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757-NINER


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
Forge wrote:
Anyone watch any Jerome Lane? Really like him as a late round sleeper with upside at receiver. 6'3", 220. Only been playing wide receiver the last 3 years (originally started school as a linebacker), but I really think that there's a lot to like. Obviously, being new to the position, there's a ton of rawness and things that need to be improved, and he's not going to light a fire at the combine with his speed but if he's in the mid 4.5's, I like what a team could get in 2-3 years by taking him.

Also looking at Javancy Jones. Looked good at the shrine game...wondering if he could slide into an ILB role at the next level. With the mid to late rounds of inside linebackers being pretty sparse, looking for some out of the box type thinking. He's got good size to play the position at 240+.


How about Jamal Adams as a new age LB? He's one of the hardest hitters I watched all year. Can obviously run sideline to sideline and cover receivers too. Too good at S, or too small for LB? OK, how about Obi Melifonwu? I don't know anything about him except that he's a decently rated SS and at 6'3" and 220 does have the size to be a modern age LB.


I'm a big Melifonwu fan but strictly as a safety. Big, rangy, and can move extremely well for his size. He's not overly physical so I wouldn't suggest him as some hybrid LB role but maybe on passing down, he could maybe play closer to the box.
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757-NINER


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
No, it is true. When we went to dime packages, one of them at times would come off, usually Willis.


Yeah, I mis-read his quote. I thought he said on most passing downs, which would mainly be nickel situations
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AustrianNiner


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of that Mock Draft, he has us taking EDGE Carroll Phillips in the 3rd and RB Elijah Hood(over Kareem Hunt) in the 4th, not seen either mentioned so far, can anyone say something about them?
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I absolutely hate the discrepancy between Trubisky's rankings and his projections in mock drafts. Jeremiah has him as his 31st ranked prospect, yet still mocks him to us. I know QBs are more important, and I know they take the QB-bias into consideration when doing these mock drafts, but I still hate that. If we were talking 10 spots, okay, I get it. But we're talking about a borderline first round talent, in a vacuum, being drafted at #2. That thought just horrifies me. And I feel he's being generous with 31. I feel like mocking us Trubisky is really just a lazy intellectual exercise. We don't have a QB, therefore we must draft a QB. Nevermind that it couldn't really have been a front office source, since we practically didn't have a front office, when these guys started doing mocks. So I really won't buy any "we like Trubisky at 2" until at least after the pro days. Until then, I call BS on all these mocks.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

48 1/2ers wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
48 1/2ers wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
Fureys49ers wrote:
^ I feel ya on the ILB waste land in the middle rounds Forge, it's a little disappointing actually. But there are a couple I really like Reddick being the obvious one but I think after the combine he'll easily be 2nd round pick after what he showed at the Senior Bowl. The ILB I really like is Anthony Walker but after Foster, Cunningham (who I'm not big on), Reddick I think he's the next best and will be gone by the middle of the 3rd. I like the talent Anzalone has and his aggressive demeanor but as you mentioned there's the injuries. Riley I like a lot for his athleticism, the way he attacks the LOS and shoots gaps with efficiency tells me he has very good instincts. His game has never been taking on OL but rather flowing through traffic and using his athleticism much like Reddick showed at the Senior Bowl so I think he'll be fine plus I think he could play on passing downs. I'm actually lowest on Beckwith because I too see a guy who doesn't have great instincts, nothing special athletically and doesn't really have any explosion when tackling.

I wasn't big on Fuller until he Senior Bowl actually, he showed a good anchor, nice hand placement and the footwork and strength to play at the next level during practice and actually worked his way into the 2nd level nicely during 11 on 11's and the game. Toth has always been my sleeper at C and after Orlovsky my favorite.

Kupp could be gone by our 3rd but I'm holding out hope. Like Fords tools he brings with him a lot and my dark horse at WR is Chad Hansen. Everytime I watch him I see a player who can be very effective in the NFL. Has good size and if he tests like I think he will at the combine his stock should see a big boost as teams go back and watch the tape.


I just noticed something watching the SB and checked combine numbers. Sure enough - all three of Atlanta's LBs ran sub-4.6 at the combine. I don't see a single ILB this year who is expected to crack 4.6 and I think most won't crack 4.7. Sure there's room for a highly instinctive run stuffing type of LB. But in the pass happy NFL today I really think you need speed at the ILB position. That's why some of those 220 pound hybrid types are working their way into LB positions on passing downs.

Foster ran a 4.64 at Bama when they did their own pre season pro day thing.


Hand held times are virtually always faster than the electronic timers, often by a tenth or more. That time would likely translate to a combine 4.75.

Not necessarily true, but reguardless they used electronic timers at the Spring Testing.

