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Rich7sena


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 6859
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
I did a list of WRs that I'd pound the table for, so I'll do the same here. Here are the CBs (not counting Marshon Lattimore, Marlon Humphrey, and Sidney Jones) that I'd pound the table for my team to draft:
1. Gareon Conley CB Ohio State
2. Jourdan Lewis CB Michigan
3. Ahkello Witherspoon CB Colorado
4. Howard Wilson CB Houston
5. Joshua Holsey CB Auburn

I have physicality concerns about Conley. Not that he isn't physical, because he tries to be, but he plays with seemingly zero weight behind his pads. Best example of this (there are many) is when he came on a corner blitz against Clemson, had Watson dead to rights, and Watson just assimilated him like some kind of amoeba.

Ideally, he would be a nickel corner who plays exclusively outside like Bradley Roby.
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Jlash


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich7sena wrote:

I have physicality concerns about Conley. Not that he isn't physical, because he tries to be, but he plays with seemingly zero weight behind his pads. Best example of this (there are many) is when he came on a corner blitz against Clemson, had Watson dead to rights, and Watson just assimilated him like some kind of amoeba.

Ideally, he would be a nickel corner who plays exclusively outside like Bradley Roby.


Wow. Went mega nerd on us.
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CalhounLambeau


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich7sena wrote:
Best example of this (there are many) is when he came on a corner blitz against Clemson, had Watson dead to rights, and Watson just assimilated him like some kind of amoeba.

I remember that play. He came like a bat out of hell. Watson saw it coming and got in perfect position. Conley aimed high and Watson kind of turned him with a shoulder twist. That was embarrassing.
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MSURacerDT55


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


Either ways, I'm just moving on. I'll continue to value your opinion, even if you don't respect mine.


Oh hush, we good bro. You stood your ground and I stood mine and we ended up speaking similar languages. No big deal
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DraftHobbyist


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to be a little controversial (sorry if it has been mentioned), but is there a shot CB Gareon Conley OHIO ST could actually pass CB Marshawn Lattimore OHIO ST? If you look at the athleticism, you get the same height, Conley is 2 lbs heavier, .08 49 slower, 1.5" VJ less, 4" BJ less, but you also get more information. Conley's 4.18 SS and 11 bench reps are not great (but solid), but his 6.68 3-cone is elite. What if Marshawn Lattimore ran his 3-cone and it was something like a 6.9+ and/or 5 bench reps? Would that change your mind on how to rank them?

And lets not forget, these guys were basically 1a and 1b at Ohio St. They were both put on islands so that Malik Hooker could go freelance. They are very close statistically. Thoughts?
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ttitansfan4life


Joined: 30 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DraftHobbyist wrote:
Just to be a little controversial (sorry if it has been mentioned), but is there a shot CB Gareon Conley OHIO ST could actually pass CB Marshawn Lattimore OHIO ST? If you look at the athleticism, you get the same height, Conley is 2 lbs heavier, .08 49 slower, 1.5" VJ less, 4" BJ less, but you also get more information. Conley's 4.18 SS and 11 bench reps are not great (but solid), but his 6.68 3-cone is elite. What if Marshawn Lattimore ran his 3-cone and it was something like a 6.9+ and/or 5 bench reps? Would that change your mind on how to rank them?

And lets not forget, these guys were basically 1a and 1b at Ohio St. They were both put on islands so that Malik Hooker could go freelance. They are very close statistically. Thoughts?


Wouldn't change anything because Lattimore is easily the better player. Only negative I have on Lattimore is his injury history.
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DraftHobbyist


Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttitansfan4life wrote:
Wouldn't change anything because Lattimore is easily the better player. Only negative I have on Lattimore is his injury history.


Based on what? I mean, sure, Lattimore is a great player, but so is Conley. What are you looking at that is telling you there is such a wide gap, especially if Lattimore put in some important unathletic times? (I wasn't even considering the injury history, but throw that in as well.)
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chiefs82


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DraftHobbyist wrote:
Just to be a little controversial (sorry if it has been mentioned), but is there a shot CB Gareon Conley OHIO ST could actually pass CB Marshawn Lattimore OHIO ST? If you look at the athleticism, you get the same height, Conley is 2 lbs heavier, .08 49 slower, 1.5" VJ less, 4" BJ less, but you also get more information. Conley's 4.18 SS and 11 bench reps are not great (but solid), but his 6.68 3-cone is elite. What if Marshawn Lattimore ran his 3-cone and it was something like a 6.9+ and/or 5 bench reps? Would that change your mind on how to rank them?

And lets not forget, these guys were basically 1a and 1b at Ohio St. They were both put on islands so that Malik Hooker could go freelance. They are very close statistically. Thoughts?


I like Conley a lot more than I did Eli Apple, and I think he is a great #2. His ball skills aren't quite what Lattimore's are. But Conley has all the physical tools to be really special.

