FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

We are transitioning to a new forum software platform. Your current password will not work after August 12th. Update the email in your profile so you are not locked out. Click here for more information.

Jordan Willis, DE, Kansas State
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL Draft
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 69128
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

indigo_rex wrote:
Garrett, Willis, Thomas, and Watt emerged as the top Edges in the draft - Pro Days pending. All should be top-20 picks.


Let's not overreact. No reason to take Willis or Watt before the 37th pick.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 10168
Location: Indianapolis
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reamer wrote:
Talented player. Always thought he was an explosive straight-line athlete. I just worry he's too linear. Despite great testing numbers and a good 3-cone, I still think he lacks balance on the field. If he can work on his flexibility and suddenness, he could be a great player.


Too often I saw him end up on the ground. For example:

https://gfycat.com/AchingBriefAmethystinepython


Seems to struggle to disengage, and doesn't always bend well off the edge:

https://gfycat.com/MetallicBriskAnnashummingbird


I totally agree on the straight line speed. The 3-cone shows he could change directions well but the game film shows him shooting upfield and way past a QB. Needs strength and technique to bend around the edge.
_________________

"You build with draft choices. You find people with talents adaptable to your plans and then you teach them to do things the way we do them." - Chuck Noll
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Calvert28


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 21620
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
indigo_rex wrote:
Garrett, Willis, Thomas, and Watt emerged as the top Edges in the draft - Pro Days pending. All should be top-20 picks.


Let's not overreact. No reason to take Willis or Watt before the 37th pick.


I agree. Some of these guys posting these insane numbers don't really look it on the field. Willis for example may have a great 40. But doesn't look to have great burst off the ball.
_________________
GeneralDissaray wrote:
mozwanted wrote:
I don't agree with the pick.Bad teams pick rb's with a top 5 pick.
Moz, bad teams pick in the top 5.That's the way the draft works.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dhunt2402


Moderator
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 26047
Location: The District
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
indigo_rex wrote:
Garrett, Willis, Thomas, and Watt emerged as the top Edges in the draft - Pro Days pending. All should be top-20 picks.


Let's not overreact. No reason to take Willis or Watt before the 37th pick.


Wink
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chrissooner49er


Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 5084
Location: Tulsa, OK
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would take Watt at the 34th pick...perhaps Willis. Cool
_________________
fa·nat·ic (f-ntk) A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause.
Draftday1:Garrett/Thomas/Barnett trade:McCaffrey,Cunningham,Watt,Davis 2-Awuzie,Engram,Kupp,Mixon,Westbrook 3-Switzer,Godwin,Perine,JordanEvans,Anzalone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
reamer


Joined: 15 Feb 2010
Posts: 487
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted this on my team's messageboard, but I figured I'd copy it here. Disclaimer: I actually like Willis a lot, so don't get too worked up if you disagree with my analysis (although I'm open to discussion). He definitely has potential, but I'll try to outline some of my concerns. His play speed never matches his timed speed, and it usually comes down to indecision. I think with proper coaching, he can be a pro bowl caliber player; he's simply not there yet, however, which is why I have a tough time giving him anything better than mid-late 2nd round grade.

Draftbreakdown just put up a new cut of one of his games, so here are some thoughts. You can see the burst off the edge, but also some troubling tendencies with his technique. I made a few gifs to show examples of my worries. On the plus side, he's young and still learning. His coaches love him, so I have no doubt he'll do whatever's asked of him at the next level. Anyway, let's dive in.


His pursuit in the open field looks tentative. He has the speed to get out there and blow up this play, but as is often the case, he's hesitant and overly careful. I like the discipline to play the run first, but once he realized it's a pass and moved toward the flat, I don't know why he started to change his angle and break down to make the tackle before he was in range. He ends up leaning and reaching for the runner, and while he makes the tackle, they give up the first down. Is he overthinking? He has all the tools to make a great play. This might sound harsh, but a more decisive player with lesser speed will make a tackle for no gain in this scenario.

https://gfycat.com/LeanAgonizingColt


This next clip is so disheartening to watch. He labors to disengage. It's helpful to slow the clip down to half speed (click on the gear and adjust speed). He gets a good jump on the snap, and is a full step farther upfield than his linemates. He then gets his hands up, but because of his odd stance he has no power from his lower half in his punch. Instead of extending, and controlling, he just makes contact and keeps running the arc. Notice how many steps he takes after contact: 5 - 6 steps before he ducks under the block and makes his way to the quarterback. By the time he's in the backfield, the QB (Mahomes) has plenty of time to step up and make the throw.

