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2017 Draft Thread: Senior Bowl
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AustrianNiner


Joined: 28 Nov 2016
Posts: 132
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
AustrianNiner wrote:
If we are indeed daft enough to go QB in round 1 we at least have the chance to get one of Anderson, Harris or McKinley at the top of round 2, doubt they'd all go on day 1. While I could live with QB and passrusher as the first 2 picks, I'd really like a WR early. But if Courtland Sutton doesn't declare that's perhaps an easier pill to swallow, really like that guy.


I'm surprised he's taking so much time. I think he's a prime target at the top of round 2. I like him more than JuJu.


Same. Will apparently announce tomorrow whether he'll declare or not.
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
If he does fall to the 2nd, Barnett/Watson could be our Mack/Carr duo Laughing.

Josh Norris mocked us Barnett with the 2nd pick. First time I've seen anyone do that.


Usually the top 5 or 6 are close to agreed on by the mockers. But I've seen Barnett going anywhere from 2 to 10 or 11. That's a huge range for someone in the top third of the draft/
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wukusimw


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barnett came to my mind right before I read the last post! I've been struggling with who to mock to you guys if Browns go Garrett and trying not to reach on a QB. Barnett is comparable to the others but fits a major position of need and value.
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Xcusesr4losers


Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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Location: da beach
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I were the new GM I would absolutely trade down no matter what. Garret/Allen/Barrett is who I'm looking at.... although Garrett is the flashier/twitchier prospect the other 2 just produce ALL THE TIME. The reason I would trade down is because we all agree that our roster lacks talent and playmakers. I'm a firm believer that a great pass rush makes a defense. When you make an offense 1 dimensional that's a win. Our secondary is good but not great, our LBs are bad but our pass rush is horrible. Can Garrett be that guy? Possibly but this team has too many holes. (Pass rush, LBs, WRs, o-line and of course QB!)

My thinking is trade down from #2 to #10 range (multiple times if needed) while picking up extra #1 (Titans 5 & 1Cool anyone from #3 to #9 it would be their 1st and 2nd rounders this yr and next yrs #2. My point is I don't see a huge drop-off from Garret to Allen to Barnett all 3 are STUDS who I consider 3-down lineman who play well vs the run and pass. This yrs draft is loaded at DE/OLB players like Williams, Anderson, McKinley, Harris, Charlton, Walker, McDowell, Thomas, Lawson, Watt, Cunningham, McMillan some of these will be there in the 2nd and 3rd round too. So the smart move is that if there are no franchise QBs or Left Tackles you trade down if your team has multiple holes. Just my 2cents.

Btw if Titans gave me 5 and 18 for #2 I'd go Barnett at 5 (if Garrett and Allen were gone) and either Corey Davis, Cunningham or BPA at 18 but I wouldn't be opposed to trading down again to pick up a late 1st and a #2
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J-ALL-DAY


Joined: 17 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But if you are the Titans, why would you trade up? They are right at the cusp of the playoffs but not yet close to a SB team so no need to trade away picks. They could potentially land Hooker and either Williams/Davis by staying put.

Only teams I see trading up are the ones that are looking for a QB. Best bet would be the Jets or Bears.
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Fureys49ers


Joined: 31 Mar 2015
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Location: Sacramento, CA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
But if you are the Titans, why would you trade up? They are right at the cusp of the playoffs but not yet close to a SB team so no need to trade away picks. They could potentially land Hooker and either Williams/Davis by staying put.

Only teams I see trading up are the ones that are looking for a QB. Best bet would be the Jets or Bears.


My thoughts exactly. Maybe throw the Bills into that mix too. Bills are the ones who I may truly need the feel to trade up too sitting at 10. Rumors say they like Watson a lot too and if they really do go through with dumping Taylor they'll be in dire need of something there as Manuel has proven time and time again he is not a QB in the NFL and I highly doubt Cardale Jones is anywhere near ready or proven to have much potential or I figured he would have been the QB who played the last week of the season.
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Uncle_Rico


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just watched some tape on John Ross and Dede Westbrook, here are my thoughts.

John Ross
I just don't see what there is to like, let alone love. Maybe I watched the wrong games but I saw little separation, problems with drops, and looking like an average player who was failing to get separation from inferior corners.

Absolutely shocked there's talk of him going in the 1st. Saw nothing to indicate he's anywhere near that level talent. Will watch more film, but honestly wouldn't touch him in the first 3 rounds from what I saw.

As always, my opinion is never set in stone so I'll be open to change if I find better tape but came away thoroughly unimpressed with what I saw.

Dede Westbrook

Is this who everyone is confusing John Ross for? Westbrook is one of the more explosive WR's I've seen in a while. Absolutely torches DB's and takes it to the house. Electric with the ball in his hand. Very impressed with his ability to come down with tough catches, as well.

Biggest knock on him is his slight build. Very thin and might have problems going over the middle.

This kid absolutely has 1st round talent and would be all over him at our early 2nd round pick if we keep that.

