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2017 Draft Thread: Bowl Season, Baby!!
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J-ALL-DAY


Joined: 17 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Yeah, good luck with that Laughing.

There are nice cut ups on twitter of him taking on blockers and shedding them and his insane sideline to sideline speed.

Who is a better prospect between Foster and Hightower?


Don't you crush my dreams, J!! Don't you do it!!! I need to believe in this!!

Are you referring to Donta Hightower?


Yes.
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Forge


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Forge wrote:
J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Yeah, good luck with that Laughing.

There are nice cut ups on twitter of him taking on blockers and shedding them and his insane sideline to sideline speed.

Who is a better prospect between Foster and Hightower?


Don't you crush my dreams, J!! Don't you do it!!! I need to believe in this!!

Are you referring to Donta Hightower?


Yes.


For me, it's pretty comfortably Foster. I like him as a top 10 talent in this draft (I haven't broken it down yet, but he's got to be in the 8-10 range off the top of my head). I actually wasn't a super huge fan of Hightower - I viewed him as an early/mid second round pick guy and I think this years draft class is comparable to that one, maybe slightly superior.
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Forge wrote:
J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Yeah, good luck with that Laughing.

There are nice cut ups on twitter of him taking on blockers and shedding them and his insane sideline to sideline speed.

Who is a better prospect between Foster and Hightower?


Don't you crush my dreams, J!! Don't you do it!!! I need to believe in this!!

Are you referring to Donta Hightower?


Yes.


For me, it's pretty comfortably Foster. I like him as a top 10 talent in this draft (I haven't broken it down yet, but he's got to be in the 8-10 range off the top of my head). I actually wasn't a super huge fan of Hightower - I viewed him as an early/mid second round pick guy and I think this years draft class is comparable to that one, maybe slightly superior.


I love Foster. He's been a force in every game I've watched. He's always making plays. Not sure what his coverage skills are, and I really like how some LBs are fast enough and good enough in coverage to be every down players (Willis and Bowman for example), but I can live with taking him out on obvious passing downs if he is great on the rest of the downs. Maybe he's better in coverage than I think?
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Forge


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
Forge wrote:
J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Forge wrote:
J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Yeah, good luck with that Laughing.

There are nice cut ups on twitter of him taking on blockers and shedding them and his insane sideline to sideline speed.

Who is a better prospect between Foster and Hightower?


Don't you crush my dreams, J!! Don't you do it!!! I need to believe in this!!

Are you referring to Donta Hightower?


Yes.


For me, it's pretty comfortably Foster. I like him as a top 10 talent in this draft (I haven't broken it down yet, but he's got to be in the 8-10 range off the top of my head). I actually wasn't a super huge fan of Hightower - I viewed him as an early/mid second round pick guy and I think this years draft class is comparable to that one, maybe slightly superior.


I love Foster. He's been a force in every game I've watched. He's always making plays. Not sure what his coverage skills are, and I really like how some LBs are fast enough and good enough in coverage to be every down players (Willis and Bowman for example), but I can live with taking him out on obvious passing downs if he is great on the rest of the downs. Maybe he's better in coverage than I think?


I think that there are few linebackers in college who are great, natural cover linebackers. That was one of the things that made Jack so enticing last year. I think that's typically something that is coached up at the next level. If the guy has the speed and athleticism to cover, that's really all I need. I mean, remember Manny Lawson? I want to say he was a defensive end at NC State...he never covered anyone. After a few years, he was actually one of the better cover linebackers in football.

Even if they aren't great in man coverage, do they have the intelligence and awareness to work in a zone situation? So I wouldn't be overly concerned with that.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fureys49ers wrote:
J-ALL-DAY wrote:
But if you are the Titans, why would you trade up? They are right at the cusp of the playoffs but not yet close to a SB team so no need to trade away picks. They could potentially land Hooker and either Williams/Davis by staying put.

Only teams I see trading up are the ones that are looking for a QB. Best bet would be the Jets or Bears.


