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The 2017 QB Class Thread
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Who's the top QB prospect heading into '17?
D. Watson
32%
 32%  [ 58 ]
D. Kizer
19%
 19%  [ 35 ]
J. Dobbs
2%
 2%  [ 4 ]
M. Browne
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
B. Gustafson
0%
 0%  [ 1 ]
L. Falk
4%
 4%  [ 8 ]
P. Mahomes
5%
 5%  [ 10 ]
B. Kaaya
16%
 16%  [ 29 ]
B. Mayfield
1%
 1%  [ 3 ]
M. Johns
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
M. Rudolph
2%
 2%  [ 4 ]
J. O'Korn
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
G. Kiel
0%
 0%  [ 1 ]
J. Johnson
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
M. Leidner
1%
 1%  [ 2 ]
M. Trubisky
8%
 8%  [ 15 ]
J. Barrett
0%
 0%  [ 1 ]
A. Solomon
0%
 0%  [ 1 ]
C. Kelly
2%
 2%  [ 5 ]
T. Sirk
1%
 1%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 180

Author Message
blkwdw13


Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 2786
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWood21 wrote:
VanS wrote:
I don't get this fake expertise people feel they can get from watching a QB through the TV feed. We have no idea what the receivers or coverage are doing down the field.


So basically what you're saying is that unless you have 100% of the facts (or evidence), you're not entitled to an opinion? Because that's not logical. You use what tools you have (game cut ups, full games, etc.) to formulate an opinion of what you're discussing. And that goes beyond football. You make an opinion based on what tools you have available. You don't like it? You're probably not in the right forum.


I think he's just mad because Dobbs isn't the #1 rated QB.
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Chiefer


Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Posts: 13846
Location: Somewhere in an Arizona Desert...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So anyways, thoughts on Chad Kelly?
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Death, taxes, Andy Reid coming off a bye week.
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Epyon


Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 447
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonanza23 wrote:
So can anybody reconcile Watson's inaccuracy to me?


It's a large part of the reason I'm on the Mahomes train.

Mahomes often throws with more accuracy sidearm, on the run, while jumping for height and being tripped.... than Watson tends to show even when passing from a clean pocket.. (and I'm only half joking).... Watson gets the ball near his playmakers well enough, but the actual ball placement often leaves a lot to be desired...
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indigo_rex


Joined: 03 Mar 2016
Posts: 211
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWood21 wrote:
indigo_rex wrote:
When you say that people are too reactionary, are you referring to people on this forum? I haven't seen any posters go from saying he's a 2nd RD QB to #1 overall pick - or anything similar. My experience has been that people who were high on him are still high on him, and people with concerns still have the same concerns. Just curious, because I've seen similar sentiments posted pretty frequently since Minday night.


I was speaking more in general. You've got the casual fans who tunes into watch SportsCenter or whatever and hears his name said often, so they immediately connect him as a good NFL player since you know good CFB players = good NFL players. And if you're not watching him play and analyzing what he does well and what he doesn't, that National Championship game was arguably one of his best games against arguably one of the best teams in recent years. That creates momentum regardless of where you stood on him prior to that. For me, I was probably over-critical of him early on and he's probably going to end up "rising" up the draft board. Does that mean I think more highly of him after that game? No, it just means his draft stock is settling where it was supposed to.


Appreciate the explanation. There will always be people that want to take Tim Tebow #1 overall based on college success. I mean, the Titans took V. Young #3 overall. Neither Vick or RG3 had particularly translatable traits, so the NFL isn't immune. I don't think Watson is very similar to any of these players, but maybe I'm missing something. I see claims that Mahomes is more accurate than Watson, and Mahomes is a mess - a talented mess, but his footwork and ball placement is all over the place.

For much of the draft community, I think there's a tendency to bypass the obvious answer. We saw many people rate RG3 ahead of Luck, and we saw people knock Winston - many saying they wouldn't take him in the top 10. This year, we're seeing random QB's with much more significant questions rated ahead of Watson - Trubisky, Kizer, Mahomes. For some reason, people don't have a problem with these QB's running college-style spread offenses, but for Watson, it's a major concern. To each his own, but the inconsistency in approach seems silly to me.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6905
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonanza23 wrote:
So can anybody reconcile Watson's inaccuracy to me?


I'll have a better answer for you in about two months, but from what I have observed, the ball tends to sail for him for two main reasons:

1. He over-strides in his lower half sometimes, and that causes his release point to be off and the ball to sail

2. He fails to follow through onto his front foot when releasing and snapping the ball off his hand, and when that happens his velocity suffers and the ball is released at a higher trajectory than what is needed for a particular throw


I'd drill him relentlessly on footwork and throwing motion / release point until that was second nature. I don't think being in a read-option offense really helps a QB with footwork as opposed to constantly being under center.

Outside of that, in 2015 he ranked 6th in the FBS for completing passes over 20 yards.

https://twitter.com/PFF_Steve/status/631292542781407232

42 yards into a bucket while getting drilled -- damned impressive.
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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PackersFSU


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Posts: 43
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
Bonanza23 wrote:
So can anybody reconcile Watson's inaccuracy to me?


I'll have a better answer for you in about two months, but from what I have observed, the ball tends to sail for him for two main reasons:

1. He over-strides in his lower half sometimes, and that causes his release point to be off and the ball to sail

2. He fails to follow through onto his front foot when releasing and snapping the ball off his hand, and when that happens his velocity suffers and the ball is released at a higher trajectory than what is needed for a particular throw


I'd drill him relentlessly on footwork and throwing motion / release point until that was second nature. I don't think being in a read-option offense really helps a QB with footwork as opposed to constantly being under center.

