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Sam Bradford Traded to Vikings
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gopherwrestler


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This year, I will say I understand why he bailed out sometimes. Guy got nailed every drive hanging in there throwing the ball. Have to just get rid of it sometimes and live to fight another day.

I don't know much about his history with that with the Eagles, but when he was on the Rams it was much of the same situation.
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SteelKing728


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gopherwrestler wrote:
This year, I will say I understand why he bailed out sometimes. Guy got nailed every drive hanging in there throwing the ball. Have to just get rid of it sometimes and live to fight another day.

I don't know much about his history with that with the Eagles, but when he was on the Rams it was much of the same situation.


Eagles fans mentioned it as well. They weren't very high on him from what I've read.

Eh. He's probably our starting QB next year, unless he gets injured, which he has a history of.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:
gopherwrestler wrote:
This year, I will say I understand why he bailed out sometimes. Guy got nailed every drive hanging in there throwing the ball. Have to just get rid of it sometimes and live to fight another day.

I don't know much about his history with that with the Eagles, but when he was on the Rams it was much of the same situation.


Eagles fans mentioned it as well. They weren't very high on him from what I've read.

Eh. He's probably our starting QB next year, unless he gets injured, which he has a history of.

He's does have a history of it but he's been healthy the last two years despite being battered.
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SemperFeist


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

milanb wrote:
SemperFeist wrote:
milanb wrote:
He's also done very little to dispel his reputation for not showing a lot of leadership on the field.


Neutral

Like what?


I don't know...

When your team is going through a 2-8 stretch, you would like to be able to point to just one game where your QB showed signs of rallying the team and willing them to victory.

But it's more than that. I remember in the middle of season, when the Vikings were still 5-3 or something, Chris Schultz (who is a former Dallas Cowboys OL and the NFL analyst on TSN, the major Canadian sports channel) was showing Vikings highlights with lots of video clips of Bradford bailing out of the pocket instead of taking a hit to deliver the ball. Basically Schultz was saying: while the Vikings had huge OL problems, attitude and motivation are a huge part of OL play, and Bradford is not the sort of guy that inspires offensive linemen to give everything they have on every play. It's why the Rams and Eagles gave up on him.

So....in order for the offensive line to get motivated, and have the proper attitude, they need to watch their quarterback stand in the pocket and take hit after hit? Chris Schultz sounds like real genius.

"Hey! Hey! You need to stop bailing out of the pocket when the guys we let through are going to hit you, it's disheartening! You need to stand and take the hit so that it can motivate us to do our jobs!"

And while there were times that Bradford bailed from the pocket, there were also many times were he did stand tall and deliver the throw while taking a hit. Sure as hell didn't seem to motivate the offensive line any.
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SemperFeist


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:
gopherwrestler wrote:
This year, I will say I understand why he bailed out sometimes. Guy got nailed every drive hanging in there throwing the ball. Have to just get rid of it sometimes and live to fight another day.

I don't know much about his history with that with the Eagles, but when he was on the Rams it was much of the same situation.


Eagles fans mentioned it as well. They weren't very high on him from what I've read.

Eh. He's probably our starting QB next year, unless he gets injured, which he has a history of.

He's does have a history of it but he's been healthy the last two years despite being battered.

Other than the ACL injury, what other injury history does he have?
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In 2009, Bradford underwent shoulder surgery for his A/C joint that caused him to miss 10 games;
In 2010, Bradford reinjured his shoulder and missed another three games;
In 2011, Bradford suffered a high ankle sprain that caused him to miss five games;
In 2013, Bradford tore his ACL in week seven of the NFL season, ending his year;
In 2014, Bradford tore that same ACL in week three of the preseason.
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milanb


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SemperFeist wrote:


"Hey! Hey! You need to stop bailing out of the pocket when the guys we let through are going to hit you, it's disheartening! You need to stand and take the hit so that it can motivate us to do our jobs!"



