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Jlash


Joined: 17 Oct 2016
Posts: 2127
Location: NJ
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
Am I the only one that doesn't really see it with his game? To me his game is pretty reminiscent of what Jonathan Bullard was last year, and the biggest difference is that he plays on an Alabama DL that shifts the attention away from him on every play, and he's almost every play left 1 v 1 vs a OG. He's strong as you can imagine, but he isn't going to out athlete anyone in the NFL, even inside, and he tries to play a fineness game rushing the passer, and just ends up sitting there playing patty cake with the OL FAR too often.


I think you're exaggerating a bit here. I don't have the time to dig it up, but someone charted his snaps at each position throughout last season and I think he went up against tackles a decent amount from what I remember.
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MOSteelers56


Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 6607
Location: Anywheresville Missouri
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

reamer wrote:
Thoughts on Odenigbo? I am worried I'm hyping him beyond what others see, but he looks like a solid 3rd rounder to me, with starter potential.

6'3"HEIGHT
32 5/8"ARM LENGTH
258LBS.WEIGHT
10 1/2"HANDS

4.72 SEC
25 REPS
31.5 INCH
128.0 INCH
7.26 SEC
4.40 SEC


How is this guy so under the radar? He's the 26th DE on nfldraftscout.com, which would most likely make him an undrafted free agent, but he led the Big 10 in sacks. Double-digit sacks this year, including back to back multi-sack games against Iowa and Michigan State. He has almost identical size and testing numbers to Tarell Basham, for example, but against far better level of competition -- yet one is listed in everyone's top 10, and the other is considered barely draftable. He's a really powerful player from what I've seen. He had 4 sacks against Iowa this year, and they're a pretty well-coached OL unit.

When reviewing my game notes, I found an emerging theme of recurring words and phrases: “tree stump,” “violent,” “dominating,” “sturdy,” “overwhelming power,” etc. Strong punch to put tackle off balance, and often follows it up with a jerk or pull on the jersey when the tackle tries to regain equilibrium. Used occasionally as a standup blitzer from inside linebacker, or sometimes will reduce to 3-tech. Aggressive player who thrives on contact. Seems tough and mentally engaged at all times.

In my opinion, he's an extremely underrated player with solid traits and production — not a lot separating Odenigbo from the better known names in this class. Great in interviews, with an engaged, humble, and focused style of communication. Seems to have the drive and demeanor to be a reliable, responsible pro football player. Comes across as a mature, intelligent individual. Locker room leader. Well respected within the program. What am I missing??

I've read that the knock against him is his play against the run, but when watching his games, I see stuff like this:

https://gfycat.com/SlimPaleIaerismetalmark

Or how about this play?

What I love about this sack is that Odenigbo has completely convinced the tackle that he’s going to bull-rush again, and then the tackle is left ducking his head at empty air when Odenigbo turns upfield. Although he’s primarily a physical bull-rusher, Odenigbo possess the playspeed to get outside and turn the edge on a tackle. It’s worth noting that he weighed in bigger and faster than Charles Harris, who is regarded as a speed rusher.

https://gfycat.com/HelpfulDelectableCopperbutterfly


Four sack game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm2A4Vq3U3w

I'm getting this on the current page. I'm interested in finding out more.
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Heimdallr


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWood21 wrote:
jebrick wrote:
You could fill in all 'C' on the wonderlic form and get a 10. it takes some serious effort to get a 3.

I understand he he has Special Ed needs at school. Special athlete with a 1 cent brain. He could only be a situational pass rusher.

I hope someone else takes him before the Steelers pick.

Please tell me you didn't just correlate a wonderlic score and his future? That's about one of the worst correlations I've ever seen.

There is a difference between a low score and a 3. Getting a 3 on a test as easy as the Wonderlic puts you in the area of clinical retardation.
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48 1/2ers


Joined: 01 Aug 2011
Posts: 3981
Location: Northern California
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heimdallr wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
jebrick wrote:
You could fill in all 'C' on the wonderlic form and get a 10. it takes some serious effort to get a 3.