https://gfycat.com/AgreeableFaithfulChevrotain


Why am I being so nitpicky? Compare his rush to Derek Barnett working against Cam Robinson, who is a legitimate 1st round pick and should be a starting tackle for a long time in the league. Watch him bend, dip and rip, and keep his feet moving through contact. He takes 3 steps from first contact to beating the block, and then he flattens his angle and is now running parallel to the line of scrimmage toward the quarterback, reducing the distance he needs to cover for the sack.

https://gfycat.com/MixedAgreeableHornbill


Another rush, another struggle to disengage. With his testing numbers, he should be threatening the edge a lot harder, and then he should have the quickness and explosion to make a hard inside move. Instead, it's like he's velcroed to the OT. His hands and feet don't work in sync. He doesn't gather his base before contact. He just reaches with his hands and gets pushed backward. His feet go nearly dead on contact. He needs to get low, extend his arms, and then violently come back the other way on this move.

https://gfycat.com/BothMagnificentEwe


Note: I don't care if players make or don't make the play in college football. I do care, however, if they show transferrable traits. Despite all of his impressive speed, agility testing, and jumping prowess, Willis is a mess on the field who takes himself out of the play more than the blocker does. With the right coach, he can be an absolute force, but he's 1 - 2 years away from a breakout season. My guess is that he will be a long-term understudy, not an instant super star like his numbers might indicate.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
indigo_rex


Joined: 03 Mar 2016
Posts: 211
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reamer wrote:
I posted this on my team's messageboard, but I figured I'd copy it here. Disclaimer: I actually like Willis a lot, so don't get too worked up if you disagree with my analysis (although I'm open to discussion). He definitely has potential, but I'll try to outline some of my concerns. His play speed never matches his timed speed, and it usually comes down to indecision. I think with proper coaching, he can be a pro bowl caliber player; he's simply not there yet, however, which is why I have a tough time giving him anything better than mid-late 2nd round grade.

Draftbreakdown just put up a new cut of one of his games, so here are some thoughts. You can see the burst off the edge, but also some troubling tendencies with his technique. I made a few gifs to show examples of my worries. On the plus side, he's young and still learning. His coaches love him, so I have no doubt he'll do whatever's asked of him at the next level. Anyway, let's dive in.


His pursuit in the open field looks tentative. He has the speed to get out there and blow up this play, but as is often the case, he's hesitant and overly careful. I like the discipline to play the run first, but once he realized it's a pass and moved toward the flat, I don't know why he started to change his angle and break down to make the tackle before he was in range. He ends up leaning and reaching for the runner, and while he makes the tackle, they give up the first down. Is he overthinking? He has all the tools to make a great play. This might sound harsh, but a more decisive player with lesser speed will make a tackle for no gain in this scenario.

https://gfycat.com/LeanAgonizingColt


This next clip is so disheartening to watch. He labors to disengage. It's helpful to slow the clip down to half speed (click on the gear and adjust speed). He gets a good jump on the snap, and is a full step farther upfield than his linemates. He then gets his hands up, but because of his odd stance he has no power from his lower half in his punch. Instead of extending, and controlling, he just makes contact and keeps running the arc. Notice how many steps he takes after contact: 5 - 6 steps before he ducks under the block and makes his way to the quarterback. By the time he's in the backfield, the QB (Mahomes) has plenty of time to step up and make the throw.

https://gfycat.com/AgreeableFaithfulChevrotain


Why am I being so nitpicky? Compare his rush to Derek Barnett working against Cam Robinson, who is a legitimate 1st round pick and should be a starting tackle for a long time in the league. Watch him bend, dip and rip, and keep his feet moving through contact. He takes 3 steps from first contact to beating the block, and then he flattens his angle and is now running parallel to the line of scrimmage toward the quarterback, reducing the distance he needs to cover for the sack.

https://gfycat.com/MixedAgreeableHornbill


Another rush, another struggle to disengage. With his testing numbers, he should be threatening the edge a lot harder, and then he should have the quickness and explosion to make a hard inside move. Instead, it's like he's velcroed to the OT. His hands and feet don't work in sync. He doesn't gather his base before contact. He just reaches with his hands and gets pushed backward. His feet go nearly dead on contact. He needs to get low, extend his arms, and then violently come back the other way on this move.

https://gfycat.com/BothMagnificentEwe


Note: I don't care if players make or don't make the play in college football. I do care, however, if they show transferrable traits. Despite all of his impressive speed, agility testing, and jumping prowess, Willis is a mess on the field who takes himself out of the play more than the blocker does. With the right coach, he can be an absolute force, but he's 1 - 2 years away from a breakout season. My guess is that he will be a long-term understudy, not an instant super star like his numbers might indicate.


