Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

2017 LB Thread
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 8, 9, 10 ... 16, 17, 18  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL Draft
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mse326


Moderator
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 18138
Location: mike23md on the sig
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWood21 wrote:
mse326 wrote:
You called it right his biggest issue is angles and over pursuit. I think that can be fixed. He has the other stuff. I don't expect prospects to come in great I have coaches for a reason.


But I do expect a bit more polish. Don't get me wrong, he's intriguing but his instincts aren't where they need to be, and those really aren't something you can coach up. Quite frankly, most of his issues are something you'd anticipate seeing in someone with limited snaps at the position. He's someone whose been essentially a full-time starter since he redshirted his true freshman year.


I think where we differ is in what we see the problem is. I don't see an issue with instincts like seeing the hole or reading the O-line. I see more of a physical issue in reading the angle and staying disciplined. If it is instincts I'd agree with you.
_________________

#JDI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KingBishop


Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 8255
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mse326 wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
mse326 wrote:
You called it right his biggest issue is angles and over pursuit. I think that can be fixed. He has the other stuff. I don't expect prospects to come in great I have coaches for a reason.


But I do expect a bit more polish. Don't get me wrong, he's intriguing but his instincts aren't where they need to be, and those really aren't something you can coach up. Quite frankly, most of his issues are something you'd anticipate seeing in someone with limited snaps at the position. He's someone whose been essentially a full-time starter since he redshirted his true freshman year.


I think where we differ is in what we see the problem is. I don't see an issue with instincts like seeing the hole or reading the O-line. I see more of a physical issue in reading the angle and staying disciplined. If it is instincts I'd agree with you.


He's a chase and drag down tackler. And even at that he often lunges and misses. If I'm taking a LBer first round I want an enforcer to stops guys in their tracks not a guy who makes contact with a RB two yards short of the first down but still allows the guy to consistently reach forward and extend for and get it. Where's the pop?
_________________
Favorite Players in this Class:

David Njoku, Jourdan Lewis, Steven Taylor, Tedric Thompson, Marlon Mack, Brian Hill, OJ Howard, Jamal Adams, Malik Hooker, Marcus Williams, Eddie Jackson

Deforest Buckner is the best player in the 2016 draft class
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CWood21


Moderator
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 49434
Location: mike23md on the dope sig
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mse326 wrote:
I think where we differ is in what we see the problem is. I don't see an issue with instincts like seeing the hole or reading the O-line. I see more of a physical issue in reading the angle and staying disciplined. If it is instincts I'd agree with you.


For me, angles and instincts are pretty much tied together. And if he didn't have great athleticism, does he make those same plays? I'm not sure he does. He's a read and react defender, there's no instincts there. Very much an anti-Reggie Ragland.
_________________

PackFan4Life wrote:
I have been pooping like a unicorn for two days and it is freaky.

bkobow05 wrote:
So this is what DCR feels like on Saturdays...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
KingBishop


Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 8255
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWood21 wrote:
mse326 wrote:
I think where we differ is in what we see the problem is. I don't see an issue with instincts like seeing the hole or reading the O-line. I see more of a physical issue in reading the angle and staying disciplined. If it is instincts I'd agree with you.


For me, angles and instincts are pretty much tied together. And if he didn't have great athleticism, does he make those same plays? I'm not sure he does. He's a read and react defender, there's no instincts there. Very much an anti-Reggie Ragland.


And them boys are faster in the league. Need those instincts
_________________
Favorite Players in this Class:

David Njoku, Jourdan Lewis, Steven Taylor, Tedric Thompson, Marlon Mack, Brian Hill, OJ Howard, Jamal Adams, Malik Hooker, Marcus Williams, Eddie Jackson

Deforest Buckner is the best player in the 2016 draft class
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 69128
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWood21 wrote:
mse326 wrote:
I think where we differ is in what we see the problem is. I don't see an issue with instincts like seeing the hole or reading the O-line. I see more of a physical issue in reading the angle and staying disciplined. If it is instincts I'd agree with you.


For me, angles and instincts are pretty much tied together. And if he didn't have great athleticism, does he make those same plays? I'm not sure he does. He's a read and react defender, there's no instincts there. Very much an anti-Reggie Ragland.


They're not, though.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KingBishop


Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 8255
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Opinions on Calvin Munson LB SDSU?
_________________
Favorite Players in this Class:

David Njoku, Jourdan Lewis, Steven Taylor, Tedric Thompson, Marlon Mack, Brian Hill, OJ Howard, Jamal Adams, Malik Hooker, Marcus Williams, Eddie Jackson

Deforest Buckner is the best player in the 2016 draft class
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mse326


Moderator
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 18138
Location: mike23md on the sig
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
mse326 wrote:
I think where we differ is in what we see the problem is. I don't see an issue with instincts like seeing the hole or reading the O-line. I see more of a physical issue in reading the angle and staying disciplined. If it is instincts I'd agree with you.