Bradford's the QB. He's supposed to be the leader out there. No one should have to tell him that.

It wasn't until the Colts game in Week 15 that I became convinced that Bradford was part of the problem.

Just watching Andrew Luck, who had the same sort of OL problems this year, take some big hits in order to deliver the ball down the field, and watching his crappy OL respond by raising their own level of play against one of the league's best pass rushes... then watching Bradford do nothing all day to rally the players around him, in a game where the Vikings were fighting for a playoff spot. It was all very illuminating.
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SemperFeist


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Standing in the pocket and taking hits has certainly rallied the Colts! I mean, they are going to be a force to reckon with in the playo... oh wait.

Well, last year, taking all of those hits really helped Luck rally the Colts and led them to succe...oh wait.

Taking hit, after hit, after hit does one thing, and one thing only. It's gets your quarterback hurt.


The Vikings allowed the 7th most hits on their QB. By your standard, Bradford is one of the best leaders in the NFL.
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milanb


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SemperFeist wrote:
Standing in the pocket and taking hits has certainly rallied the Colts! I mean, they are going to be a force to reckon with in the playo... oh wait.



Like I said, the Colts OL responded by playing better and providing better pass protection. In the end, Luck didn't get banged around much more than Bradford.

Remember, going into the game the Colts had the same sort of question marks surrounding their OL as the Vikings did, and the general consensus was that Luck was going to get pummeled by the Vikings pass rush. (I believe the Vikings were 6 point favourites or something).

Football's a team sport, and it's a game of emotion, and the importance of leadership should not be underestimated.
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SemperFeist


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting knocked around isn't leadership.

Luck had a great game against the Vikings, because he only took 3 hits with 0 sacks. Bradford had a poor game because he was hit 7 times and sacked 5 times.

Getting hit didn't motivate Luck's linemen to block better. Just like it didn't motivate them against Houston the week before, or Oakland the week after. If anything motivated the Colts's offensive line is was that they were trying to prove that they belonged on the field after having one of their worst games of the year the week before.

When Aaron Rodgers, or Russell Wilson bails from the pocket, are they showing less leadership than if they stood tall and took a hit? Of course not. Because the idea of a quarterback getting hitting is somehow a greater showing of leadership is simply asinine.
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Purplexing


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bridgewater was injured in pre-season.
Heinicke, too!

Hill was kept on the roster to be an emergency backup, only, so the Vikings sought a full time starter, and thus traded for Bradford.

Hill backs up Bradford.

Suppose Bradford takes a big hit instead of 'bailing out'. Now what happens? Hill goes in for at least a few games, if not several, or possibly for the rest of the season?

IMO, the Vikings coaches may have told Bradford to 'preserve himself' because he was the last hope of getting to the playoffs in 2016.

The more I read this thread, the more I get the impression some fans don't want Bradford to eventually replace TB, and so they are grasping for straws to downplay his season and his value to the Vikings going forward.

I am a fan of the team, not individual players. Whoever is the best player for a position should be playing, not a 'sentimental choice'.
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disaacs


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purplexing wrote:
The more I read this thread, the more I get the impression some fans don't want Bradford to eventually replace TB, and so they are grasping for straws to downplay his season and his value to the Vikings going forward.

I am a fan of the team, not individual players. Whoever is the best player for a position should be playing, not a 'sentimental choice'.


In my case, it's not that I don't want Bradford to eventually replace Teddy, but I think, if healthy, Teddy's going to be the better QB down the road. In my mind, he's a better QB than Sam was in his first 2 years...and up until this injury, far healthier.

Sentimentality has nothing to do with it.
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Purplexing


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

disaacs wrote:
Purplexing wrote:
The more I read this thread, the more I get the impression some fans don't want Bradford to eventually replace TB, and so they are grasping for straws to downplay his season and his value to the Vikings going forward.