I understand he he has Special Ed needs at school. Special athlete with a 1 cent brain. He could only be a situational pass rusher.

I hope someone else takes him before the Steelers pick.

Please tell me you didn't just correlate a wonderlic score and his future? That's about one of the worst correlations I've ever seen.

There is a difference between a low score and a 3. Getting a 3 on a test as easy as the Wonderlic puts you in the area of clinical retardation.

Or a simple learning disability, which should negate any score's value.
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Duffman57


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 9472
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jlash wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:
Am I the only one that doesn't really see it with his game? To me his game is pretty reminiscent of what Jonathan Bullard was last year, and the biggest difference is that he plays on an Alabama DL that shifts the attention away from him on every play, and he's almost every play left 1 v 1 vs a OG. He's strong as you can imagine, but he isn't going to out athlete anyone in the NFL, even inside, and he tries to play a fineness game rushing the passer, and just ends up sitting there playing patty cake with the OL FAR too often.


I think you're exaggerating a bit here. I don't have the time to dig it up, but someone charted his snaps at each position throughout last season and I think he went up against tackles a decent amount from what I remember.


Yeah on a lot of base downs he was more outside. I was mostly referring to pass rush snaps there, where he was almost always kicked inside vs an OG. Either way, I don't see him out athlete college OT's nearly enough to give me much hope for his pass rushing ability in the NFL.
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Everything about Rivers is Awkward, reminiscent of a Giraffe with Down's Syndrome
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BleedTheClock


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
Posts: 5381
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

48 1/2ers wrote:
Heimdallr wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
jebrick wrote:
You could fill in all 'C' on the wonderlic form and get a 10. it takes some serious effort to get a 3.

I understand he he has Special Ed needs at school. Special athlete with a 1 cent brain. He could only be a situational pass rusher.

I hope someone else takes him before the Steelers pick.

Please tell me you didn't just correlate a wonderlic score and his future? That's about one of the worst correlations I've ever seen.

There is a difference between a low score and a 3. Getting a 3 on a test as easy as the Wonderlic puts you in the area of clinical retardation.

Or a simple learning disability, which should negate any score's value.


Why are learning disabilities considered "simple?"
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CWood21


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heimdallr wrote:
There is a difference between a low score and a 3. Getting a 3 on a test as easy as the Wonderlic puts you in the area of clinical retardation.


The implication that the player was taking the test seriously. And it still doesn't answer my question about how does him having a poor Wonderlic score directly affect his ability to understand and pick up a defense. It'd be one thing if he had academic issues throughout college, but you're using an outdated test to try and evaluate a player based on that.
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I have been pooping like a unicorn for two days and it is freaky.

bkobow05 wrote:
So this is what DCR feels like on Saturdays...
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lark25


Joined: 01 May 2014
Posts: 399
Location: Aus
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You take the test on the understanding that teams have the perception it is an indicator of your ability to understand playbooks etc. Why wouldn't you take it seriously?

Not taking it seriously is another red flag. Either way there's a big question mark on the guy.
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CWood21


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lark25 wrote:
You take the test on the understanding that teams have the perception it is an indicator of your ability to understand playbooks etc. Why wouldn't you take it seriously?

Not taking it seriously is another red flag. Either way there's a big question mark on the guy.


