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The 2017 QB Class Thread
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Who's the top QB prospect heading into '17?
D. Watson
32%
 32%  [ 58 ]
D. Kizer
19%
 19%  [ 35 ]
J. Dobbs
2%
 2%  [ 4 ]
M. Browne
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
B. Gustafson
0%
 0%  [ 1 ]
L. Falk
4%
 4%  [ 8 ]
P. Mahomes
5%
 5%  [ 10 ]
B. Kaaya
16%
 16%  [ 29 ]
B. Mayfield
1%
 1%  [ 3 ]
M. Johns
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
M. Rudolph
2%
 2%  [ 4 ]
J. O'Korn
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
G. Kiel
0%
 0%  [ 1 ]
J. Johnson
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
M. Leidner
1%
 1%  [ 2 ]
M. Trubisky
8%
 8%  [ 15 ]
J. Barrett
0%
 0%  [ 1 ]
A. Solomon
0%
 0%  [ 1 ]
C. Kelly
2%
 2%  [ 5 ]
T. Sirk
1%
 1%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 180

Author Message
candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 58434
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I see plays like this, somebody tell me how Watson won't have a similar career to RG3.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4HojQGMUu20&feature=youtu.be

Is it fair? Maybe not, but his running style will cause him to get nailed.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
When I see plays like this, somebody tell me how Watson won't have a similar career to RG3.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4HojQGMUu20&feature=youtu.be

Is it fair? Maybe not, but his running style will cause him to get nailed.


Looking at that again, I think Fitzpatrick did him a favor there. Foster had him dead to rights. Would have been a worse hit if Fitzpatrick didn't knock him into the air. Laughing
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 68152
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

91jmay wrote:
As usual the pompous, egotistical self appointed gatekeepers of the draft forum have decreed something true so now we have to pretend it is self evident.

There is absolutely no way you can know whether Watson processes information quickly. You don't know what his scheme asks him to do, you don't know what his OC/QB coach is telling him.

Just bloviating nonsense in order to feel superior.


You don't have to pretend it's anything. There's always been room for plenty of debate in this forum. The "pompous, egotistical self appointed gatekeepers of the draft forum" often disagree and fight amongst themselves. Laughing

You're welcome to refute it or argue against it. Use film and other evidence.

However, don't come in throwing a temper tantrum because people are saying things you don't agree with, but you can't actually refute them.

There are many ways you can know, or at minimum attempt to know, whether Watson processes information quickly. They involve watching the games closely.

The nice thing about the Draft forum is having people who are knowledgeable about the game explain what they're seeing and break players down. Whether or not you agree with them, it makes for interesting conversation that you can learn from.

It's very much the opposite of NFL Gen, where things of substance are very rarely said. Basically, what I'm saying is if you can't contribute to this forum, stay in NFL Gen. We don't need an obnoxious troll.

If you can contribute to this forum, do so by breaking down the player rather than whining about the people you disagree with.

Sincerely,
A pompous, egotistical self appointed gatekeeper of the draft forum
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CalhounLambeau


Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 11435
Location: WI
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

91jmay wrote:
As usual the pompous, egotistical self appointed gatekeepers of the draft forum have decreed something true so now we have to pretend it is self evident. Just bloviating nonsense in order to feel superior.

We're just people pushing our opinions back and forth. Nothing more. If you want to complain about perceived forum hierarchies that don't exist, go ahead and waste your time.

91jmay wrote:
There is absolutely no way you can know whether Watson processes information quickly. You don't know what his scheme asks him to do, you don't know what his OC/QB coach is telling him.

Over the course of watching 30 games you can make a determination of a QB's processor regardless of scheme. Watson hasn't done the same thing every game over 30 games. He hasn't played within the scheme on every play. There are plenty of instances where you can gauge a quarterbacks processor. Like anything else we discuss here our determination might be proven incorrect down the road, but that's fine. Whether it be quarterback, linebacker, pass-rusher, safety, I feel like I can gauge fast and slow processors.
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Last edited by CalhounLambeau on Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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CalhounLambeau


Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 11435
Location: WI
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
When I see plays like this, somebody tell me how Watson won't have a similar career to RG3. Is it fair? Maybe not, but his running style will cause him to get nailed.

