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TitanSlim


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting tidbit from Matt Miller's new scouting notebook.

Quote:
—The Tennessee Titans have two first-round picks this year, thanks to a trade with the Los Angeles Rams, and I'm told by a rival general manager that upgrading the tight end position will be a key priority. "They're gonna want to do that New England thing with two tight ends. Watch and see."



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2698339-matt-millers-scouting-notebook-clemson-pro-day-new-2-round-mock-draft-more
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanSlim wrote:
Interesting tidbit from Matt Miller's new scouting notebook.

Quote:
—The Tennessee Titans have two first-round picks this year, thanks to a trade with the Los Angeles Rams, and I'm told by a rival general manager that upgrading the tight end position will be a key priority. "They're gonna want to do that New England thing with two tight ends. Watch and see."



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2698339-matt-millers-scouting-notebook-clemson-pro-day-new-2-round-mock-draft-more

sounds like it's just a rival GM's speculation

wouldn't mind howard or njoku but i'm gonna be infuriated if we ignore WR and CB
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanSlim wrote:
Interesting tidbit from Matt Miller's new scouting notebook.

Quote:
—The Tennessee Titans have two first-round picks this year, thanks to a trade with the Los Angeles Rams, and I'm told by a rival general manager that upgrading the tight end position will be a key priority. "They're gonna want to do that New England thing with two tight ends. Watch and see."



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2698339-matt-millers-scouting-notebook-clemson-pro-day-new-2-round-mock-draft-more


100% prepared to be the only happy person when we take OJ Howard at #5.
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KingTitan


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanSS wrote:
TitanSlim wrote:
Interesting tidbit from Matt Miller's new scouting notebook.

Quote:
—The Tennessee Titans have two first-round picks this year, thanks to a trade with the Los Angeles Rams, and I'm told by a rival general manager that upgrading the tight end position will be a key priority. "They're gonna want to do that New England thing with two tight ends. Watch and see."



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2698339-matt-millers-scouting-notebook-clemson-pro-day-new-2-round-mock-draft-more


100% prepared to be the only happy person when we take OJ Howard at #5.


You and I seem to be on the same track mostly this off season.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see it. And I'll be fine with it. More than one way to upgrade the passing game, than drafting a wr
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ragevsuall17


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mularkey's offense offenses have traditionally/historically ignored any significant contributions to TE2's. I've explained it a few times (here's the link which outlines every one of his seasons through 2012 http://www.4for4.com/fantasy-football/2016/preseason/how-mike-mularkey-impacts-titans-2016-fantasy-outlook)

But even with the Titans, we saw the dramatic change in Fasano's usage... 42 targets in '15 under the Whiz offense (and yes, Mularkey admitted he didn't change the offense when he took over), down to 13 targets last year. His snap counts stayed relatively the same (548 to 533)... it's just his usage of the TE position. Yeah, he can adjust based on personnel, but it's not his preferred method... so they won't reach for Howard at 18... and a guy like Njouke just doesn't fit his style of offense... especially as a TE2 (unless they plan on using him as a defacto WR).
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ragevsuall17


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingTitan wrote:
TitanSS wrote:
TitanSlim wrote:
Interesting tidbit from Matt Miller's new scouting notebook.

Quote:
—The Tennessee Titans have two first-round picks this year, thanks to a trade with the Los Angeles Rams, and I'm told by a rival general manager that upgrading the tight end position will be a key priority. "They're gonna want to do that New England thing with two tight ends. Watch and see."



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2698339-matt-millers-scouting-notebook-clemson-pro-day-new-2-round-mock-draft-more


100% prepared to be the only happy person when we take OJ Howard at #5.


You and I seem to be on the same track mostly this off season.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see it. And I'll be fine with it. More than one way to upgrade the passing game, than drafting a wr


KT, I know we were talking about RB targets the other day... and I found this that I thought was interesting:

Quote:
Mike Mularkey has either held a head coach or offensive coordinator gig during 13 seasons dating back to 2001. The average target share handled by tailbacks is 14 percent during those campaigns. Mularkey's tailbacks have never exceeded 18 percent (2004), and the Titans' 16 percent mark in 2016 was his highest since that 2004 season. In chronological order, the target shares are as follows: 10, 13, 16, 18, 14, 13, 16, 14, 14, 15, 12, 14, 16. That's an impressive level of consistency and a pretty strong clue that we shouldn't expect much of a change in the department for DeMarco Murray and Derrick Henry this season.


http://www.espn.com/fantasy/football/story/_/id/18925545/fantasy-football-things-learned-compiling-2017-projections
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lamont


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingTitan wrote:
TitanSS wrote:
TitanSlim wrote:
Interesting tidbit from Matt Miller's new scouting notebook.