My thoughts exactly. Maybe throw the Bills into that mix too. Bills are the ones who I may truly need the feel to trade up too sitting at 10. Rumors say they like Watson a lot too and if they really do go through with dumping Taylor they'll be in dire need of something there as Manuel has proven time and time again he is not a QB in the NFL and I highly doubt Cardale Jones is anywhere near ready or proven to have much potential or I figured he would have been the QB who played the last week of the season.


Who knows, maybe the Browns think this is the year to make a splash. With the salary cap it's no longer unaffordable for a team to take two top picks. So maybe they move up to 2 and end up with both Garrett and Trubisky. We'd get something like 12, 33 plus next year's first which should still be a top ten pick in 2018. That gives us three top picks instead of one, and helps ensure we get one of the top QBs coming out next year. Given how much we need I think that's a good trade.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle_Rico wrote:
Fureys49ers wrote:
Uncle_Rico wrote:
Just watched some tape on John Ross and Dede Westbrook, here are my thoughts.

John Ross
I just don't see what there is to like, let alone love. Maybe I watched the wrong games but I saw little separation, problems with drops, and looking like an average player who was failing to get separation from inferior corners.

Absolutely shocked there's talk of him going in the 1st. Saw nothing to indicate he's anywhere near that level talent. Will watch more film, but honestly wouldn't touch him in the first 3 rounds from what I saw.

As always, my opinion is never set in stone so I'll be open to change if I find better tape but came away thoroughly unimpressed with what I saw.

Dede Westbrook

Is this who everyone is confusing John Ross for? Westbrook is one of the more explosive WR's I've seen in a while. Absolutely torches DB's and takes it to the house. Electric with the ball in his hand. Very impressed with his ability to come down with tough catches, as well.

Biggest knock on him is his slight build. Very thin and might have problems going over the middle.

This kid absolutely has 1st round talent and would be all over him at our early 2nd round pick if we keep that.

On a side note, has a history of domestic violence allegations, which, if true, would remove him from my board completely. But since I have no way of investigating the validity, I can't really comment on that.


I couldn't see it anymore different, Westbrook has a ton of off the field baggage, wasn't asked to do anything more than run straight down the field or and underneath screened drag route, rarely made contested catches, will be 24 years old as a rookie, oh and he weighs maybe 170 lbs. Sure, so does Desean Jackson, big difference is DJax runs a 4.3 40 and can get to that speed in 3 steps, Westbrook will probably run a 4.5, might be quick but that top speed is missing a gear.

John Ross probably looked like he didn't have very good separation because he had to pull up on almost all deep routes due to Brownings lack of an arm. This kid can absolutely fly and has the suddenness and shake that make him such a special player, and that's after a serious knee injury a year ago, reportedly in the 4.2's. He also ran more variety of routes than Westbrook giving him more ability to make big plays. No off field baggage. I'm not really sure how Ross saw inferior CBs and Westbrook didn't as Big 12's defensive prowess is absolutly terrible. Have not heard once of John Ross struggling with dropped passes either, doesn't mean he hasn't, but I don't think it's anything of note as it was with Fuller last year.

To me Ross is a late first/early second round guy and Westbrook is a mid rounder. Ross is a weapon to be used on offense and special teams, im not sure Westbrooks game translates very well to the NFL


Yeah, agree to disagree. Watched a little more of each and came away slightly lower on Westbrook than before due to limitations in the red zone and lack of evidence that he can beat press coverage. He also won't be a great blocker, so there's that.

However, to me, he is above Ross in explosive play-making ability. Ross did run a wider variety of routes but Browning's lack of arm isn't the reason for him separating consistently. And admittedly, Mayfield's ability to extend plays may have helped Westbrook get separation at times.

If I'm drafting one of these guys, explosive play-making ability and ability to stretch the field is what I'm looking for. And in that respect, I'd comfortably take Westbrook over Ross. Just not a fan of Ross at all.