Deshaun Watson could end up getting hurt and have a miserable career. I can't rule it out. Watson had his knee injury when he was a skinny, awkward baby deer. His body has completely transformed over the past couple of years. It's actually quite incredible. Robert Griffin had really bad knock-knees. When he plants his knees invert giving him a much higher chance of knee injuries. Griffin was kind of the triple-threat for injury potential. 1. He couldn't handle being in the pocket and handling a complex offense. 2. He had the athleticism of an NFL wide receiver. 3. Inverted knees. It was literally a perfect storm for disaster. I can't imagine Watson falling into that kind of situation. I think he's smart enough to avoid having to play in a highly simplified offense that depends on his athleticism to move the ball. I think he and NFL teams are smart enough to realize he can't take those hits. He will always use his athleticism. But it will be mitigated in the NFL.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6767
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:

You don't have to pretend it's anything. There's always been room for plenty of debate in this forum. The "pompous, egotistical self appointed gatekeepers of the draft forum" often disagree and fight amongst themselves. Laughing

The nice thing about the Draft forum is having people who are knowledgeable about the game explain what they're seeing and break players down. Whether or not you agree with them, it makes for interesting conversation that you can learn from.

If you can contribute to this forum, do so by breaking down the player rather than whining about the people you disagree with.


CalhounLambeau wrote:
G08 wrote:
So the 98 Colts... Peyton Manning's rookie season, Marvin Harrison at WR, Marshall Faulk at RB... completes 56.7% of his passes, 6.5 yards per attempt, 26 TDs and 28 INTs. I guess I'm wondering what in that statistical season would tell you that you saw the sign.

I don't really get the point of this.


Yes, "interesting conversation that you can learn from" Laughing
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft

jrry32 wrote:
apples

When the defense allowed 20 pts or fewer, the Cutler-led Bears were 36-7
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Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 18912
Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
91jmay wrote:
As usual the pompous, egotistical self appointed gatekeepers of the draft forum have decreed something true so now we have to pretend it is self evident.

There is absolutely no way you can know whether Watson processes information quickly. You don't know what his scheme asks him to do, you don't know what his OC/QB coach is telling him.

Just bloviating nonsense in order to feel superior.


You don't have to pretend it's anything. There's always been room for plenty of debate in this forum. The "pompous, egotistical self appointed gatekeepers of the draft forum" often disagree and fight amongst themselves. Laughing

You're welcome to refute it or argue against it. Use film and other evidence.

However, don't come in throwing a temper tantrum because people are saying things you don't agree with, but you can't actually refute them.

There are many ways you can know, or at minimum attempt to know, whether Watson processes information quickly. They involve watching the games closely.

The nice thing about the Draft forum is having people who are knowledgeable about the game explain what they're seeing and break players down. Whether or not you agree with them, it makes for interesting conversation that you can learn from.

It's very much the opposite of NFL Gen, where things of substance are very rarely said. Basically, what I'm saying is if you can't contribute to this forum, stay in NFL Gen. We don't need an obnoxious troll.

If you can contribute to this forum, do so by breaking down the player rather than whining about the people you disagree with.

Sincerely,
A pompous, egotistical self appointed gatekeeper of the draft forum


I was going to say something similar to this. I'm not a super duper regular in here as I spend most of my draft energy in the 49er forum draft thread, but I do my research, establish my opinions. I've never had major blowback from my opinion of a prospect in here. I just posted a long write up on Josh Allen earlier in this thread - I'm already on record stating that if he comes out, he's my top quarterback in this class. I know that a lot of people don't agree with that. But I didn't get any major pushback on my opinion though people may not agree with it. I could have backed up what I said with film, visual evidence, etc if needed to try and support what I was saying. At that point, even if someone disagrees with me, at least they know I'm not just throwing things out there without support. We may disagree on what we see, but that's just the way evaluating is, and I think (hope) that everyone understands that.

I do think that it requires a thicker skin to be in the draft forum than say NFL gen. I'd like to think that is because, as Jrry alluded to, we have some very knowledgeable posters in here with a limited tolerance for nonsense (and not, I'm not saying that some of the recent opinions on Watson are nonsense - I'm just talking in general) and maybe a higher standard for supporting your opinions? In the NFL Gen forum, you can chalk up a lot of things to overtly trollish behavior, homerism, etc. You don't really get that in here. I feel that its more about actual, differing opinions coming together.
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CWood21


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Joined: 27 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

91jmay wrote:
As usual the pompous, egotistical self appointed gatekeepers of the draft forum have decreed something true so now we have to pretend it is self evident.