On a side note, has a history of domestic violence allegations, which, if true, would remove him from my board completely. But since I have no way of investigating the validity, I can't really comment on that.
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Fureys49ers


Joined: 31 Mar 2015
Posts: 520
Location: Sacramento, CA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle_Rico wrote:
Just watched some tape on John Ross and Dede Westbrook, here are my thoughts.

John Ross
I just don't see what there is to like, let alone love. Maybe I watched the wrong games but I saw little separation, problems with drops, and looking like an average player who was failing to get separation from inferior corners.

Absolutely shocked there's talk of him going in the 1st. Saw nothing to indicate he's anywhere near that level talent. Will watch more film, but honestly wouldn't touch him in the first 3 rounds from what I saw.

As always, my opinion is never set in stone so I'll be open to change if I find better tape but came away thoroughly unimpressed with what I saw.

Dede Westbrook

Is this who everyone is confusing John Ross for? Westbrook is one of the more explosive WR's I've seen in a while. Absolutely torches DB's and takes it to the house. Electric with the ball in his hand. Very impressed with his ability to come down with tough catches, as well.

Biggest knock on him is his slight build. Very thin and might have problems going over the middle.

This kid absolutely has 1st round talent and would be all over him at our early 2nd round pick if we keep that.

On a side note, has a history of domestic violence allegations, which, if true, would remove him from my board completely. But since I have no way of investigating the validity, I can't really comment on that.


I couldn't see it anymore different, Westbrook has a ton of off the field baggage, wasn't asked to do anything more than run straight down the field or and underneath screened drag route, rarely made contested catches, will be 24 years old as a rookie, oh and he weighs maybe 170 lbs. Sure, so does Desean Jackson, big difference is DJax runs a 4.3 40 and can get to that speed in 3 steps, Westbrook will probably run a 4.5, might be quick but that top speed is missing a gear.

John Ross probably looked like he didn't have very good separation because he had to pull up on almost all deep routes due to Brownings lack of an arm. This kid can absolutely fly and has the suddenness and shake that make him such a special player, and that's after a serious knee injury a year ago, reportedly in the 4.2's. He also ran more variety of routes than Westbrook giving him more ability to make big plays. No off field baggage. I'm not really sure how Ross saw inferior CBs and Westbrook didn't as Big 12's defensive prowess is absolutly terrible. Have not heard once of John Ross struggling with dropped passes either, doesn't mean he hasn't, but I don't think it's anything of note as it was with Fuller last year.

To me Ross is a late first/early second round guy and Westbrook is a mid rounder. Ross is a weapon to be used on offense and special teams, im not sure Westbrooks game translates very well to the NFL
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Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 16995
Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Matt MillerVerified account
‏@nfldraftscout
Asked a scout why Zach Cunningham hasn't declared yet:

"We're not in love with him. Needs to gain strength, make more tackles. Rd2-3"


I feel like the stock has been slipping for a while now.

He's catching a lot of flack in the draft forums as well.
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J-ALL-DAY


Joined: 17 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And that's perfectly fine. He is an inconsistent tackler no doubt but does a lot of freakish things on the field. A nice candidate for the 2nd round.
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Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
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Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
And that's perfectly fine. He is an inconsistent tackler no doubt but does a lot of freakish things on the field. A nice candidate for the 2nd round.


Yeah, that's a big knock on him from what I can see. Poor tackling (chase and drag down) and bad angles.

But possibly round 3? Sign me up for that all day.
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J-ALL-DAY


Joined: 17 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, good luck with that Laughing.

There are nice cut ups on twitter of him taking on blockers and shedding them and his insane sideline to sideline speed.

Who is a better prospect between Foster and Hightower?
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Uncle_Rico


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fureys49ers wrote:
Uncle_Rico wrote:
Just watched some tape on John Ross and Dede Westbrook, here are my thoughts.

John Ross
I just don't see what there is to like, let alone love. Maybe I watched the wrong games but I saw little separation, problems with drops, and looking like an average player who was failing to get separation from inferior corners.

Absolutely shocked there's talk of him going in the 1st. Saw nothing to indicate he's anywhere near that level talent. Will watch more film, but honestly wouldn't touch him in the first 3 rounds from what I saw.

As always, my opinion is never set in stone so I'll be open to change if I find better tape but came away thoroughly unimpressed with what I saw.

Dede Westbrook

Is this who everyone is confusing John Ross for? Westbrook is one of the more explosive WR's I've seen in a while. Absolutely torches DB's and takes it to the house. Electric with the ball in his hand. Very impressed with his ability to come down with tough catches, as well.

Biggest knock on him is his slight build. Very thin and might have problems going over the middle.

This kid absolutely has 1st round talent and would be all over him at our early 2nd round pick if we keep that.

On a side note, has a history of domestic violence allegations, which, if true, would remove him from my board completely. But since I have no way of investigating the validity, I can't really comment on that.


I couldn't see it anymore different, Westbrook has a ton of off the field baggage, wasn't asked to do anything more than run straight down the field or and underneath screened drag route, rarely made contested catches, will be 24 years old as a rookie, oh and he weighs maybe 170 lbs. Sure, so does Desean Jackson, big difference is DJax runs a 4.3 40 and can get to that speed in 3 steps, Westbrook will probably run a 4.5, might be quick but that top speed is missing a gear.

