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2016-2017 Chargers Season Thread
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How many wins will we accumulate
12 or more
12%
 12%  [ 3 ]
11
8%
 8%  [ 2 ]
10
12%
 12%  [ 3 ]
9
20%
 20%  [ 5 ]
8
16%
 16%  [ 4 ]
7 or Less
32%
 32%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 25

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Zappaz


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hank Bauer ‏@hank_bauer 9h9 hours ago
Per ESPN, Rivers, pressured 31 of 51 dropbacks in Denver most for any QB in a game in the last 8 seasons! 61%!!
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MrDrew


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In case you guys didn't know, Gates was a basketball player in college. He still uses his body to box out defenders better than any other TE in the league. He is still a real RZ threat, but he's no longer the only one on the team. He can still get himself open, but it's not going to happen when it's obvious they're going to him. Gordon was running well, Rivers has a great PA fake, and the ball was on the 2. There is no excuse to do what they did.

I was saying it last year, and I'll say it again... Barksdale is not a good RT. He gets tossed around, and has a lot of stupid penalties. He can't hold up against bigger rushers, and isn't quick enough to handle the fast ones. Fluker struggled with faster guys, but at least he never looked like a rag doll on the GL.
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrDrew wrote:
In case you guys didn't know, Gates was a basketball player in college. He still uses his body to box out defenders better than any other TE in the league. He is still a real RZ threat, but he's no longer the only one on the team. He can still get himself open, but it's not going to happen when it's obvious they're going to him. Gordon was running well, Rivers has a great PA fake, and the ball was on the 2. There is no excuse to do what they did.

I was saying it last year, and I'll say it again... Barksdale is not a good RT. He gets tossed around, and has a lot of stupid penalties. He can't hold up against bigger rushers, and isn't quick enough to handle the fast ones. Fluker struggled with faster guys, but at least he never looked like a rag doll on the GL.

Yeah, but that was because he almost never got a hand on his man (who just blew right by him) thus there was no ragdolling to be done by the rusher in order to shed his block.
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Highboltage55


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrDrew wrote:
In case you guys didn't know, Gates was a basketball player in college. He still uses his body to box out defenders better than any other TE in the league. He is still a real RZ threat, but he's no longer the only one on the team. He can still get himself open, but it's not going to happen when it's obvious they're going to him. Gordon was running well, Rivers has a great PA fake, and the ball was on the 2. There is no excuse to do what they did.


Gates is still solid in the "short" routes like a "Stick" concept-he is great at finding holes in the zone and like you said boxing guys out within the 5-10 yard range. He was really struggling to get separation the other day and Phil was constantly overthrowing him (usually it was "safe" and he made it so only Gates would be able to come down with the ball).

Honestly he looks like he has lost 2 steps in the athleticism department, but he still had some solid/crucial catches against Denver in the first matchup at home (converted some big third downs). He seems to be dropping some easy passes (the first throw of the Denver game @ home), I don't know if it is a mental lapse or the fact other guys can "stick to him"/cover him better now.

Overall the torch has been passed to HH, I still don't mind Gates being on the field as a "potential decoy" (I would rather see him out there than Griff Whalen...), but as you guys have mentioned they need to quit trying to force him the ball and make him the #1 read at times.
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MrDrew


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
MrDrew wrote:
In case you guys didn't know, Gates was a basketball player in college. He still uses his body to box out defenders better than any other TE in the league. He is still a real RZ threat, but he's no longer the only one on the team. He can still get himself open, but it's not going to happen when it's obvious they're going to him. Gordon was running well, Rivers has a great PA fake, and the ball was on the 2. There is no excuse to do what they did.

I was saying it last year, and I'll say it again... Barksdale is not a good RT. He gets tossed around, and has a lot of stupid penalties. He can't hold up against bigger rushers, and isn't quick enough to handle the fast ones. Fluker struggled with faster guys, but at least he never looked like a rag doll on the GL.