If he lands in the right system with the right coaching and an established #1 guy already, he's gonna excel. He'd be a perfect fit I think to pair with a Marcus Peters
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Rich7sena


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DraftHobbyist wrote:
Based on what? I mean, sure, Lattimore is a great player, but so is Conley. What are you looking at that is telling you there is such a wide gap, especially if Lattimore put in some important unathletic times? (I wasn't even considering the injury history, but throw that in as well.)

Conley isn't a good tackler and probably can't follow guys into the slot. I view him as strictly and outside press corner. Lack of versatility make him a late first round pick to me even though he has ideal measurables and nice coverage tape.
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TheRealMcCoy


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich7sena wrote:
DraftHobbyist wrote:
Based on what? I mean, sure, Lattimore is a great player, but so is Conley. What are you looking at that is telling you there is such a wide gap, especially if Lattimore put in some important unathletic times? (I wasn't even considering the injury history, but throw that in as well.)

Conley isn't a good tackler and probably can't follow guys into the slot. I view him as strictly and outside press corner. Lack of versatility make him a late first round pick to me even though he has ideal measurables and nice coverage tape.

I thought he actually played really well from a coverage standpoint in the slot, but maybe you meant you don't want him going into the slot cause of his tackling issues which would make sense. There is no doubt he needs to improve as a tackler.

I will say that I think being a great tackler is more important for a corner in a defense that runs a lot of zone rather than man.

Conley should go to a defense where he can play a lot of man coverage. It is what he did for the most part at Ohio State.

And, he needs to be more physical not just when tackling, but when covering as well. He needs to use his hands better in press. Too often he lets his guy get a free release. Conley has super long arms and needs to use them to his advantage.

If you can get him to be more consistent when tackling and using his hands in coverage? Whew.... sky is the limit for him.
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MSURacerDT55


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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Location: 8 mile by way of St. Clair E.99
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DraftHobbyist wrote:
Just to be a little controversial (sorry if it has been mentioned), but is there a shot CB Gareon Conley OHIO ST could actually pass CB Marshawn Lattimore OHIO ST? If you look at the athleticism, you get the same height, Conley is 2 lbs heavier, .08 49 slower, 1.5" VJ less, 4" BJ less, but you also get more information. Conley's 4.18 SS and 11 bench reps are not great (but solid), but his 6.68 3-cone is elite. What if Marshawn Lattimore ran his 3-cone and it was something like a 6.9+ and/or 5 bench reps? Would that change your mind on how to rank them?

And lets not forget, these guys were basically 1a and 1b at Ohio St. They were both put on islands so that Malik Hooker could go freelance. They are very close statistically. Thoughts?



Its funny because before the season Conley was thought of as the #1 corner and top draft prospect of the DBs when the season started. It ended up being a perfect storm of Lattimore being a #1 himself and Hooker being one of the best FS to ever wear scarlet and gray. Point is, Conley never changed his game which shouldn't be a negative. He's been super consistent every since he got on the field. All he does is cover and he does that as well as anyone in this draft.
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indigo_rex


Joined: 03 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
I did a list of WRs that I'd pound the table for, so I'll do the same here. Here are the CBs (not counting Marshon Lattimore, Marlon Humphrey, and Sidney Jones) that I'd pound the table for my team to draft:
1. Gareon Conley CB Ohio State
2. Jourdan Lewis CB Michigan
3. Ahkello Witherspoon CB Colorado
4. Howard Wilson CB Houston
5. Joshua Holsey CB Auburn


Good list. Conley should be locked into the top-15, and Witherspoon should be locked into the 1st RD.

Shaquil Griffin doesn't have the cleanest tape, but he brings toughness and physicality to the position, and everything I have read indicates that he's a high-character player. In addition to killing the jumps, Griffin is one of only four players since 2010 to have 32"+ arms and run a sub-4.40 40. The other players are Patrick Peterson, Darius Slay, and Justin Gilbert. Again, he's a physical, tough player, so I don't view Gilbert as a cautionary example. Griffin is no Patrick Peterson (obviously), but other than the 40, Griffin outperformed Slay in every Combine drill.

I think the 2nd RD is his floor, even in this loaded group.
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gah112


Joined: 30 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any concerns about Witherspoon's physicality? He looks like a great prospect as a coverage CB but is he going to be exploited because he's soft?
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Counselor


Joined: 31 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gah112 wrote:
Any concerns about Witherspoon's physicality? He looks like a great prospect as a coverage CB but is he going to be exploited because he's soft?


He needs to go to a team that already has corners who play physical to push him and improve his mentality. I think Denver in round 2 could be a good spot for him if he made it to pick 51.
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Kenrik


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gah112 wrote:
Any concerns about Witherspoon's physicality? He looks like a great prospect as a coverage CB but is he going to be exploited because he's soft?


100% agree. I just watched his Washington tape and he missed three tackles. 2 of those he was easily shedded. He also avoided every opportunity at getting physical.
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