I am a fan of the team, not individual players. Whoever is the best player for a position should be playing, not a 'sentimental choice'.


In my case, it's not that I don't want Bradford to eventually replace Teddy, but I think, if healthy, Teddy's going to be the better QB down the road. In my mind, he's a better QB than Sam was in his first 2 years...and up until this injury, far healthier.

Sentimentality has nothing to do with it.


Um, ok. Not sentimentality. Mental clarity and prognostication skills?

This is what I get from your statement:

Bradford is currently healthy. He has been injured in the past, multiple times.

Bridgewater is currently not healthy. He may become healthy in the future. If so, he is less likely to be injured in the future than Bradford.

The above ignores the number of years each QB has been in the NFL (3, 7). I'd expect Bradford to have been injured at least twice as often as TB, all other things being equal. Backup QBs have great value to an NFL team because of the old cliche; 'the starter is likely to be injured, so you need a good backup'.

Further, it implies fewer injuries to date for TB means fewer or no injuries in his future. And it seems to also imply more prior injuries for SB implies more injuries in his future.

http://www.nfl.com/player/teddybridgewater/2543465/careerstats
... a 3 year career

http://www.nfl.com/player/sambradford/497095/careerstats
... a 7 year career

Finally, you used the first two years comparison to imply a linear progression of TBs development would yield a better QB in the future than Bradford is now. There is no reason to believe such for any QB. Also, TB QB ratings were 85.2 and 88.7 over his first two seasons. I wouldn't extrapolate improvement based on a 3.5 point improvement; i.e. it may be stat variation; i.e. stats won't remain the same each year, so 'ups' could be followed by 'downs', year after year.

You have a right to state your opinion on this venue.

But I wouldn't say your conclusion is supported by a 'logical' construction. I quickly came up with 'sentimentality' as a term to describe opinions that TB would eventually be a better QB than he was, and become a better QB than Bradford recently demonstrated with over 500 pass attempts. Is there a better term, such as optimism, hope, or ESP? Smile
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SteelKing728


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

disaacs wrote:
Purplexing wrote:
The more I read this thread, the more I get the impression some fans don't want Bradford to eventually replace TB, and so they are grasping for straws to downplay his season and his value to the Vikings going forward.

I am a fan of the team, not individual players. Whoever is the best player for a position should be playing, not a 'sentimental choice'.


In my case, it's not that I don't want Bradford to eventually replace Teddy, but I think, if healthy, Teddy's going to be the better QB down the road. In my mind, he's a better QB than Sam was in his first 2 years...and up until this injury, far healthier.

Sentimentality has nothing to do with it.


Same, I think Teddy will be/would have been better if he was healthy.

And while I clump both he and Bradford into the same group of QBs, it's Bridgewater who I think has the higher potential.

I'm a team first fan too though, and I get the feeling that regardless of TB's health, Sam is "our guy".
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milanb


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SemperFeist wrote:
Getting knocked around isn't leadership.

Luck had a great game against the Vikings, because he only took 3 hits with 0 sacks. Bradford had a poor game because he was hit 7 times and sacked 5 times.

Getting hit didn't motivate Luck's linemen to block better. Just like it didn't motivate them against Houston the week before, or Oakland the week after. If anything motivated the Colts's offensive line is was that they were trying to prove that they belonged on the field after having one of their worst games of the year the week before.

When Aaron Rodgers, or Russell Wilson bails from the pocket, are they showing less leadership than if they stood tall and took a hit? Of course not. Because the idea of a quarterback getting hitting is somehow a greater showing of leadership is simply asinine.



I'm not saying that the QB should just stand there and get killed, no matter what. But taking a hit to deliver the ball is part of playing the position. Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson will step out of the pocket to extend the play, but they also show a very high
level of leadership and commitment on the field, including taking a big hit when necessary. That's why they're both Super Bowl Winners.

My point is: the QB has to be the leader on the field. He cannot be the one mailing it in.
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