Yeah, but that was because he almost never got a hand on his man (who just blew right by him) thus there was no ragdolling to be done by the rusher in order to shed his block.


GL is where he was at his best. Shotgun created the problems. I still say he was better than Barksdale overall.
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Neutral


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like Prop C is about to go down. Now what does Spanos do?
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MrDrew


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neutral wrote:
Looks like Prop C is about to go down. Now what does Spanos do?


You go where there's a stadium, and the money is. Unless they can come up with a good proposal really fast, it will be the LA Chargers(?) starting in 2017.
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Zappaz


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrDrew wrote:
Neutral wrote:
Looks like Prop C is about to go down. Now what does Spanos do?


You go where there's a stadium, and the money is. Unless they can come up with a good proposal really fast, it will be the LA Chargers(?) starting in 2017.


I kind of agree. Gonna be odd being the LA Chargers playing the Vegas Raiders...
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrDrew wrote:
Neutral wrote:
Looks like Prop C is about to go down. Now what does Spanos do?


You go where there's a stadium, and the money is. Unless they can come up with a good proposal really fast, it will be the LA Chargers(?) starting in 2017.

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if he at the very least rides out the lease which isn't up until 2020. And in the interim, I wouldn't be surprised to see the family (probably via side enterprise or covert organization) funnel money towards whoever Falcouner's opponent is in the next mayoral race.

Ultimately, though I'm still not sure it would actually happen, San Diego really ought to try and put out a stadium proposal/initiative that builds a stadium, which is then leased to Spanos (and affords him a percentage of the non-Chargers-related revenue proportionate to how much he invests into subsidizing the project - up to a certain amount). If the revenue from Final Fours, concerts, (I don't think you can count Super Bowls, because the league technically structures that as "the team is hosting" as a cowtow to its ownership), etc. is being recouped by the city/county to offset costs, I'm not sure where the "we don't want to raise taxes" argument holds a ton of water. And unfortunately the, "He's a rich SOB, he shouldn't need to have a stadium built for him," argument is just walking in overly-idealistic circles of fantasy.
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chargerbuckeye


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zappaz wrote:
MrDrew wrote:
Neutral wrote:
Looks like Prop C is about to go down. Now what does Spanos do?


You go where there's a stadium, and the money is. Unless they can come up with a good proposal really fast, it will be the LA Chargers(?) starting in 2017.


I kind of agree. Gonna be odd being the LA Chargers playing the Vegas Raiders...


Raiders aren't going to vegas. They are staying in Oakland. The owners apparently hate the idea of a team in las vegas and that the raiders need 24 of 32 owners to approve the move. It looks unlikely from what I have been hearing out here in the bay area.

As for the chargers, they won't announce a move until they are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.
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Highboltage55


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like our current ceiling is "8-8" but realistically I think we go 7-9 to finish the season.

I hope McCoy & Co. are gone, I think we need a new leader, coaching philosophies and voice for this team. Who would that be exactly? I think it would be very "chargeresque" if they hire a recently fired Marvin Lewis.

I would like to see someone who has previous head coaching experience. If someone like Sean Payton (doubt it) became available I would be ecstatic. I was bummed when Mike Zimmer and Hue Jackson were plucked and given jobs in recent years.

I don't think they will hire an "up and coming coordinator" who has yet to have Head Coaching experience after McCoy. Kyle Shannahan and Sean McDermott are the two main guys that come to mind, even though McDermott has had a rough year so far. I do think Shannahan's "One-Cut" Zone system would do wonders for Gordon, but I don't think we look his way.

In terms of personnel I am curios about Melvin Ingram. I think he likely will command somewhere in the $12 -14 Million range, and would you keep him at that rate? He has so far developed nice chemistry with Bosa and has progressed these past two seasons, but has been inconsistent and slightly injury prone early in his career. Ingram does a lot of things well, but isn't a "demon" at rushing the passer like Von Miller.
I could see us retaining him, but also letting him walk and hoping Emmanual/Attaouchu can play in rotation with a potential draftee ? Hypothetically if we also had a "scheme" change, something more along the lines of a traditional 4-3 (i.e. Seattle/Carolina) we could see Brown (WOLB), Perryman (MLB) and Toomer (SLB?) playing. Attaouchu / Emmanual could also play SAM depending on scheme.
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more I'm thinking about this little Shanny Idea the more it intrigues me.