Quote:
—The Tennessee Titans have two first-round picks this year, thanks to a trade with the Los Angeles Rams, and I'm told by a rival general manager that upgrading the tight end position will be a key priority. "They're gonna want to do that New England thing with two tight ends. Watch and see."



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2698339-matt-millers-scouting-notebook-clemson-pro-day-new-2-round-mock-draft-more


100% prepared to be the only happy person when we take OJ Howard at #5.


You and I seem to be on the same track mostly this off season.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see it. And I'll be fine with it. More than one way to upgrade the passing game, than drafting a wr


Ahhh excuse me. I have been on the 1st round TE train as well. Wink
I really don't want Howard at #5. Trade back to 9-14 and pick up a second round pick. I would be happy with Howard or Njoku at either 1st round pick at that point.
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KingTitan


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ragevsuall17 wrote:
Mularkey's offense offenses have traditionally/historically ignored any significant contributions to TE2's. I've explained it a few times (here's the link which outlines every one of his seasons through 2012 http://www.4for4.com/fantasy-football/2016/preseason/how-mike-mularkey-impacts-titans-2016-fantasy-outlook)

But even with the Titans, we saw the dramatic change in Fasano's usage... 42 targets in '15 under the Whiz offense (and yes, Mularkey admitted he didn't change the offense when he took over), down to 13 targets last year. His snap counts stayed relatively the same (548 to 533)... it's just his usage of the TE position. Yeah, he can adjust based on personnel, but it's not his preferred method... so they won't reach for Howard at 18... and a guy like Njouke just doesn't fit his style of offense... especially as a TE2 (unless they plan on using him as a defacto WR).


Maybe a defacto WR? Or have Delaine be that? Some of these TE's are testing better and running better than some of the WRs. So maybe the could convince themselves to get that TE and use him as a WR or use Walker as it?

Maybe I'm overthinking it. But I just think they may go outside the normal route when "fixing" the passing game.
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KingTitan


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lamont wrote:
KingTitan wrote:
TitanSS wrote:
TitanSlim wrote:
Interesting tidbit from Matt Miller's new scouting notebook.

Quote:
—The Tennessee Titans have two first-round picks this year, thanks to a trade with the Los Angeles Rams, and I'm told by a rival general manager that upgrading the tight end position will be a key priority. "They're gonna want to do that New England thing with two tight ends. Watch and see."



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2698339-matt-millers-scouting-notebook-clemson-pro-day-new-2-round-mock-draft-more


100% prepared to be the only happy person when we take OJ Howard at #5.


You and I seem to be on the same track mostly this off season.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see it. And I'll be fine with it. More than one way to upgrade the passing game, than drafting a wr


Ahhh excuse me. I have been on the 1st round TE train as well. Wink
I really don't want Howard at #5. Trade back to 9-14 and pick up a second round pick. I would be happy with Howard or Njoku at either 1st round pick at that point.


Oh...wasn't trying to exclude you. Smile
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TitanSlim


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lamont wrote:
KingTitan wrote:
TitanSS wrote:
TitanSlim wrote:
Interesting tidbit from Matt Miller's new scouting notebook.

Quote:
—The Tennessee Titans have two first-round picks this year, thanks to a trade with the Los Angeles Rams, and I'm told by a rival general manager that upgrading the tight end position will be a key priority. "They're gonna want to do that New England thing with two tight ends. Watch and see."



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2698339-matt-millers-scouting-notebook-clemson-pro-day-new-2-round-mock-draft-more


100% prepared to be the only happy person when we take OJ Howard at #5.


You and I seem to be on the same track mostly this off season.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see it. And I'll be fine with it. More than one way to upgrade the passing game, than drafting a wr


Ahhh excuse me. I have been on the 1st round TE train as well. Wink
I really don't want Howard at #5. Trade back to 9-14 and pick up a second round pick. I would be happy with Howard or Njoku at either 1st round pick at that point.


*clears throat*

I just want to point out that I posted this way back on November 3rd. Wink

Quote:
How will you guys feel when we select OJ Howard with one of our first?

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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ragevsuall17 wrote:
Mularkey's offense offenses have traditionally/historically ignored any significant contributions to TE2's. I've explained it a few times (here's the link which outlines every one of his seasons through 2012 http://www.4for4.com/fantasy-football/2016/preseason/how-mike-mularkey-impacts-titans-2016-fantasy-outlook)

But even with the Titans, we saw the dramatic change in Fasano's usage... 42 targets in '15 under the Whiz offense (and yes, Mularkey admitted he didn't change the offense when he took over), down to 13 targets last year. His snap counts stayed relatively the same (548 to 533)... it's just his usage of the TE position. Yeah, he can adjust based on personnel, but it's not his preferred method... so they won't reach for Howard at 18... and a guy like Njouke just doesn't fit his style of offense... especially as a TE2 (unless they plan on using him as a defacto WR).