For me, angles and instincts are pretty much tied together. And if he didn't have great athleticism, does he make those same plays? I'm not sure he does. He's a read and react defender, there's no instincts there. Very much an anti-Reggie Ragland.


They're not, though.


Thank you. I don't even get how they are tied together
_________________

#JDI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
armsteeld


Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 6796
Location: In your head
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingBishop wrote:
Opinions on Calvin Munson LB SDSU?


I like him. His best attribute is getting off blocks. He is vey slippery and has a nonstop motor. I like Barrett more due to Steelers needing a pass rusher. Damonte Kazee is a good CB with nice ball skills and good cover guy. I like their defense.
_________________




"Sheep follow the flock for direction and security but scatter at the sight of the lone wolf". Rocky
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chiefer


Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Posts: 13846
Location: Somewhere in an Arizona Desert...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mse326 wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
mse326 wrote:
I think where we differ is in what we see the problem is. I don't see an issue with instincts like seeing the hole or reading the O-line. I see more of a physical issue in reading the angle and staying disciplined. If it is instincts I'd agree with you.


For me, angles and instincts are pretty much tied together. And if he didn't have great athleticism, does he make those same plays? I'm not sure he does. He's a read and react defender, there's no instincts there. Very much an anti-Reggie Ragland.


They're not, though.


Thank you. I don't even get how they are tied together
i would imagine your instincts tell you what angle to tackle a RB, because you can only make these decisions in a split-second.
_________________
game3525 wrote:
Death, taxes, Andy Reid coming off a bye week.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KingBishop


Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 8255
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chiefer wrote:
mse326 wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
mse326 wrote:
I think where we differ is in what we see the problem is. I don't see an issue with instincts like seeing the hole or reading the O-line. I see more of a physical issue in reading the angle and staying disciplined. If it is instincts I'd agree with you.


For me, angles and instincts are pretty much tied together. And if he didn't have great athleticism, does he make those same plays? I'm not sure he does. He's a read and react defender, there's no instincts there. Very much an anti-Reggie Ragland.


They're not, though.


Thank you. I don't even get how they are tied together
i would imagine your instincts tell you what angle to tackle a RB, because you can only make these decisions in a split-second.


Agreed. To say they have nothing to do with angles is incorrect. When a player reads and diagnoses a play we say he has great instincts. If he didn't take the right angle to that play he wouldn't make the play and thus we wouldn't be saying he has great instincts.
_________________
Favorite Players in this Class:

David Njoku, Jourdan Lewis, Steven Taylor, Tedric Thompson, Marlon Mack, Brian Hill, OJ Howard, Jamal Adams, Malik Hooker, Marcus Williams, Eddie Jackson

Deforest Buckner is the best player in the 2016 draft class
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mse326


Moderator
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 18138
Location: mike23md on the sig
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingBishop wrote:
Chiefer wrote:
mse326 wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
mse326 wrote:
I think where we differ is in what we see the problem is. I don't see an issue with instincts like seeing the hole or reading the O-line. I see more of a physical issue in reading the angle and staying disciplined. If it is instincts I'd agree with you.


For me, angles and instincts are pretty much tied together. And if he didn't have great athleticism, does he make those same plays? I'm not sure he does. He's a read and react defender, there's no instincts there. Very much an anti-Reggie Ragland.


They're not, though.


Thank you. I don't even get how they are tied together
i would imagine your instincts tell you what angle to tackle a RB, because you can only make these decisions in a split-second.


Agreed. To say they have nothing to do with angles is incorrect. When a player reads and diagnoses a play we say he has great instincts. If he didn't take the right angle to that play he wouldn't make the play and thus we wouldn't be saying he has great instincts.


That doesn't make them equivalent. Instincts is about reading what's happening and knowing where the play is going.

Angles are more physically related or misjudging.

You can have great instincts and terrible angles and great angles but terrible instincts. (or obviously great or both or bad at both).

But saying him taking wrong ankles means bad instincts is just incorrect. The easiest way to know this is that players can be taught proper angles and frequently are. You can't get taught instincts.
_________________

#JDI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KingBishop


Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 8255
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mse326 wrote:
KingBishop wrote:
Chiefer wrote:
mse326 wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
mse326 wrote:
I think where we differ is in what we see the problem is. I don't see an issue with instincts like seeing the hole or reading the O-line. I see more of a physical issue in reading the angle and staying disciplined. If it is instincts I'd agree with you.


For me, angles and instincts are pretty much tied together. And if he didn't have great athleticism, does he make those same plays? I'm not sure he does. He's a read and react defender, there's no instincts there. Very much an anti-Reggie Ragland.


They're not, though.


Thank you. I don't even get how they are tied together
i would imagine your instincts tell you what angle to tackle a RB, because you can only make these decisions in a split-second.


Agreed. To say they have nothing to do with angles is incorrect. When a player reads and diagnoses a play we say he has great instincts. If he didn't take the right angle to that play he wouldn't make the play and thus we wouldn't be saying he has great instincts.