He's on another level playcalling wise, which is awesome and its something that would really help us out. Gordon is perfect for his scheme, and I think we'd be an attractive team for him for a few different reasons. First, he gets to hand pick a lot of his guys. We're a pretty well built team, but he'll get a lot of say for the next wave of guys we have coming up pretty soon. He's going to get a lot of say in who we bring in to be the future at LT, QB, C (although Turek fits his scheme awesomely, and Pully is a pretty damn good fit too) among some other positions. So he'll get to hand pick his guys. If we end up after next year with a starting OL of Draftee-Franklin-Turek-Pulley-Barksdale, I think we would be fine with his scheming. Honestly, just watching him a little bit, I could definitely see a guy like Baker Mayfield having some success in Shanny's offense.

Unlike Campbell, he's got more than enough time in the league to develop a solid coaching staff (and has worked with enough good coaches to make that happen). Just doing some research, its interesting that a LOT of his Washington staff followed him to Atlanta. Between LaFluer, Bobby Turner, and this guy Mike McDaniel, who seems like he's followed Shanny everywhere as an offensive assistant. He seems like he's got a pretty loyal staff, and has a solid group of "his guys"
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
The more I'm thinking about this little Shanny Idea the more it intrigues me.

He's on another level playcalling wise, which is awesome and its something that would really help us out. Gordon is perfect for his scheme, and I think we'd be an attractive team for him for a few different reasons. First, he gets to hand pick a lot of his guys. We're a pretty well built team, but he'll get a lot of say for the next wave of guys we have coming up pretty soon. He's going to get a lot of say in who we bring in to be the future at LT, QB, C (although Turek fits his scheme awesomely, and Pully is a pretty damn good fit too) among some other positions. So he'll get to hand pick his guys. If we end up after next year with a starting OL of Draftee-Franklin-Turek-Pulley-Barksdale, I think we would be fine with his scheming. Honestly, just watching him a little bit, I could definitely see a guy like Baker Mayfield having some success in Shanny's offense.

Unlike Campbell, he's got more than enough time in the league to develop a solid coaching staff (and has worked with enough good coaches to make that happen). Just doing some research, its interesting that a LOT of his Washington staff followed him to Atlanta. Between LaFluer, Bobby Turner, and this guy Mike McDaniel, who seems like he's followed Shanny everywhere as an offensive assistant. He seems like he's got a pretty loyal staff, and has a solid group of "his guys"

You have to figure that (and you an't always say this for all "next-gen" coaches) Kyle's mentor was/is always his father. And if he could glean anything from his father, it's that you don't want to go somewhere as a HC unless you're confident in your QB situation. Shanny came into a gig in Los Angeles (Raiders) with multiple HOF'ers on his roster, including Marcus Allen, a freshly drafted Tim Brown, Howie Long (as well as the added bonus of Bo Jackson), but his Achilles heel was that his QB was Jay freakin' Schroeder.

When he took an OC gig, it was to work with Montana and Young. When he accepted another HC gig, it was with John Elway already in place - which then afforded him the opportunity to plan ahead, knowing he had an aging-if-still-very-good QB and ease the transition, first to Jake Plummer and then to Jay Cutler. When he came onboard to coach Washington, he made having final say in personnel matters included as part of his agreement to come onboard, so that he could bring in guys like McNabb and Grossman (his Plummer-equivalents in Washington) to bridge to his attempt to find the more long-term solution, and when he had a shot at a premier QB prospect in 2012, he made sure he pulled the trigger.

