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2016-2017 Chargers Season Thread
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How many wins will we accumulate
12 or more
12%
 12%  [ 3 ]
11
8%
 8%  [ 2 ]
10
12%
 12%  [ 3 ]
9
20%
 20%  [ 5 ]
8
16%
 16%  [ 4 ]
7 or Less
32%
 32%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 25

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Duffman57


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 9452
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlonzoHarris wrote:
You know, Perryman was one of my favorite players coming out of College. I was very happy with that pick.
Now, playing along with Jatavis, they are two very strong players with a compact frame, which makes them more agile.
But that also means that they are not very tall and Jatavis is kind of a light for a linebacker. The combination of the two is working well so far.
Many teams are using linebackers at nickel, maybe Jatavis will become our 'moneybacker'. Him or McCoil, another player who has some upside.

Gordon is looking good, became the 'td machine', love him on my fantasy team and on the Chargers he's doing his part and he's been good, but he's got a very north-south style of running, doesn't he?
Some people say that they don't give him enough runs outside, but I think that's just how it is with him.

He 'bounces' a lot on the defense trying to tackle him, it's kind of funny. Against Atlanta I think I saw him hit defenders head on, avoid the tackle and then run to another direction a few times. That shows how hard he runs and how strong he is, but guys like Bell from the Steelers would probably change direction BEFORE 'bouncing' on anyone and would see if there is a lane to run through and then quickly get there.
I don't think Gordon will ever have that much vision and quick decision-making...

And he is seeing like half of the Chargers snaps on offense, we need to get someone to form a one-two punch to go along with him or his career gonna be short.


I still haven't figured out the whole Jatavis being small for a LB. I mean sure he's not the tallest at just a hair under 6' (IIRC he's just over 5'11"), as is Perryman, but at his pro day (or combine or whatever it was), he was 227, and I'm willing to bet he added a few lb's in the NFL to get him up over 230. Its not like that's a tiny LB, its basically on par with every WLB in the same category (Thomas Davis, Lavonte David, Shazier, Telvin Smith, Deone Jones, Darron Lee to name a few and significantly bigger than Buchanon or Barron who are the other "moneybackers"). Its just the way the NFL is going, smaller, more compact, but still very physical LB's.

Gordon has really changed his running style this year and he's been rewarded for it. He's basically become a "slasher" type runner. I've said it all along, and even at Wiscy, he really reminded me of DeMarco Murray. High cut, athletic runner, who loved to bounce everything outside, and use their quickness to make guys miss in space. Murray came into the NFL, and added 10-15 lbs (as did MGIII), and became much more of a north south runner, who makes guys miss in the hole rather than outside. Gordon's vision is definitely a work in progress, but its coming along just fine. Much improved from last year.

As for the run vs ATL, I guess I get what you're getting at, but him pressing the LOS like that created the lane outside. At the beginning of the run, Brooks Reed had the edge COMPLETELY sealed, and when MGIII went into the hole he gave up his outside leverage and collapsed inside, giving MGIII just enough space to get outside of him and get 10=15 yards.

Honestly, I think he could be a legitimate 3 down back like he is now. We need someone else there that can spell him for sure, unlike Farrow, but I don't think we need to spend a high pick on a back. A big, downhill runner to compliment him and Woodhead would be nice. Someone like Royce Freeman, De'Onte Foreman, or Kalen Ballage would be awesome.
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MrDrew wrote:
Everything about Rivers is Awkward, reminiscent of a Giraffe with Down's Syndrome
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AlonzoHarris


Joined: 09 Jan 2011
Posts: 330
Location: Santa Ana
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
.
As for the run vs ATL, I guess I get what you're getting at, but him pressing the LOS like that created the lane outside. At the beginning of the run, Brooks Reed had the edge COMPLETELY sealed, and when MGIII went into the hole he gave up his outside leverage and collapsed inside, giving MGIII just enough space to get outside of him and get 10=15 yards.


If we are talking about the same play, the one Gordon bounces off Deon Jones and then changes direction for a long run on a 3rd and 1 in the 4th qtr, Reed maybe would really be able to get him if he had ran outside from the start, but at first he ran straight at three Falcons defenders with only one of them blocked as they were all waiting for the run on a 3rd and 1 and he was likely going down with a loss of yards there. I'm not sure him shaking off the tackle by Jones was really necessary to set up the gains afterwards.

Saw Bell escape running outside, while the edge had a blocker apparently beaten more than a few times against NE.
But then he gets away with gains when there's nothing there maybe more often than anyone else...
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Duffman57


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 9452
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlonzoHarris wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:
.
As for the run vs ATL, I guess I get what you're getting at, but him pressing the LOS like that created the lane outside. At the beginning of the run, Brooks Reed had the edge COMPLETELY sealed, and when MGIII went into the hole he gave up his outside leverage and collapsed inside, giving MGIII just enough space to get outside of him and get 10=15 yards.