Outside of that, in 2015 he ranked 6th in the FBS for completing passes over 20 yards.

https://twitter.com/PFF_Steve/status/631292542781407232

42 yards into a bucket while getting drilled -- damned impressive.


Quality post. Over stride can really throw off the timing of your upper half. Supposed to be a race between your arm and your lower body machanics. Tom Bradys wide base and short stride method really narrows down the the room for error making him super consistent in his motion.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6905
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PackersFSU wrote:
G08 wrote:
Bonanza23 wrote:
So can anybody reconcile Watson's inaccuracy to me?


I'll have a better answer for you in about two months, but from what I have observed, the ball tends to sail for him for two main reasons:

1. He over-strides in his lower half sometimes, and that causes his release point to be off and the ball to sail

2. He fails to follow through onto his front foot when releasing and snapping the ball off his hand, and when that happens his velocity suffers and the ball is released at a higher trajectory than what is needed for a particular throw


I'd drill him relentlessly on footwork and throwing motion / release point until that was second nature. I don't think being in a read-option offense really helps a QB with footwork as opposed to constantly being under center.

Outside of that, in 2015 he ranked 6th in the FBS for completing passes over 20 yards.

https://twitter.com/PFF_Steve/status/631292542781407232

42 yards into a bucket while getting drilled -- damned impressive.


Quality post. Over stride can really throw off the timing of your upper half. Supposed to be a race between your arm and your lower body machanics. Tom Bradys wide base and short stride method really narrows down the the room for error making him super consistent in his motion.


Brady, mechanically, is the most consistently sound QB I have ever seen. It's robotic.
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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PackersFSU


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Posts: 43
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
PackersFSU wrote:
G08 wrote:
Bonanza23 wrote:
So can anybody reconcile Watson's inaccuracy to me?


I'll have a better answer for you in about two months, but from what I have observed, the ball tends to sail for him for two main reasons:

1. He over-strides in his lower half sometimes, and that causes his release point to be off and the ball to sail

2. He fails to follow through onto his front foot when releasing and snapping the ball off his hand, and when that happens his velocity suffers and the ball is released at a higher trajectory than what is needed for a particular throw


I'd drill him relentlessly on footwork and throwing motion / release point until that was second nature. I don't think being in a read-option offense really helps a QB with footwork as opposed to constantly being under center.

Outside of that, in 2015 he ranked 6th in the FBS for completing passes over 20 yards.

https://twitter.com/PFF_Steve/status/631292542781407232

42 yards into a bucket while getting drilled -- damned impressive.


Quality post. Over stride can really throw off the timing of your upper half. Supposed to be a race between your arm and your lower body machanics. Tom Bradys wide base and short stride method really narrows down the the room for error making him super consistent in his motion.


Brady, mechanically, is the most consistently sound QB I have ever seen. It's robotic.


I prefer Rodgers arm motion but as a whole Brady takes the cake. Rodgers gets Sloppy in the feet.
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wacko_flacko


Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 64
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of these 3 high upside QBs, who do you guys like the most and how would you rank these 3 in order, and what round will the be drafted?

Patrick Mahomes II
Josh Allen
Dashon Kizer
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6905
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wacko_flacko wrote:
Out of these 3 high upside QBs, who do you guys like the most and how would you rank these 3 in order, and what round will the be drafted?

Patrick Mahomes II
Josh Allen
Dashon Kizer


Allen is going back to school, so for me it would be Mahomes and then Kizer. I think Kizer is more pro ready (which is not saying much) but I prefer Mahomes overall as a prospect.
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 16525
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With Watson it is footwork.

His footwork needs an offseason of overhaul and repitition. It will help once he is not executing 3 sweep fakes on half of his plays. His feet are very busy in the pocket and he needs to slow down and just consistently throw with the same base.

I think you see this a lot from running QBs in spread systems.

I think it is easier to evaluate a more static spread/shotgun QB like Goff because they are not asked to threaten a run on a lot of passing plays, they can just set up and throw.
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John Fox
3-13 this season, 9-23 overall, 4-12 at home
Pathetic
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 16525
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still think it is a huge mistake for him no to go to the Senior Bowl.

2 teams desperate for a QB with the 1st, 3rd and 12th picks in the draft and one of your biggest assets is your preparation and off field make up.

He should go and make one of the teams fall deeply in love.
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John Fox
3-13 this season, 9-23 overall, 4-12 at home
Pathetic
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wukusimw


Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Posts: 711
Location: Vermilion
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe he wants to ride the energy of this game because he was just on another level than any of his other games. He played at his peak. Held on to the ball once in 4th where Anderson went for strip but somehow escaped. On several screen passes threw it the perfect height so as not to get batted down.

Get him in the senior bowl and maybe teams start wavering on him and continue to nitpick. Or he can train, nail the combine and interviews and have this game be the last vision of him playing until the draft.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6905
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wukusimw wrote:
Maybe he wants to ride the energy of this game because he was just on another level than any of his other games. He played at his peak. Held on to the ball once in 4th where Anderson went for strip but somehow escaped. On several screen passes threw it the perfect height so as not to get batted down.

Get him in the senior bowl and maybe teams start wavering on him and continue to nitpick. Or he can train, nail the combine and interviews and have this game be the last vision of him playing until the draft.


I think it's in his best interest to not go to the Senior Bowl. Let him holding up a Championship Trophy be the lasting image of his collegiate playing days.
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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CWood21


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonanza23 wrote:
So can anybody reconcile Watson's inaccuracy to me?


I'm not sure it's as much about inaccuracy, as it is decision making. At least that's what it is for me.
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bkobow05 wrote:
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