But, very few Edges make immediate, high-level impacts. For every Von Miller or Joey Bosa there are two or three JJ Watts, Khalil Macks, or Vic Beasleys. I just don't see that as a serious knock. I also think it's harder to predict which will have immediate impacts vs impact in year 2. From the 2015 Draft alone, we have multiple players who did little as rookies then put up 10+ sacks in year 2.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
reamer


Joined: 15 Feb 2010
Posts: 487
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

indigo_rex wrote:
But, very few Edges make immediate, high-level impacts. For every Von Miller or Joey Bosa there are two or three JJ Watts, Khalil Macks, or Vic Beasleys. I just don't see that as a serious knock. I also think it's harder to predict which will have immediate impacts vs impact in year 2. From the 2015 Draft alone, we have multiple players who did little as rookies then put up 10+ sacks in year 2.


Fair point. Where would you take Willis, then? Testing numbers are fantastic. Production was there senior year. Yet he's not getting the same hype as the other top guys. I think he's regarded as 2nd - 3rd rounder for good reason.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
indigo_rex


Joined: 03 Mar 2016
Posts: 211
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reamer wrote:
indigo_rex wrote:
But, very few Edges make immediate, high-level impacts. For every Von Miller or Joey Bosa there are two or three JJ Watts, Khalil Macks, or Vic Beasleys. I just don't see that as a serious knock. I also think it's harder to predict which will have immediate impacts vs impact in year 2. From the 2015 Draft alone, we have multiple players who did little as rookies then put up 10+ sacks in year 2.


Fair point. Where would you take Willis, then? Testing numbers are fantastic. Production was there senior year. Yet he's not getting the same hype as the other top guys. I think he's regarded as 2nd - 3rd rounder for good reason.


As a Dolphins fan, he's my top choice at 22, but I don't think he'll be available.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 69128
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reamer wrote:
This next clip is so disheartening to watch. He labors to disengage. It's helpful to slow the clip down to half speed (click on the gear and adjust speed). He gets a good jump on the snap, and is a full step farther upfield than his linemates. He then gets his hands up, but because of his odd stance he has no power from his lower half in his punch. Instead of extending, and controlling, he just makes contact and keeps running the arc. Notice how many steps he takes after contact: 5 - 6 steps before he ducks under the block and makes his way to the quarterback. By the time he's in the backfield, the QB (Mahomes) has plenty of time to step up and make the throw.

https://gfycat.com/AgreeableFaithfulChevrotain


Why am I being so nitpicky? Compare his rush to Derek Barnett working against Cam Robinson, who is a legitimate 1st round pick and should be a starting tackle for a long time in the league. Watch him bend, dip and rip, and keep his feet moving through contact. He takes 3 steps from first contact to beating the block, and then he flattens his angle and is now running parallel to the line of scrimmage toward the quarterback, reducing the distance he needs to cover for the sack.

https://gfycat.com/MixedAgreeableHornbill


This isn't a fair comparison. Cam Robinson might be a first round pick, but he did a far worse job than the TTU RT on that play. He gave Barnett a soft corner after he was beaten basically off the snap. If you look at the number of steps each edge rusher takes once they get to the OT's hips, there isn't much of a difference.

Quote:
Another rush, another struggle to disengage. With his testing numbers, he should be threatening the edge a lot harder, and then he should have the quickness and explosion to make a hard inside move. Instead, it's like he's velcroed to the OT. His hands and feet don't work in sync. He doesn't gather his base before contact. He just reaches with his hands and gets pushed backward. His feet go nearly dead on contact. He needs to get low, extend his arms, and then violently come back the other way on this move.

https://gfycat.com/BothMagnificentEwe


He doesn't have an inside move at this stage. He needs to develop an inside counter. That is a complaint for me. However, my big complaint on this play is that he didn't convert speed to power. He had him if he did. Willis can be an absolutely devastating edge rusher if he learns to convert speed to power.

On this play, if he bursts off the ball, plants, jars the OT with his punch, and then clubs inside, that OT ends up on the ground.

Personally, I think he can learn these things at the NFL level. Bill Snyder has talked up how coachable he is. Get him in the NFL, develop his rush attacks (his rush attacks weren't complex at the college level), and teach him how to dominate OTs once he gets them on their heels. He should be fine.

Personally, I wouldn't pass on a guy because I have to develop him a bit.(unless there's an equally or more talented guy available whom I don't have to develop)
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
indigo_rex


Joined: 03 Mar 2016
Posts: 211
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a Twitter account, and if anyone interacts with Zach Whitman (3sigmaathlete), he had Jordan Willis' 10-YS as 1.70. I believe it should be 1.54. Impressive that he updated everything so quickly, and this is noy meant to disparage his work at all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL Draft All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group