John Ross probably looked like he didn't have very good separation because he had to pull up on almost all deep routes due to Brownings lack of an arm. This kid can absolutely fly and has the suddenness and shake that make him such a special player, and that's after a serious knee injury a year ago, reportedly in the 4.2's. He also ran more variety of routes than Westbrook giving him more ability to make big plays. No off field baggage. I'm not really sure how Ross saw inferior CBs and Westbrook didn't as Big 12's defensive prowess is absolutly terrible. Have not heard once of John Ross struggling with dropped passes either, doesn't mean he hasn't, but I don't think it's anything of note as it was with Fuller last year.

To me Ross is a late first/early second round guy and Westbrook is a mid rounder. Ross is a weapon to be used on offense and special teams, im not sure Westbrooks game translates very well to the NFL


Yeah, agree to disagree. Watched a little more of each and came away slightly lower on Westbrook than before due to limitations in the red zone and lack of evidence that he can beat press coverage. He also won't be a great blocker, so there's that.

However, to me, he is above Ross in explosive play-making ability. Ross did run a wider variety of routes but Browning's lack of arm isn't the reason for him separating consistently. And admittedly, Mayfield's ability to extend plays may have helped Westbrook get separation at times.

If I'm drafting one of these guys, explosive play-making ability and ability to stretch the field is what I'm looking for. And in that respect, I'd comfortably take Westbrook over Ross. Just not a fan of Ross at all.
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Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Yeah, good luck with that Laughing.

There are nice cut ups on twitter of him taking on blockers and shedding them and his insane sideline to sideline speed.

Who is a better prospect between Foster and Hightower?


Don't you crush my dreams, J!! Don't you do it!!! I need to believe in this!!

Are you referring to Donta Hightower?
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Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
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Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle_Rico wrote:
Fureys49ers wrote:
Uncle_Rico wrote:
Just watched some tape on John Ross and Dede Westbrook, here are my thoughts.

John Ross
I just don't see what there is to like, let alone love. Maybe I watched the wrong games but I saw little separation, problems with drops, and looking like an average player who was failing to get separation from inferior corners.

Absolutely shocked there's talk of him going in the 1st. Saw nothing to indicate he's anywhere near that level talent. Will watch more film, but honestly wouldn't touch him in the first 3 rounds from what I saw.

As always, my opinion is never set in stone so I'll be open to change if I find better tape but came away thoroughly unimpressed with what I saw.

Dede Westbrook

Is this who everyone is confusing John Ross for? Westbrook is one of the more explosive WR's I've seen in a while. Absolutely torches DB's and takes it to the house. Electric with the ball in his hand. Very impressed with his ability to come down with tough catches, as well.

Biggest knock on him is his slight build. Very thin and might have problems going over the middle.

This kid absolutely has 1st round talent and would be all over him at our early 2nd round pick if we keep that.

On a side note, has a history of domestic violence allegations, which, if true, would remove him from my board completely. But since I have no way of investigating the validity, I can't really comment on that.


I couldn't see it anymore different, Westbrook has a ton of off the field baggage, wasn't asked to do anything more than run straight down the field or and underneath screened drag route, rarely made contested catches, will be 24 years old as a rookie, oh and he weighs maybe 170 lbs. Sure, so does Desean Jackson, big difference is DJax runs a 4.3 40 and can get to that speed in 3 steps, Westbrook will probably run a 4.5, might be quick but that top speed is missing a gear.

John Ross probably looked like he didn't have very good separation because he had to pull up on almost all deep routes due to Brownings lack of an arm. This kid can absolutely fly and has the suddenness and shake that make him such a special player, and that's after a serious knee injury a year ago, reportedly in the 4.2's. He also ran more variety of routes than Westbrook giving him more ability to make big plays. No off field baggage. I'm not really sure how Ross saw inferior CBs and Westbrook didn't as Big 12's defensive prowess is absolutly terrible. Have not heard once of John Ross struggling with dropped passes either, doesn't mean he hasn't, but I don't think it's anything of note as it was with Fuller last year.

To me Ross is a late first/early second round guy and Westbrook is a mid rounder. Ross is a weapon to be used on offense and special teams, im not sure Westbrooks game translates very well to the NFL


Yeah, agree to disagree. Watched a little more of each and came away slightly lower on Westbrook than before due to limitations in the red zone and lack of evidence that he can beat press coverage. He also won't be a great blocker, so there's that.

However, to me, he is above Ross in explosive play-making ability. Ross did run a wider variety of routes but Browning's lack of arm isn't the reason for him separating consistently. And admittedly, Mayfield's ability to extend plays may have helped Westbrook get separation at times.

If I'm drafting one of these guys, explosive play-making ability and ability to stretch the field is what I'm looking for. And in that respect, I'd comfortably take Westbrook over Ross. Just not a fan of Ross at all.


Don't discount the schematic differences of each offense along with the conferences they play in. That is a factor.
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