In the the 2015 Spring Testing for Alabama Kenyan Drake ran a 4.44, in the combine he ran a 4.45. Derrick Henry a 4.50 and at the combine a 4.54. Not too far off. Tim Williams ran a 4.77 if they wanted to cheat the numbers why wouldnt they with him?


Well if they use the same technology as the combine, then great. He should meet or beat that time at the combine. I just know that pro days are almost universally faster than combine times.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
Forge wrote:
Anyone watch any Jerome Lane? Really like him as a late round sleeper with upside at receiver. 6'3", 220. Only been playing wide receiver the last 3 years (originally started school as a linebacker), but I really think that there's a lot to like. Obviously, being new to the position, there's a ton of rawness and things that need to be improved, and he's not going to light a fire at the combine with his speed but if he's in the mid 4.5's, I like what a team could get in 2-3 years by taking him.

Also looking at Javancy Jones. Looked good at the shrine game...wondering if he could slide into an ILB role at the next level. With the mid to late rounds of inside linebackers being pretty sparse, looking for some out of the box type thinking. He's got good size to play the position at 240+.


How about Jamal Adams as a new age LB? He's one of the hardest hitters I watched all year. Can obviously run sideline to sideline and cover receivers too. Too good at S, or too small for LB? OK, how about Obi Melifonwu? I don't know anything about him except that he's a decently rated SS and at 6'3" and 220 does have the size to be a modern age LB.


Adams has too much potential at safety in my opinion. I'd hate to convert and project a guy that I already see as a pretty solid upside play at safety with a good floor.

Obi...I don't know. May be too soft to play linebacker. He's not afraid of contact, but he seldom initiates the contact and drives in. He's not a guy that's going to stand up someone, which is something I think you definitely need at the ILB spot.


I know, but you asked for out of the box. I even looked at guys listed as OLB or "small" DEs. I didn't really see anyone that stood out to me.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
Matt Miller has us taking Trubisky at 2 in his newest mock drafts. If there is one draft guy / mock draft to watch in the case of us, it's going to be Miller, so I would keep an eye on his from now until then. Generally speaking, I find Miller to be a joke, but for some reason, he has probably been the most reliable national media draft guy for the 49ers the past few years. I don't know if the FO just likes him or if he has a really good friend working for us or what.


Maybe he was buddies with Baalke.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
I absolutely hate the discrepancy between Trubisky's rankings and his projections in mock drafts. Jeremiah has him as his 31st ranked prospect, yet still mocks him to us. I know QBs are more important, and I know they take the QB-bias into consideration when doing these mock drafts, but I still hate that. If we were talking 10 spots, okay, I get it. But we're talking about a borderline first round talent, in a vacuum, being drafted at #2. That thought just horrifies me. And I feel he's being generous with 31. I feel like mocking us Trubisky is really just a lazy intellectual exercise. We don't have a QB, therefore we must draft a QB. Nevermind that it couldn't really have been a front office source, since we practically didn't have a front office, when these guys started doing mocks. So I really won't buy any "we like Trubisky at 2" until at least after the pro days. Until then, I call BS on all these mocks.


It's easier if you stop thinking about is a "QB-bias" and just accept that "positional value" is a real thing and that QBs have the highest positional value of any position - and by a whole lot. Centers and guards don't often go in the first round. It's not because there aren't any good ones out there. It's because the positional value of a C or G is just so much lower than other positions that the 3rd or 4th best OT or WR is often valued higher than the best C or G.
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Forge


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
Forge wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
Forge wrote:
Anyone watch any Jerome Lane? Really like him as a late round sleeper with upside at receiver. 6'3", 220. Only been playing wide receiver the last 3 years (originally started school as a linebacker), but I really think that there's a lot to like. Obviously, being new to the position, there's a ton of rawness and things that need to be improved, and he's not going to light a fire at the combine with his speed but if he's in the mid 4.5's, I like what a team could get in 2-3 years by taking him.

Also looking at Javancy Jones. Looked good at the shrine game...wondering if he could slide into an ILB role at the next level. With the mid to late rounds of inside linebackers being pretty sparse, looking for some out of the box type thinking. He's got good size to play the position at 240+.


How about Jamal Adams as a new age LB? He's one of the hardest hitters I watched all year. Can obviously run sideline to sideline and cover receivers too. Too good at S, or too small for LB? OK, how about Obi Melifonwu? I don't know anything about him except that he's a decently rated SS and at 6'3" and 220 does have the size to be a modern age LB.


Adams has too much potential at safety in my opinion. I'd hate to convert and project a guy that I already see as a pretty solid upside play at safety with a good floor.

Obi...I don't know. May be too soft to play linebacker. He's not afraid of contact, but he seldom initiates the contact and drives in. He's not a guy that's going to stand up someone, which is something I think you definitely need at the ILB spot.