The first time I saw Roos, and the time I decided he was a guy worth thinking about, he was behind the defense all game long. THey eventually had to put a second guy over the top to keep him from getting open deep. I wish I could remeber what game that was so I could tell you to watch that one. I've backed off from wanting him in the first. We just have too many other needs, and I want a big, strong WR before a Jackson/Ginn/Hill type.
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Forge


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
Fureys49ers wrote:
J-ALL-DAY wrote:
But if you are the Titans, why would you trade up? They are right at the cusp of the playoffs but not yet close to a SB team so no need to trade away picks. They could potentially land Hooker and either Williams/Davis by staying put.

Only teams I see trading up are the ones that are looking for a QB. Best bet would be the Jets or Bears.


My thoughts exactly. Maybe throw the Bills into that mix too. Bills are the ones who I may truly need the feel to trade up too sitting at 10. Rumors say they like Watson a lot too and if they really do go through with dumping Taylor they'll be in dire need of something there as Manuel has proven time and time again he is not a QB in the NFL and I highly doubt Cardale Jones is anywhere near ready or proven to have much potential or I figured he would have been the QB who played the last week of the season.


Who knows, maybe the Browns think this is the year to make a splash. With the salary cap it's no longer unaffordable for a team to take two top picks. So maybe they move up to 2 and end up with both Garrett and Trubisky. We'd get something like 12, 33 plus next year's first which should still be a top ten pick in 2018. That gives us three top picks instead of one, and helps ensure we get one of the top QBs coming out next year. Given how much we need I think that's a good trade.


That doesn't jive with what I'm hearing from Cleveland fans on this regime's philosophy. According to the fans, they are all about acquiring picks. I think it has to do with the analytics. I think it's more likely they trade down from one than it is that they trade up big from 12. And they have as many holes as we do, I don't see what good it does them to give up that kind of draft capital.
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Forge


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
Uncle_Rico wrote:
Fureys49ers wrote:
Uncle_Rico wrote:
Just watched some tape on John Ross and Dede Westbrook, here are my thoughts.

John Ross
I just don't see what there is to like, let alone love. Maybe I watched the wrong games but I saw little separation, problems with drops, and looking like an average player who was failing to get separation from inferior corners.

Absolutely shocked there's talk of him going in the 1st. Saw nothing to indicate he's anywhere near that level talent. Will watch more film, but honestly wouldn't touch him in the first 3 rounds from what I saw.

As always, my opinion is never set in stone so I'll be open to change if I find better tape but came away thoroughly unimpressed with what I saw.

Dede Westbrook

Is this who everyone is confusing John Ross for? Westbrook is one of the more explosive WR's I've seen in a while. Absolutely torches DB's and takes it to the house. Electric with the ball in his hand. Very impressed with his ability to come down with tough catches, as well.

Biggest knock on him is his slight build. Very thin and might have problems going over the middle.

This kid absolutely has 1st round talent and would be all over him at our early 2nd round pick if we keep that.

On a side note, has a history of domestic violence allegations, which, if true, would remove him from my board completely. But since I have no way of investigating the validity, I can't really comment on that.


I couldn't see it anymore different, Westbrook has a ton of off the field baggage, wasn't asked to do anything more than run straight down the field or and underneath screened drag route, rarely made contested catches, will be 24 years old as a rookie, oh and he weighs maybe 170 lbs. Sure, so does Desean Jackson, big difference is DJax runs a 4.3 40 and can get to that speed in 3 steps, Westbrook will probably run a 4.5, might be quick but that top speed is missing a gear.

John Ross probably looked like he didn't have very good separation because he had to pull up on almost all deep routes due to Brownings lack of an arm. This kid can absolutely fly and has the suddenness and shake that make him such a special player, and that's after a serious knee injury a year ago, reportedly in the 4.2's. He also ran more variety of routes than Westbrook giving him more ability to make big plays. No off field baggage. I'm not really sure how Ross saw inferior CBs and Westbrook didn't as Big 12's defensive prowess is absolutly terrible. Have not heard once of John Ross struggling with dropped passes either, doesn't mean he hasn't, but I don't think it's anything of note as it was with Fuller last year.