Now, hindsight being what it is, the argument can definitely be made that Shanny out-thought himself and could/should have just stayed where he was at to draft Russell Wilson (also a pretty ideal fit for a Shanahan WCO) with either his 1st, 2nd, or 3rd (all of which would have come and gone before Seattle took Wilson in the 3rd), but that's a fairly specious argument. Or is it? [link] Straight from the man's mouth, they genuinely considered drafting Russell in the 3rd, even with RG3 already in tow.

All that said... prep yourselves for Marvin Lewis.
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:
The more I'm thinking about this little Shanny Idea the more it intrigues me.

He's on another level playcalling wise, which is awesome and its something that would really help us out. Gordon is perfect for his scheme, and I think we'd be an attractive team for him for a few different reasons. First, he gets to hand pick a lot of his guys. We're a pretty well built team, but he'll get a lot of say for the next wave of guys we have coming up pretty soon. He's going to get a lot of say in who we bring in to be the future at LT, QB, C (although Turek fits his scheme awesomely, and Pully is a pretty damn good fit too) among some other positions. So he'll get to hand pick his guys. If we end up after next year with a starting OL of Draftee-Franklin-Turek-Pulley-Barksdale, I think we would be fine with his scheming. Honestly, just watching him a little bit, I could definitely see a guy like Baker Mayfield having some success in Shanny's offense.

Unlike Campbell, he's got more than enough time in the league to develop a solid coaching staff (and has worked with enough good coaches to make that happen). Just doing some research, its interesting that a LOT of his Washington staff followed him to Atlanta. Between LaFluer, Bobby Turner, and this guy Mike McDaniel, who seems like he's followed Shanny everywhere as an offensive assistant. He seems like he's got a pretty loyal staff, and has a solid group of "his guys"

You have to figure that (and you an't always say this for all "next-gen" coaches) Kyle's mentor was/is always his father. And if he could glean anything from his father, it's that you don't want to go somewhere as a HC unless you're confident in your QB situation. Shanny came into a gig in Los Angeles (Raiders) with multiple HOF'ers on his roster, including Marcus Allen, a freshly drafted Tim Brown, Howie Long (as well as the added bonus of Bo Jackson), but his Achilles heel was that his QB was Jay freakin' Schroeder.

When he took an OC gig, it was to work with Montana and Young. When he accepted another HC gig, it was with John Elway already in place - which then afforded him the opportunity to plan ahead, knowing he had an aging-if-still-very-good QB and ease the transition, first to Jake Plummer and then to Jay Cutler. When he came onboard to coach Washington, he made having final say in personnel matters included as part of his agreement to come onboard, so that he could bring in guys like McNabb and Grossman (his Plummer-equivalents in Washington) to bridge to his attempt to find the more long-term solution, and when he had a shot at a premier QB prospect in 2012, he made sure he pulled the trigger.

Now, hindsight being what it is, the argument can definitely be made that Shanny out-thought himself and could/should have just stayed where he was at to draft Russell Wilson (also a pretty ideal fit for a Shanahan WCO) with either his 1st, 2nd, or 3rd (all of which would have come and gone before Seattle took Wilson in the 3rd), but that's a fairly specious argument. Or is it? [link] Straight from the man's mouth, they genuinely considered drafting Russell in the 3rd, even with RG3 already in tow.

All that said... prep yourselves for Marvin Lewis.


But you can also point out how damn good RGIII was in that offense until he got hurt. He threw for 6500 yards and rushed for another 1300 in 2 years (missing 3 games). He would actually be an interesting pet project if he got brought in and used as a backup for Rivers is we did hire Shanny.

But Shanny seems like a fairly good identifier of QB's (specifically ones that fit his scheme), so that would be a REAL nice thing to have around now.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
The LBC wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:
The more I'm thinking about this little Shanny Idea the more it intrigues me.