I know, but you asked for out of the box. I even looked at guys listed as OLB or "small" DEs. I didn't really see anyone that stood out to me.


Yeah, the undersized OLB/DE is where I got Jones from. That's what he played at Jackson, I believe. This interior linebacker class is just not great unfortunately. Not a lot of potential projects either. I know some people like Riley, but I still see him as more of a 4-3 olb. This is one of the reasons that Foster is really intriguing in the first. I think if we don't go that route, may be better just to bandaid the position through free agency.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
I absolutely hate the discrepancy between Trubisky's rankings and his projections in mock drafts. Jeremiah has him as his 31st ranked prospect, yet still mocks him to us. I know QBs are more important, and I know they take the QB-bias into consideration when doing these mock drafts, but I still hate that. If we were talking 10 spots, okay, I get it. But we're talking about a borderline first round talent, in a vacuum, being drafted at #2. That thought just horrifies me. And I feel he's being generous with 31. I feel like mocking us Trubisky is really just a lazy intellectual exercise. We don't have a QB, therefore we must draft a QB. Nevermind that it couldn't really have been a front office source, since we practically didn't have a front office, when these guys started doing mocks. So I really won't buy any "we like Trubisky at 2" until at least after the pro days. Until then, I call BS on all these mocks.


Yep. So far, from what I can tell, Kiper is the highest on Trubisky (and he seems to really, really like him). I think he had him at 16. McShay had him at between 28-31, I think, and a second round grade on him overall.

I just feel like this is how bad teams stay bad; by making moves like this. Now, there's also no way to know, given we haven't had a staff (and technically still don't), which quarterback we like. I think it's just that Trubisky seems to be the consensus number one quarterback now.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
I absolutely hate the discrepancy between Trubisky's rankings and his projections in mock drafts. Jeremiah has him as his 31st ranked prospect, yet still mocks him to us. I know QBs are more important, and I know they take the QB-bias into consideration when doing these mock drafts, but I still hate that. If we were talking 10 spots, okay, I get it. But we're talking about a borderline first round talent, in a vacuum, being drafted at #2. That thought just horrifies me. And I feel he's being generous with 31. I feel like mocking us Trubisky is really just a lazy intellectual exercise. We don't have a QB, therefore we must draft a QB. Nevermind that it couldn't really have been a front office source, since we practically didn't have a front office, when these guys started doing mocks. So I really won't buy any "we like Trubisky at 2" until at least after the pro days. Until then, I call BS on all these mocks.


It's easier if you stop thinking about is a "QB-bias" and just accept that "positional value" is a real thing and that QBs have the highest positional value of any position - and by a whole lot. Centers and guards don't often go in the first round. It's not because there aren't any good ones out there. It's because the positional value of a C or G is just so much lower than other positions that the 3rd or 4th best OT or WR is often valued higher than the best C or G.



You haven't really made a point there. Do you really want the 31st ranked prospect at 2 just because he's a QB? If a QB only gets ranked 31st, what does that say about his ceiling and his chances to reach it? Really worth investing a #2 pick in him? If a QB has a higher ceiling than Trubisky, he gets drafted at 15. If he has a higher chance of reaching it, he's drafted at 1. He's ranked 31st for a reason: not a high enough ceiling, and a lower chance of reaching it. Is that a guy you really want to draft at #2? It has nothing to do with positional value. I'm willing to reach for a QB. Ideally, on a QB with a really high ceiling. Gun to my head, I reach for Wentz last year, but not Goff. Certainly not on Trubisky this year.
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757-NINER


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AustrianNiner wrote:
Speaking of that Mock Draft, he has us taking EDGE Carroll Phillips in the 3rd and RB Elijah Hood(over Kareem Hunt) in the 4th, not seen either mentioned so far, can anyone say something about them?



Not a Hood fan. He's ok but I don't see anything really special there. Phillips has some athleticism and good motor. But he's strictly a speed guy and at 240 lbs, I'd have to question if he could physically hack on the edge at the next level. I like his bookend teammate Smoot alot more. Nobody seems to be giving Smoot much love but I think he's an intriguing prospect as an edge rusher.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
I absolutely hate the discrepancy between Trubisky's rankings and his projections in mock drafts. Jeremiah has him as his 31st ranked prospect, yet still mocks him to us. I know QBs are more important, and I know they take the QB-bias into consideration when doing these mock drafts, but I still hate that. If we were talking 10 spots, okay, I get it. But we're talking about a borderline first round talent, in a vacuum, being drafted at #2. That thought just horrifies me. And I feel he's being generous with 31. I feel like mocking us Trubisky is really just a lazy intellectual exercise. We don't have a QB, therefore we must draft a QB. Nevermind that it couldn't really have been a front office source, since we practically didn't have a front office, when these guys started doing mocks. So I really won't buy any "we like Trubisky at 2" until at least after the pro days. Until then, I call BS on all these mocks.