Because there's literally zero correlation between Wonderlic scores and ability to comprehend an offense/defense. We're not talking about his ability to understand the X's and O's of the play design, we're talking about what are essentially brain teasers.
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PackFan4Life wrote:
I have been pooping like a unicorn for two days and it is freaky.

bkobow05 wrote:
So this is what DCR feels like on Saturdays...
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BleedTheClock


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
Posts: 5381
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best Overall:

Highest Ceiling:

Lowest Floor:

Violent Hands:

Overall Athlete:

Spin Move:

Rip/Speed Move:

Push-Pull Move:
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BleedTheClock


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
Posts: 5381
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BleedTheClock wrote:
Best Overall:

Highest Ceiling: MYLES GARRETT

Lowest Floor: JONATHAN ALLEN

Violent Hands: JALEEL JOHNSON

Overall Athlete: MYLES GARRETT

Spin Move: CALEB BRANTLEY (meh class for it)

Rip/Speed Move: MYLES GARRETT

Push-Pull Move: JONATHAN ALLEN

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The LBC


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Joined: 12 Jan 2008
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Location: Where We Can't Have Nice Things
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
ArodFanboy wrote:
I'm officially worried about Jonathon Allen while loving him throughout the process before this shoulder stuff came out. Those types of problems do not age well in defensive lineman at all. Could be the kind of player who is great for about 5 years, when healthy and then falls off of a cliff because he can't engage NFL level offensive lineman anymore well with his hands/upper body despite having the anchor/lower half for it.


Am I the only one that doesn't really see it with his game? To me his game is pretty reminiscent of what Jonathan Bullard was last year, and the biggest difference is that he plays on an Alabama DL that shifts the attention away from him on every play, and he's almost every play left 1 v 1 vs a OG. He's strong as you can imagine, but he isn't going to out athlete anyone in the NFL, even inside, and he tries to play a fineness game rushing the passer, and just ends up sitting there playing patty cake with the OL FAR too often.

We've talked about this in length on Twitter so you know I'm in the same boat as you. I do think we're probably guilty of overthinking some, but that doesn't mean we're off either. I think he's being overhyped and oversold as a surefire Top 10 talent, because I just plain don't see a position (and I'm talking a spot in the line and a regular technique here) that he projects to threaten "elite" status at - which is what I want out of a Top 10 pick defender. Allen is Tyson Jackson, except that then you throw in that he's got long-term health concerns that could limit the length of his career (again, people can talk all they want about, "Oh, if I get 5 years out of him, I'm good with the pick," but we saw last year how similar questions dropped a guy with a not-so-arguably higher ceiling in Myles Jack to the 2nd round).
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Chwf3rd25


Joined: 27 Aug 2015
Posts: 270
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do people think of the day 3 DTs (Vanderdoes, Ogunjobi, Qualls, Smart, Jones, Tomlinson, Taylor, etc)? Do people have a specific preference for one of these guys? I am just starting to get into that tier and I like Vanderdoes but nobody else really stands out so far.
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jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 10163
Location: Indianapolis
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWood21 wrote:
Heimdallr wrote:
There is a difference between a low score and a 3. Getting a 3 on a test as easy as the Wonderlic puts you in the area of clinical retardation.


The implication that the player was taking the test seriously. And it still doesn't answer my question about how does him having a poor Wonderlic score directly affect his ability to understand and pick up a defense. It'd be one thing if he had academic issues throughout college, but you're using an outdated test to try and evaluate a player based on that.


He is in special needs in college. He has a leaning problem.
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BleedTheClock


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
Posts: 5381
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vanderdoes is going to be a really silent productive player. He is nowhere near as big, but he plays like Haloti Ngata. Just a bulldozer with a pretty good gas tank. Provides interior pressure on passing downs better than expected for a dude with such a sloppy frame. He's not really big enough to anchor a 3-4 NT position, so I see him more of a 2-Tech/1-Tech in a 4-3. He could play some UT if you need him to. But this is not a dude that fits the 3-4. He's not athletic enough to be in space and he's not overly long to deal with OT's locking him up. He could develop into a quality NT, but he's not more than 300 pounds right now.

I think he plays significant minutes as a young guy and ends up becoming a borderline pro bowl player. This isn't Aaron Donald or Ndamukong Suh, but I think he has a chance to be a nightmare taking on double teams and wearing out an interior OL.

Wouldn't be the craziest thing I've ever seen if someone took him in the 2nd round. But I think he'll probably end up in rounds 3-4.
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