If we are talking about the same play, the one Gordon bounces off Deon Jones and then changes direction for a long run on a 3rd and 1 in the 4th qtr, Reed maybe would really be able to get him if he had ran outside from the start, but at first he ran straight at three Falcons defenders with only one of them blocked as they were all waiting for the run on a 3rd and 1 and he was likely going down with a loss of yards there. I'm not sure him shaking off the tackle by Jones was really necessary to set up the gains afterwards.

Saw Bell escape running outside, while the edge had a blocker apparently beaten more than a few times against NE.
But then he gets away with gains when there's nothing there maybe more often than anyone else...


I mean, if you're talking about entirely changing the play yeah. That run was designed to hit the B gap on the right side, and you espect him to cut back all the way around the left edge, with a guy holding the edge just fine???? Seriously? Nobody is making that run. The Falcons D played that perfectly up until Deone Jones couldn't tackle.

So you're seriously telling me, that on THIS play...

http://imgur.com/a/7UvVz

Melvin Gordon should've bounced it all the way across the formation and tried to get around a guy who perfectly held the edge? Yeah not a chance....
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MrDrew wrote:
Everything about Rivers is Awkward, reminiscent of a Giraffe with Down's Syndrome
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AlonzoHarris


Joined: 09 Jan 2011
Posts: 330
Location: Santa Ana
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:

I mean, if you're talking about entirely changing the play yeah. That run was designed to hit the B gap on the right side, and you espect him to cut back all the way around the left edge, with a guy holding the edge just fine???? Seriously? Nobody is making that run. The Falcons D played that perfectly up until Deone Jones couldn't tackle.

So you're seriously telling me, that on THIS play...

http://imgur.com/a/7UvVz

Melvin Gordon should've bounced it all the way across the formation and tried to get around a guy who perfectly held the edge? Yeah not a chance....


I'm seriously telling you that, Duffman.
There are running backs that make something out of nothing and those are the elite. That play was broken if he insisted on going the way it was intended to.

Nobody is making that? Let me get you some examples then. I'll get like ten. Could be a hundred if you want. A RB makes a read after the snap and completely changes direction intended for the play - there's just too many examples of that.
Just let me get home.
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AlonzoHarris


Joined: 09 Jan 2011
Posts: 330
Location: Santa Ana
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just for the fact that there are three players on the side of the run and only one of them is blocked on the play while there's way more room on the other side already calls for a decision.

First day training the RB position at high school: read and reaction, "unblocked defender on your track".
CUT, get back to the LOS, minimize the loss of yardage.

You are going to debate fundamentals and act like it's an absurd what I'm proposing. Okay then.
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AlonzoHarris


Joined: 09 Jan 2011
Posts: 330
Location: Santa Ana
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gordon runs to where he's intended to:



Notice that there are two completely unblocked players on his track, including outside, one Charger player is not blocking anyone so Gordon could run behind him and wait for the blocks to develop. Deon Jones shed his block and is now with his hip turned to the right side, it's the guy who ended up trying to tackle him.
And notice that Slauson pushed his defender beyond the LOS.



Gordon insists and hits the hole, doesn't wait for the play to develop, gets tackled.



He bounces free, takes what's left for him. Usually, he would have gone down for a LOSS on a 3rd and 1 there.


Here... The big hole in the left created by the Chargers C Slauson. Get the inside hip of the blocker, explode, dive for the gain. It's a 3rd and 1, Melvin cuts to the side intended and the Chargers on most cases, would be on 4th down in the 4th quarter with 0:41, losing by 27-30.

Lightining fast decision-making, vision... Not to be found on this play.
But I get it. RB has been an underrated position, they just run where they are supposed to and the OL does everything. According to some fans they shouldn't even be worth a first round pick.

The play ended up well for him, but that was thanks to a bad tackle and his own talents.
I don't need to find one of probably, thousands of examples of plays where the RB makes this simple adjustments I'm calling for, right?
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BayRaider


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 4710
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to tell you guys you have a solid squad and solid future ahead. You guys are very balanced with a ton of young talent waiting to blossom. Raiders and Chargers are the future of the division. Besides the Patriors, the four AFCW teams are the four best teams in the AFC (with Ben injured anyways). Tough division. We all win the North or South imo.
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Duffman57


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 9452
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlonzoHarris wrote:
Just for the fact that there are three players on the side of the run and only one of them is blocked on the play while there's way more room on the other side already calls for a decision.

First day training the RB position at high school: read and reaction, "unblocked defender on your track".
CUT, get back to the LOS, minimize the loss of yardage.

You are going to debate fundamentals and act like it's an absurd what I'm proposing. Okay then.