That doesn't make them equivalent. Instincts is about reading what's happening and knowing where the play is going.

Angles are more physically related or misjudging.

You can have great instincts and terrible angles and great angles but terrible instincts. (or obviously great or both or bad at both).

But saying him taking wrong ankles means bad instincts is just incorrect. The easiest way to know this is that players can be taught proper angles and frequently are. You can't get taught instincts.


I don't see the instincts either way you want to argue it. You take him in the first and be disappointed.
_________________
Favorite Players in this Class:

David Njoku, Jourdan Lewis, Steven Taylor, Tedric Thompson, Marlon Mack, Brian Hill, OJ Howard, Jamal Adams, Malik Hooker, Marcus Williams, Eddie Jackson

Deforest Buckner is the best player in the 2016 draft class
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 69128
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingBishop wrote:
Chiefer wrote:
mse326 wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
mse326 wrote:
I think where we differ is in what we see the problem is. I don't see an issue with instincts like seeing the hole or reading the O-line. I see more of a physical issue in reading the angle and staying disciplined. If it is instincts I'd agree with you.


For me, angles and instincts are pretty much tied together. And if he didn't have great athleticism, does he make those same plays? I'm not sure he does. He's a read and react defender, there's no instincts there. Very much an anti-Reggie Ragland.


They're not, though.


Thank you. I don't even get how they are tied together
i would imagine your instincts tell you what angle to tackle a RB, because you can only make these decisions in a split-second.


Agreed. To say they have nothing to do with angles is incorrect. When a player reads and diagnoses a play we say he has great instincts. If he didn't take the right angle to that play he wouldn't make the play and thus we wouldn't be saying he has great instincts.


That's not really accurate either. Instincts play into angles. But they're not tied together. Instincts are fairly minimal part of angles when compared to film study/football IQ, aggression/self-awareness, scheme/player responsibility, and physicality.

For example, Scooby Wright III is an example of a guy with tremendous instincts who chose to take very aggressive angles to compensate for his athletic attributes. This led to Wright generally making a big play at or behind the LOS or running himself out of the play. It was boom/bust. It had nothing to do with his instincts.

Your instincts affect the angles you choose to take, but they aren't what cause you to take poor angles.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KingBishop


Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 8255
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
KingBishop wrote:
Chiefer wrote:
mse326 wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
mse326 wrote:
I think where we differ is in what we see the problem is. I don't see an issue with instincts like seeing the hole or reading the O-line. I see more of a physical issue in reading the angle and staying disciplined. If it is instincts I'd agree with you.


For me, angles and instincts are pretty much tied together. And if he didn't have great athleticism, does he make those same plays? I'm not sure he does. He's a read and react defender, there's no instincts there. Very much an anti-Reggie Ragland.


They're not, though.


Thank you. I don't even get how they are tied together
i would imagine your instincts tell you what angle to tackle a RB, because you can only make these decisions in a split-second.


Agreed. To say they have nothing to do with angles is incorrect. When a player reads and diagnoses a play we say he has great instincts. If he didn't take the right angle to that play he wouldn't make the play and thus we wouldn't be saying he has great instincts.


That's not really accurate either. Instincts play into angles. But they're not tied together. Instincts are fairly minimal part of angles when compared to film study/football IQ, aggression/self-awareness, scheme/player responsibility, and physicality.

For example, Scooby Wright III is an example of a guy with tremendous instincts who chose to take very aggressive angles to compensate for his athletic attributes. This led to Wright generally making a big play at or behind the LOS or running himself out of the play. It was boom/bust. It had nothing to do with his instincts.

Your instincts affect the angles you choose to take, but they aren't what cause you to take poor angles.


Never said they were the sole factor in angles but they play a part. And Cunningham isn't the player everyone wants to make him out to be. He has had tackling issues his whole career and has never fixed them. He isn't powerful and needs to strengthen his base. Is he a draftable player? Yes. But top 15? Get out of here.
_________________
Favorite Players in this Class:

David Njoku, Jourdan Lewis, Steven Taylor, Tedric Thompson, Marlon Mack, Brian Hill, OJ Howard, Jamal Adams, Malik Hooker, Marcus Williams, Eddie Jackson

Deforest Buckner is the best player in the 2016 draft class
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KingBishop


Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 8255
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So even worse is Cunningham takes bad angles but it's not because of athleticism. He is athletic for a LBer. So what can we attribute to his poor angles? If you call Cunningham's bad angles due to film study I call Bs. And if you call it based on lack of awareness... Well you can keep him.
_________________
Favorite Players in this Class:

David Njoku, Jourdan Lewis, Steven Taylor, Tedric Thompson, Marlon Mack, Brian Hill, OJ Howard, Jamal Adams, Malik Hooker, Marcus Williams, Eddie Jackson

Deforest Buckner is the best player in the 2016 draft class
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL Draft All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 8, 9, 10 ... 16, 17, 18  Next
Page 9 of 18

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group