Maybe that is the case and the way he uses his players is static rather than dynamic, but I also highly doubt he has had a team with two incredibly talented receiving TEs on it before. Fasano isn't exactly a weapon in the passing game.

Not only that, but I think OJ Howard could play WR if you wanted a more athletic Kelvin Benjamin.

We're also looking at the fact that Delanie Walker will be 33 when the season starts. I understand he still looks the part of a dynamic play-maker, but aging play-makers don't typically give you a warning before their play is going to fall off and it is better to have his replacement learn from him, than to only have Supernaw and to search for a replacement out of necessity. Couple that with the fact that we lost our #2 TE and the decreasing ability of college TEs coming into the NFL with the ability to block.

Robinson mentioned last year when selecting Derrick Henry... He's not drafting for this year he's drafting for next year.

I'm not saying I necessarily think we will draft him, but I do want him and believe there is a good argument to be made for having him on this team.

Looking at the page you listed and the TE chart, if you were to exclude Mularkey's days in Atlanta with Tony Gonzalez you could basically say he is never going to feature the TE as a passing target in his offense at all, averaging under 1.5 receptions per game from 2001 to 2005 with the Steelers. His targets at the TE positions seem to be based more on how talented the player was, rather than a static determination of how to use players in his offense.

If anything, the fact that Tony Gonzalez averaged close to 4 times as many targets as any TE he had in Pittsburgh suggests that he will dynamically adjust his offense to fit the players he has.
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ragevsuall17


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanSS wrote:
ragevsuall17 wrote:
Mularkey's offense offenses have traditionally/historically ignored any significant contributions to TE2's. I've explained it a few times (here's the link which outlines every one of his seasons through 2012 http://www.4for4.com/fantasy-football/2016/preseason/how-mike-mularkey-impacts-titans-2016-fantasy-outlook)

But even with the Titans, we saw the dramatic change in Fasano's usage... 42 targets in '15 under the Whiz offense (and yes, Mularkey admitted he didn't change the offense when he took over), down to 13 targets last year. His snap counts stayed relatively the same (548 to 533)... it's just his usage of the TE position. Yeah, he can adjust based on personnel, but it's not his preferred method... so they won't reach for Howard at 18... and a guy like Njouke just doesn't fit his style of offense... especially as a TE2 (unless they plan on using him as a defacto WR).


Maybe that is the case and the way he uses his players is static rather than dynamic, but I also highly doubt he has had a team with two incredibly talented receiving TEs on it before. Fasano isn't exactly a weapon in the passing game.

Not only that, but I think OJ Howard could play WR if you wanted a more athletic Kelvin Benjamin.

We're also looking at the fact that Delanie Walker will be 33 when the season starts. I understand he still looks the part of a dynamic play-maker, but aging play-makers don't typically give you a warning before their play is going to fall off and it is better to have his replacement learn from him, than to only have Supernaw and to search for a replacement out of necessity. Couple that with the fact that we lost our #2 TE and the decreasing ability of college TEs coming into the NFL with the ability to block.

Robinson mentioned last year when selecting Derrick Henry... He's not drafting for this year he's drafting for next year.

I'm not saying I necessarily think we will draft him, but I do want him and believe there is a good argument to be made for having him on this team.

Looking at the page you listed and the TE chart, if you were to exclude Mularkey's days in Atlanta with Tony Gonzalez you could basically say he is never going to feature the TE as a passing target in his offense at all, averaging under 1.5 receptions per game from 2001 to 2005 with the Steelers. His targets at the TE positions seem to be based more on how talented the player was, rather than a static determination of how to use players in his offense.

If anything, the fact that Tony Gonzalez averaged close to 4 times as many targets as any TE he had in Pittsburgh suggests that he will dynamically adjust his offense to fit the players he has.


Mularkey has adjusted... actually has a good track record of it... his early Bettis years were run heavier... his first year in Atl, he ran 55% of the plays while Turner was having a great year. That quickly changed the following year, where he ran just 44% of the time. He also never featured a TE in his offenses as much as when he had Gonzo in Atl.

If nothing else, Mularkey has shown to be highly adaptable. If he/they want to build their team in the image of the Pats... especially when they had Gronk and Hernandez killing offenses, it'll be the first time he does that... but I think he's shown he's willing and able to adapt. Historical analysis is only part of equation and could give us hints at what is most likely to happen, but it does not dictate what we'll do.

I like Howard, would love him at 18... just not at 5. I don't like Njouke's fit in the offense, as his pass blocking is questionable. If that's the route they want to take, I'd prefer to see if Amaro can continue developing in that role (de facto WR).

