know he has been hurt, but in 2015 he was a beast. He also graded very near the top of all NT that year with his productivity.


I want to bring him back in a cheap deal but also grab someone like Poe or Brandon Williams. That and a pass rusher in the draft and this defense could be legit again.


I like brandon williams
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Forge


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BUzzzard wrote:
How do you guys feel about bringing Ian Williams back. I know he has been hurt, but in 2015 he was a beast. He also graded very near the top of all NT that year with his productivity.


I wouldn't treat him as a guarantee or anything, but yeah, he's got talent and plays well, he's just never on the field. There's a potential steal in a short term deal for him, but I'm certainly not holding my breath that he can stay healthy.
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BUzzzard


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
BUzzzard wrote:
How do you guys feel about bringing Ian Williams back. I know he has been hurt, but in 2015 he was a beast. He also graded very near the top of all NT that year with his productivity.


I wouldn't treat him as a guarantee or anything, but yeah, he's got talent and plays well, he's just never on the field. There's a potential steal in a short term deal for him, but I'm certainly not holding my breath that he can stay healthy.
Yah I feel the same way. You never know when a player is going to come across a stretch of play where they remain healthy.
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BUzzzard


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am really hoping that we get the chance to sign T.J. Lang. He would really help out our O-Line. I also want Kamar Aiken, solid receiver, good possession guy over the middle, and cheap.
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