It's easier if you stop thinking about is a "QB-bias" and just accept that "positional value" is a real thing and that QBs have the highest positional value of any position - and by a whole lot. Centers and guards don't often go in the first round. It's not because there aren't any good ones out there. It's because the positional value of a C or G is just so much lower than other positions that the 3rd or 4th best OT or WR is often valued higher than the best C or G.


Wish we still had access to big boards to see how quarterbacks were ranked by most, to see if ones that have been "reached" on in the first round have ever been a success, because when I look around, the good ones I see were either not first rounders, or were first rounders who were graded out as such. Unfortunately, Kiper and Mcshay's big boards are usually caught behind the espn insider wall. I know you can get Mayocks if you google search it. I would assume the same for Jeremiah.

But when I think of quarterbacks not graded out as first rounders, but taken in the first round, I don't see a ton of success. Guys like EJ Manuel, Brandon Weeden, etc etc. I get positional value, but only to an extent. That's why I have a hard time going with one of the wide receivers or Foster at #2...but if they're also grading out as one of the best players int he draft, I really don't have an issue with it.

Like I said, taking lesser talent, regardless of of the position, is how bad teams stay bad. I get it if it's close....if I thought Trubisky were a top 15 player in the draft, I could certainly see the case for him at #2 based on the positional value. But I don't put that much emphasis on the value. For me, Trubisky isn't in the top 50...so that makes it especially hard.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
I absolutely hate the discrepancy between Trubisky's rankings and his projections in mock drafts. Jeremiah has him as his 31st ranked prospect, yet still mocks him to us. I know QBs are more important, and I know they take the QB-bias into consideration when doing these mock drafts, but I still hate that. If we were talking 10 spots, okay, I get it. But we're talking about a borderline first round talent, in a vacuum, being drafted at #2. That thought just horrifies me. And I feel he's being generous with 31. I feel like mocking us Trubisky is really just a lazy intellectual exercise. We don't have a QB, therefore we must draft a QB. Nevermind that it couldn't really have been a front office source, since we practically didn't have a front office, when these guys started doing mocks. So I really won't buy any "we like Trubisky at 2" until at least after the pro days. Until then, I call BS on all these mocks.


Yep. So far, from what I can tell, Kiper is the highest on Trubisky (and he seems to really, really like him). I think he had him at 16. McShay had him at between 28-31, I think, and a second round grade on him overall.

I just feel like this is how bad teams stay bad; by making moves like this. Now, there's also no way to know, given we haven't had a staff (and technically still don't), which quarterback we like. I think it's just that Trubisky seems to be the consensus number one quarterback now.


I have a pretty good feeling our QB situation is going to be handled one way or another before the draft, with only a developmental guy selected in the 3rd or later. Just a gut feeling, and nothing more.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
Forge wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
I absolutely hate the discrepancy between Trubisky's rankings and his projections in mock drafts. Jeremiah has him as his 31st ranked prospect, yet still mocks him to us. I know QBs are more important, and I know they take the QB-bias into consideration when doing these mock drafts, but I still hate that. If we were talking 10 spots, okay, I get it. But we're talking about a borderline first round talent, in a vacuum, being drafted at #2. That thought just horrifies me. And I feel he's being generous with 31. I feel like mocking us Trubisky is really just a lazy intellectual exercise. We don't have a QB, therefore we must draft a QB. Nevermind that it couldn't really have been a front office source, since we practically didn't have a front office, when these guys started doing mocks. So I really won't buy any "we like Trubisky at 2" until at least after the pro days. Until then, I call BS on all these mocks.


Yep. So far, from what I can tell, Kiper is the highest on Trubisky (and he seems to really, really like him). I think he had him at 16. McShay had him at between 28-31, I think, and a second round grade on him overall.

I just feel like this is how bad teams stay bad; by making moves like this. Now, there's also no way to know, given we haven't had a staff (and technically still don't), which quarterback we like. I think it's just that Trubisky seems to be the consensus number one quarterback now.


I have a pretty good feeling our QB situation is going to be handled one way or another before the draft, with only a developmental guy selected in the 3rd or later. Just a gut feeling, and nothing more.


Welcome to San Fran, Matt Schaub!!!!!

In all honesty, it wouldn't completely shock me to see us and chicago make quarterback moves leading up to the draft that may push quarterbacks down. I'm not completely sold that we see a quarterback go in the top 10 yet even though there are potentially as many as 5 landing spots for them (Cle, Us, Chi, NYJ, Buf).
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