Pictures don't tell the whole story on this play. As you can see from my picture, Gordon essentially had to start the cut outside before he even got the ball (already mid-cut as Rivers is handing it to him).

At that point, the DE had crossed the face inside of the playside TE, and most of the playside OL had the play crashed down.

What Gordon couldn't see at that point, was that Fluker had fallen down and Deion Jones had a free run at the hole. A play that was designed to get you 1-2 yards and not much more disregarding a massive mistake by the D.

On a situation where its 3rd and short or 4th and short, you don't dance behind the line, you don't do anything like that. You put your head down and try to churn out the yard you need. Its that simple. Unless there's a wide open hole (which there wasn't, was the left side of the OL a slightly better option? absolutely, was it a much less viable option? Absolutely). But on 3rd and short, the number one thing you don't do is completely stop your momentum to make a lateral move unless absolutely necessary, or again, if its wide open.

The view that you're showing doesn't really show it very well either. But in the picture that I showed, you can clearly see that 97 pinched on Barksdale and has clearly crossed his face, if Gordon runs that way, its an easy TFL for him. On that side as well 94 has (Watt? Henry? IDK who that is) completely stacked up and was in an easy position to shed and make a tackle if 97 didn't get there. And on top of that, Brooks Reed has outside contain perfectly held, so there's no chance to get outside.

This is one of those situations where you just have to hand it to the defense, they played it perfectly, and there was really nowhere for Gordon to go. Gordon has to just put his head down and trust himself to beat the man in front of him for a yard. He stood him up so he couldn't make a tackle, and bounced it out and by that time, Reed had collapsed on the edge and it was open. If he makes that bounce right away, there's nothing there.
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MrDrew wrote:
Everything about Rivers is Awkward, reminiscent of a Giraffe with Down's Syndrome
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Duffman57


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 9452
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlonzoHarris wrote:

Here... The big hole in the left created by the Chargers C Slauson. Get the inside hip of the blocker, explode, dive for the gain. It's a 3rd and 1, Melvin cuts to the side intended and the Chargers on most cases, would be on 4th down in the 4th quarter with 0:41, losing by 27-30.

Lightining fast decision-making, vision... Not to be found on this play.
But I get it. RB has been an underrated position, they just run where they are supposed to and the OL does everything. According to some fans they shouldn't even be worth a first round pick.


This is a good picture for you to prove you're point, but there's really no substance to it. If you look at the angle that my picture it taken at, it shows that there are 3 guys who have already crossed the OL's face opposite the play side, and one guy, who is burried behind the pile, who is unblocked because of a mistake by Fluker.

Also Slausen hadn't "pushed his man" down the field. He's blocking the WILB, De'Vondre Campbell. They stunted to the right side of the formation with 97 and whoever the outside backer on the left is. That seemingly (off the bat), left Gordon 1 on 1 with a CB to get 1 yard. Had Fluker not fallen, and given Jones a free shot at MGIII (something Gordon couldn't have possibly seen behind about 3 layers of blockers/defenders), we have the 1 yard EASY....But you're picture does do a great job of showing that Jones was entirely hidden by the OL and the lane to the right looked wide open, with Gates 1 on 1 with a S/CB and just a CB keeping outside contain to beat.
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Everything about Rivers is Awkward, reminiscent of a Giraffe with Down's Syndrome
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Highboltage55


Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Posts: 181
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Horrible News!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000729212/article/schottenheimer-battling-earlyonset-alzheimers

I have dealt with it in my family and it's horrible.. Hopefully the new drug they are testing shows positive signs, my thoughts and prayers are with them.
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charger-man


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denver's defense was just too dominant today, and they exposed our below-average offensive line. If Lambo makes the field goal and XP then maybe it's a different story, but Denver's D left very little room for error and Rivers was hit basically every play.

Really encouraged by the defense and MGIII though.
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Zappaz


Joined: 16 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saw that Rivers was pressured on 31 of 51 drop backs... He couldn't do anything. Plus with Williams going out and Benjamin also not 100%... it was a long day.

Not sure whats been up with Barksdale either, he has been pretty terrible this season. WAY too many mistakes and has been getting owned most every week.

Also, they need to do something with the special teams. Never do I feel like we are going to block a punt or kick, yet other teams seem to get so close or like today get that big block to change momentum.
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Highboltage55


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gordon looked great yesterday, it was dumbfounding they didn't even give him one chance to "punch it in" from the 2 yard line at least once...

I think this game showed he can be a"bell-cow" to carry/shoulder the load. Honestly Phil has always been best off of Play Action (they mentioned he if the most efficient QB in this regard) and I would love to see this team transition back towards a Power-Running team in similar mold of the Titans right now (or Seahawks under early Pete Carrol/Marshawn), we need to ditch the finesse attitude and get back to being more physical.