He's on another level playcalling wise, which is awesome and its something that would really help us out. Gordon is perfect for his scheme, and I think we'd be an attractive team for him for a few different reasons. First, he gets to hand pick a lot of his guys. We're a pretty well built team, but he'll get a lot of say for the next wave of guys we have coming up pretty soon. He's going to get a lot of say in who we bring in to be the future at LT, QB, C (although Turek fits his scheme awesomely, and Pully is a pretty damn good fit too) among some other positions. So he'll get to hand pick his guys. If we end up after next year with a starting OL of Draftee-Franklin-Turek-Pulley-Barksdale, I think we would be fine with his scheming. Honestly, just watching him a little bit, I could definitely see a guy like Baker Mayfield having some success in Shanny's offense.

Unlike Campbell, he's got more than enough time in the league to develop a solid coaching staff (and has worked with enough good coaches to make that happen). Just doing some research, its interesting that a LOT of his Washington staff followed him to Atlanta. Between LaFluer, Bobby Turner, and this guy Mike McDaniel, who seems like he's followed Shanny everywhere as an offensive assistant. He seems like he's got a pretty loyal staff, and has a solid group of "his guys"

You have to figure that (and you an't always say this for all "next-gen" coaches) Kyle's mentor was/is always his father. And if he could glean anything from his father, it's that you don't want to go somewhere as a HC unless you're confident in your QB situation. Shanny came into a gig in Los Angeles (Raiders) with multiple HOF'ers on his roster, including Marcus Allen, a freshly drafted Tim Brown, Howie Long (as well as the added bonus of Bo Jackson), but his Achilles heel was that his QB was Jay freakin' Schroeder.

When he took an OC gig, it was to work with Montana and Young. When he accepted another HC gig, it was with John Elway already in place - which then afforded him the opportunity to plan ahead, knowing he had an aging-if-still-very-good QB and ease the transition, first to Jake Plummer and then to Jay Cutler. When he came onboard to coach Washington, he made having final say in personnel matters included as part of his agreement to come onboard, so that he could bring in guys like McNabb and Grossman (his Plummer-equivalents in Washington) to bridge to his attempt to find the more long-term solution, and when he had a shot at a premier QB prospect in 2012, he made sure he pulled the trigger.

Now, hindsight being what it is, the argument can definitely be made that Shanny out-thought himself and could/should have just stayed where he was at to draft Russell Wilson (also a pretty ideal fit for a Shanahan WCO) with either his 1st, 2nd, or 3rd (all of which would have come and gone before Seattle took Wilson in the 3rd), but that's a fairly specious argument. Or is it? [link] Straight from the man's mouth, they genuinely considered drafting Russell in the 3rd, even with RG3 already in tow.

All that said... prep yourselves for Marvin Lewis.


But you can also point out how damn good RGIII was in that offense until he got hurt. He threw for 6500 yards and rushed for another 1300 in 2 years (missing 3 games). He would actually be an interesting pet project if he got brought in and used as a backup for Rivers is we did hire Shanny.

But Shanny seems like a fairly good identifier of QB's (specifically ones that fit his scheme), so that would be a REAL nice thing to have around now.

This is true, I just look at the QB's who have typically had the most success in Shanahan offenses - they're the more cerebral ones. RG3 put up numbers because he was Vick-lite with considerably better accuracy - once teams got tape on him and forced him to either commit to scrambling or to making a choice between two less-than-preferable reads, his efficiency and performance started to wane. Wilson (minus perhaps the height) is pretty much the ideal fit for a Shanahan offense - not dissimilar to how Steve Young was; mobile enough to run those bootleg passes, savvy enough to know how to consistently move defenders to sell them on one receiving threat only to quickly shift and hit a different one who just had all or most of the defenders in the space around him cleared out.

What I think is the bigger selling point for me is that there's a consistent track record of that scheme (and the primary proponents of that scheme) to find success several times over with players who don't fit the out-and-out prototype (e.g. Big Ben) of the 6'4"+, 230 lbs QB coming out of a pro-style offense with a cannon mounted to his shoulder. Because those are fewer and further between coming out of the BCS.
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