I had a problem with Henry's pick last year... saw it as a luxury pick (later confirmed by JRob as such) on a team that I thought didn't have room for such luxuries. This year, a luxury/future plans type of pick would annoy even more. I think we're a good move or two away from being a legit playoff team. We've made moves this year, but where exactly have we gotten better? STs, for sure. Run defense... maybe, although that wasn't an issue last season.

We can't forget the concept that when you're not getting better, you're getting worse. I do see the reason for optimism... we have a very young offense... and we can expect improvement from the young players getting better... Mariota, Henry, Lewan, Conklin? But have we actively done anything to improve the pass game though? Some are saying that Walker is aging... what if he takes a significant step back this year... what if Matthews doesn't come close to replicating his career year? Is 1 rookie at going to make up for that and exceed it (if we're expecting to get better)?

And what about our pass defense? Ryan is a good piece, but what else? Again, we're expecting Sims to continue improving? What's wrong with actively trying to improve depth... if we're expecting Sims to be our #2, why not bring someone who can compete with him... having 2 guys that could start outside, take over for the other if they get hurt or hit a wall? We're expecting all our players to improve... but we're not doing anything to give us backup plans.... are we taking into account sophomore slumps?

On this board, I'm probably one of the most positive posters... rose colored glasses almost 24/7. I just don't see the plan right now. Last year we went into the draft needing a T and CB. We fixed tackle, sure, then went luxury drafting in the 2nd, leaving the secondary to be the mess it was last year. This year we have holes in the passing game and still in the secondary. Robinson has stated all positions are at play... but we've really backed ourselves into a corner, having to address both those needs with our 1st rounders... if not, we may be left with the same mess at one of those positions. If we go LB or DL with our high 1st, what do we do at 18... draft a DB, and go with Matthews/Walker/and not a whole bunch else after that? Or do we go WR/TE, and leave our secondary a big ? for a second straight year?

As much as I wanted Jeffery and/or Gilmore... that's not what I'm concerned about. I'm concerned about not going after those value signings... to allow the luxury to go into the draft and go BPA, go for positions that may not seem like an immediate need...
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm right there with you on the value signings. I wanted to be far more active bringing in veterans to compete for the #2 and #3 CB position. What reason could they have for not bringing them in? Did they view them as bad team fits or feel they weren't worth what they are asking? Or do they just feel that confident with Ryan and Sims? Neither are convincing arguments.

I'm not too upset about not addressing anything of offense in FA. The value players I did want ended up getting paid well over value. On defense another CB and LB could have easily been brought in cheap.
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ragevsuall17


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanSS wrote:
I'm right there with you on the value signings. I wanted to be far more active bringing in veterans to compete for the #2 and #3 CB position. What reason could they have for not bringing them in? Did they view them as bad team fits or feel they weren't worth what they are asking? Or do they just feel that confident with Ryan and Sims? Neither are convincing arguments.

I'm not too upset about not addressing anything of offense in FA. The value players I did want ended up getting paid well over value. On defense another CB and LB could have easily been brought in cheap.


Yeah... early on, I posted the motto for others to follow... in Rob we trust. Gotta follow my own advise.

It's just tough when see you those cheap 1 year deals... and we're not jumping aboard... Jefferey was a bit pricey at 1/10M... I didn't like Pryor but at 1/6M (although I honestly don't think he would have taken that anywhere else... he's due for a monster year there if they keep Cousins)

... but it's the mid level signings at a position of need... Claiborne at 1/5M, Carr at 1/6M (essentially). There's really no CB depth available at this point. Shields is good, but missed all of last season and has drug issues pending. Maybe we bring Blake back (he actually played decent down the stretch).

I know we should bring in a good rookie group again... I just hate passing up at some very good talent at some positions because of need... or if we do go BPA at those other positions, I hate thinking about going into the season at either WR or CB with the current depth chart we have.

I'll be fully aboard once the season starts... I still hope for a trade back resulting in 3 picks in the top 45 or so. That'll make me feel better... just right now... with 3 signings on D and none on O (while losing depth in Schwenke and Wright)... that leaves me feeling a bit bleh...
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not really worried about what we lost on offense. We lost depth, but should hopefully be able to replace it with a good group. Schwenke will be harder to replace than Wright, mainly because of his ability to play center.

I'm just right there with you as to why we didn't go for Carr/Claiborne. Even if they liked Sims, it's not like depth or competition isn't worth the cheap contracts they got. Maybe they jsut don't see anything in either one of them?

I don't buy into some fans notion that they either don't care or are hoarding their money because they're cheap, and I don't believe you do either. There has to be some logical reason as to why they didn't feel the need to add them to the roster at or above the money they were given.
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