Phil tries to do too much and he had no time to operate yesterday. He also would take the clock down to the very last second, if the Defense knows this tendency they can just "pin their ears back" and blow by the Offensive Line.

I think if we stuck with the Run consistently (showed more signs this year than last), dominated time of possession and continued to play good Defense our team's record would be flipped. I am not going to label Rivers a "game-manager", but I think at this point in his career with the emergence of Gordon we should really scale back the amount of throws from the Shotgun/4-5 wide consistently and work more on the Play Action from under center. If we didn't have all these injuries we would be more productive in terms of "airing it out", but it comes back to the "square peg, round hole theory".

IDK why we have Griff Whalen out there... Waste of a spot, might as well bring in three tight ends and a fullback and pound the rock a 'la Jim Harbaugh. When Dontrelle Inman, a banged up Tyrell Williams/Travis Benjamin are your options-stick to what is working (i.e. running game).

Melvin was the first guy to put up a 100 yard game in the past 22 contests against the Broncos. Iirc he was averaging around 5.0 ypc yesterday, with many of those yards being "hard earned".

I don't like the fact they left Joe Barksdale "out to dry" against Von Miller 1 on 1 so frequently. Why not have Sean McGrath or even Hunter Henry "stay in" to help block Von?

Defense looked great overall, I was disappointed Lowery pulled off on Sanders (he could have potentially jarred the ball loose) and the holding call on the 1 yard line against Bosa was a bunch of bull, but the guys are playing hard (they just need to come down with those could have been interceptions).

At the rate we are going I think we finish around .500. This season is better than last, at least we have a lot of young guys "stepping up" and producing. The depth chart next year is going to be vastly different than when we started Week 1 of this year (Bosa, Henry, Tyrell Williams, Jatavis Brown).

I would just like to see the team continue to pile on the carries for Gordon and have him carry us the rest of the way. [/i]
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest positive to take away from yesterday is that McCoy's job isn't safe (which I firmly believe if he'd have swept the Broncos it would have been).

Whiz and he have been force-feeding passing the red-zone most of the season trying to get Gates the TD record. It's fairly obvious, particularly when you account for the fact that the most balanced our red-zone offense has been (arguably the whole of our offense has been) was when Gates was out injured. It's a common theme of this team under McCoy that if they can get an individual player an individual accomplishment or accolade, they tend to put more priority on that than actually winning the damn game.

Rivers said in the post-game presser that he didn't audible away from the run on any of the 4 play-calls from the 2, so they were all outright called as pass-plays.

There's talent on this team, but coaching can keep from stepping on their own members when it comes to properly using them.

I don't necessarily think that Barksdale is a bad RT. I don't believe that the partnership of him and Fluker is a good one because Fluker makes so many mental errors that Barksdale is being asked to be left on an island so often... and then having to account for Fluker either never helping or messing up and creating an opportunity for a defender to attack JB's near shoulder that he's never going to succeed in that pairing. I don't understand why they brought in Hairston at ROT, saw the offense notably improve, then stuck Barksdale back out there in place of Hairston again. Makes no sense.

Other thing I didn't get was that basic strategy says that if a pass-rusher is kicking your butt on one side, you run the ball right at that guy. It works two-fold to try and wear that rusher down and also to rebuild/establish the confidence of your OL who has been getting beaten, by allowing him to latch, drive, and (at least try to) bully the guy who has been beating him. At the very least, you try it to see if it works. Once Joe started getting beaten on the regular, I don't think we ran right for the rest of the afternoon.

Ultimately, we've got a reactive coaching staff - and not one that necessarily makes adjustments, but one who feels like they have to see what the other team is going to force on us and then see how we can operate within the parameters they've allowed the opposition to set. That's a losing mentality. Proactive coaches come in with plans 1-3 on who they're going to impose their strengths on the game and then figure out ways to adapt to counteract and fill the holes in that plan that the other team manages to create. A coach with more stones would have seen what Miller was doing to Barksdale and popped either Henry or Chris Watt to that side, and set up a couple run plays wherein even if Barksdale doesn't manage to impose his will on Miller, Miller gets popped by the second blocker - just to give him something else to have to account for in his pre-snap activities and judgments, instead of just seeing "Greenlight GO" like a drag-racer.
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Boltstrikes


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:


Whiz and he have been force-feeding passing the red-zone most of the season trying to get Gates the TD record. It's fairly obvious, particularly when you account for the fact that the most balanced our red-zone offense has been (arguably the whole of our offense has been) was when Gates was out injured. It's a common theme of this team under McCoy that if they can get an individual player an individual accomplishment or accolade, they tend to put more priority on that than actually winning the damn game.



I couldn't agree more. I love Gates. I really do, but his time as a starter or true threat receiving is over. Line him up as a full back and get a few sneak TD's that way if you have to but stop forcing the ball to him in the red zone in a traditional match up.
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