There is absolutely no way you can know whether Watson processes information quickly. You don't know what his scheme asks him to do, you don't know what his OC/QB coach is telling him.

Just bloviating nonsense in order to feel superior.


Really unnecessary 91jmay. We're here talking about draft prospects, you're more than welcome to add your opinion but taking shots at posters won't be tolerated.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 16340
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great read on Watson.

They interview McCown, Randall Cunningham and Mike Shannahan.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/01/11/nfl-draft-deshaun-watson-stock-round-scouting-report-mike-shanahan-josh-mccown-randall-cunningham
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CWood21


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Great read on Watson.

They interview McCown, Randall Cunningham and Mike Shannahan.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/01/11/nfl-draft-deshaun-watson-stock-round-scouting-report-mike-shanahan-josh-mccown-randall-cunningham


He's not a bad player, people are just too reactionary to these kind of things. Admittedly, I didn't watch the entire game in fact I really only watched the last 7ish minutes of the game. He didn't really show anything he didn't in the previous 29 games than what he showed in the National Championship. He's a dual-threat QB who can make everythrow, but has some questionable decision making skills.
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bkobow05 wrote:
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goldfishwars


Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 11878
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No idea what 91jmay is on about, I'd never take shots at another board member with vastly inferior opinions to mine.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6767
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

goldfishwars wrote:
No idea what 91jmay is on about, I'd never take shots at another board member with vastly inferior opinions to mine.


Laughing
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft

jrry32 wrote:
apples

When the defense allowed 20 pts or fewer, the Cutler-led Bears were 36-7
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indigo_rex


Joined: 03 Mar 2016
Posts: 208
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWood21 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Great read on Watson.

They interview McCown, Randall Cunningham and Mike Shannahan.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/01/11/nfl-draft-deshaun-watson-stock-round-scouting-report-mike-shanahan-josh-mccown-randall-cunningham


He's not a bad player, people are just too reactionary to these kind of things. Admittedly, I didn't watch the entire game in fact I really only watched the last 7ish minutes of the game. He didn't really show anything he didn't in the previous 29 games than what he showed in the National Championship. He's a dual-threat QB who can make everythrow, but has some questionable decision making skills.


When you say that people are too reactionary, are you referring to people on this forum? I haven't seen any posters go from saying he's a 2nd RD QB to #1 overall pick - or anything similar. My experience has been that people who were high on him are still high on him, and people with concerns still have the same concerns. Just curious, because I've seen similar sentiments posted pretty frequently since Minday night.
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Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 18912
Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

indigo_rex wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Great read on Watson.

They interview McCown, Randall Cunningham and Mike Shannahan.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/01/11/nfl-draft-deshaun-watson-stock-round-scouting-report-mike-shanahan-josh-mccown-randall-cunningham


He's not a bad player, people are just too reactionary to these kind of things. Admittedly, I didn't watch the entire game in fact I really only watched the last 7ish minutes of the game. He didn't really show anything he didn't in the previous 29 games than what he showed in the National Championship. He's a dual-threat QB who can make everythrow, but has some questionable decision making skills.


When you say that people are too reactionary, are you referring to people on this forum? I haven't seen any posters go from saying he's a 2nd RD QB to #1 overall pick - or anything similar. My experience has been that people who were high on him are still high on him, and people with concerns still have the same concerns. Just curious, because I've seen similar sentiments posted pretty frequently since Minday night.


I've seen people update where they think he goes in the draft, but I don't know that those individuals have changed their own opinion on him.
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VanS


Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Posts: 314
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

91jmay wrote:
As usual the pompous, egotistical self appointed gatekeepers of the draft forum have decreed something true so now we have to pretend it is self evident.

There is absolutely no way you can know whether Watson processes information quickly. You don't know what his scheme asks him to do, you don't know what his OC/QB coach is telling him.

Just bloviating nonsense in order to feel superior.


Exactly.

I don't get this fake expertise people feel they can get from watching a QB through the TV feed. We have no idea what the receivers or coverage are doing down the field.
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