To me Ross is a late first/early second round guy and Westbrook is a mid rounder. Ross is a weapon to be used on offense and special teams, im not sure Westbrooks game translates very well to the NFL


Yeah, agree to disagree. Watched a little more of each and came away slightly lower on Westbrook than before due to limitations in the red zone and lack of evidence that he can beat press coverage. He also won't be a great blocker, so there's that.

However, to me, he is above Ross in explosive play-making ability. Ross did run a wider variety of routes but Browning's lack of arm isn't the reason for him separating consistently. And admittedly, Mayfield's ability to extend plays may have helped Westbrook get separation at times.

If I'm drafting one of these guys, explosive play-making ability and ability to stretch the field is what I'm looking for. And in that respect, I'd comfortably take Westbrook over Ross. Just not a fan of Ross at all.


The first time I saw Roos, and the time I decided he was a guy worth thinking about, he was behind the defense all game long. THey eventually had to put a second guy over the top to keep him from getting open deep. I wish I could remeber what game that was so I could tell you to watch that one. I've backed off from wanting him in the first. We just have too many other needs, and I want a big, strong WR before a Jackson/Ginn/Hill type.


Especially since you can get this in free agency. You can actually get D-Jax, or Kenny Stills this year. Heck, Stills is only 24 years old...he's only 18 months older than Dede Westbrook.
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sbrown


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
Fureys49ers wrote:
J-ALL-DAY wrote:
But if you are the Titans, why would you trade up? They are right at the cusp of the playoffs but not yet close to a SB team so no need to trade away picks. They could potentially land Hooker and either Williams/Davis by staying put.

Only teams I see trading up are the ones that are looking for a QB. Best bet would be the Jets or Bears.


My thoughts exactly. Maybe throw the Bills into that mix too. Bills are the ones who I may truly need the feel to trade up too sitting at 10. Rumors say they like Watson a lot too and if they really do go through with dumping Taylor they'll be in dire need of something there as Manuel has proven time and time again he is not a QB in the NFL and I highly doubt Cardale Jones is anywhere near ready or proven to have much potential or I figured he would have been the QB who played the last week of the season.


Who knows, maybe the Browns think this is the year to make a splash. With the salary cap it's no longer unaffordable for a team to take two top picks. So maybe they move up to 2 and end up with both Garrett and Trubisky. We'd get something like 12, 33 plus next year's first which should still be a top ten pick in 2018. That gives us three top picks instead of one, and helps ensure we get one of the top QBs coming out next year. Given how much we need I think that's a good trade.


That doesn't jive with what I'm hearing from Cleveland fans on this regime's philosophy. According to the fans, they are all about acquiring picks. I think it has to do with the analytics. I think it's more likely they trade down from one than it is that they trade up big from 12. And they have as many holes as we do, I don't see what good it does them to give up that kind of draft capital.


The one possibility is that their FO analytics dept. sees Allen as off the charts type player and drafts Garrett and allen to fortify their defense.
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AustrianNiner


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Courtland Sutton staying in school. Shame. Could do with someone like Godwin later on now.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
Fureys49ers wrote:
J-ALL-DAY wrote:
But if you are the Titans, why would you trade up? They are right at the cusp of the playoffs but not yet close to a SB team so no need to trade away picks. They could potentially land Hooker and either Williams/Davis by staying put.

Only teams I see trading up are the ones that are looking for a QB. Best bet would be the Jets or Bears.


My thoughts exactly. Maybe throw the Bills into that mix too. Bills are the ones who I may truly need the feel to trade up too sitting at 10. Rumors say they like Watson a lot too and if they really do go through with dumping Taylor they'll be in dire need of something there as Manuel has proven time and time again he is not a QB in the NFL and I highly doubt Cardale Jones is anywhere near ready or proven to have much potential or I figured he would have been the QB who played the last week of the season.


Who knows, maybe the Browns think this is the year to make a splash. With the salary cap it's no longer unaffordable for a team to take two top picks. So maybe they move up to 2 and end up with both Garrett and Trubisky. We'd get something like 12, 33 plus next year's first which should still be a top ten pick in 2018. That gives us three top picks instead of one, and helps ensure we get one of the top QBs coming out next year. Given how much we need I think that's a good trade.


That doesn't jive with what I'm hearing from Cleveland fans on this regime's philosophy. According to the fans, they are all about acquiring picks. I think it has to do with the analytics. I think it's more likely they trade down from one than it is that they trade up big from 12. And they have as many holes as we do, I don't see what good it does them to give up that kind of draft capital.


It would make a lot more sense to you if they love Trubisky. You build your offense around a QB and your defense around a pass rusher. If they can get what they think (! - not us) are future pro bowlers at both spots then it makes sense.
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Fureys49ers


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In hopes that whoever becomes our HC, assuming they are the main brain behind our offensive scheme, I've been looking at FB prospects in this up coming draft and there's one guy who sticks out above the rest, Sam Rogers of VT. He's smaller but is great at putting his hat on second level defenders and is a legit pass catching option out of the backfield. Would love to see him added with our 5th round pick.

If we decide to go the route of wrecking ball for a FB with no real ball skills I think Prescott Line from Michigan St might be a 7th/UDFA guy available. He looks like a smaller OL out there and when he locks on to a defender they might as well just wait for the whistle.

What's your guys thoughts on adding a FB through draft or FA?
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fureys49ers wrote:
In hopes that whoever becomes our HC, assuming they are the main brain behind our offensive scheme, I've been looking at FB prospects in this up coming draft and there's one guy who sticks out above the rest, Sam Rogers of VT. He's smaller but is great at putting his hat on second level defenders and is a legit pass catching option out of the backfield. Would love to see him added with our comp. 4th or 5th round pick. What's your guys thoughts on adding a FB through draft or FA?


harbaugh made good use out of Khalid Hill. Of course whether we need one or not depends on the offensive scheme. My preference is for QB under center and lead FB on running downs. We;ll have to see what the new coach likes.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fureys49ers wrote:
In hopes that whoever becomes our HC, assuming they are the main brain behind our offensive scheme, I've been looking at FB prospects in this up coming draft and there's one guy who sticks out above the rest, Sam Rogers of VT. He's smaller but is great at putting his hat on second level defenders and is a legit pass catching option out of the backfield. Would love to see him added with our 5th round pick.

If we decide to go the route of wrecking ball for a FB with no real ball skills I think Prescott Line from Michigan St might be a 7th/UDFA guy available. He looks like a smaller OL out there and when he locks on to a defender they might as well just wait for the whistle.

What's your guys thoughts on adding a FB through draft or FA?


Fullback is still an actual position?



No, but seriously. It's not a question that can really be answered until we know what kind of offense is being installed. Pretty sure that most teams don't even have one on the roster any more. Personally? I don't care for fullbacks. Too limited in what they do. I prefer the h-back for the most part - give me someone who can line up in the backfield, on the line, maybe in the slot or split wide.
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Fureys49ers


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just checked the FA this year at FB and Kuhn, Develin, DiMarco, Line and Juszyzck are all FAs, so I'd much rather give one of them a bigger contract than what they'd get with their team and bring them here than use a draft pick on one.

As far as why FBs Forge? Because I'm going off the likelihood that both of our HC candidates have shown repeatedly at different stops that they value and use a FB in their offense. And I assume that even though their title goes from OC to HC they will still be running the show on that side of the ball. I think while Shannahan was the Browns OC they drafted a FB, then at Atlanta DiMarco really showed up strong. With McDaniels they had bigger RBs they used as FBs and FBs on their roster as well and while in NE he's had Develin the past couple years.

All that to me is evidence that we will be adding a FB to our roster for next year.
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