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Ross is a joke
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MDDraftScout


Joined: 22 Mar 2016
Posts: 40
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lemmiwinks wrote:
Again, the argument isn't that he or any of the other picks are more valuable than other players but rather that it's the player the team wanted


Exactly. Some people can't comprehend this concept. 100% of these players have weaknesses in their games. Its up to the coaching staff and FO to pick guys that fit their scheme and minimize their weaknesses while maximizing their strengths. Howard fits what we need. Russell is not a lengthy, physical, press boundary corner that the FO wanted. Davis is an in the box S/CB tweener whos main strength is supporting in the run game with his tackling ability. Fuller, who I personally like, is more of a speedy cover corner who can be sticky in coverage but isn't very physical at the line. And if you want to get even more nitpicky all of these guys have been beat by the deep ball often in their careers. Hell, even Josh Norman and Richard Sherman has gotten toasted a few times a year in their careers. Remember that Monday night game a few years ago where Ted Ginn made Darrelle Revis look like a gradeschool DB?
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cddolphin


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting value picks is nice.. but if (for example) Howard develops into an above-average starting corner, will the Dolphins truly regret flipping that extra 4th rounder for him? Mike Pouncey wasn't a "value" pick.. nor was Ju'Wuan James.. but I'd say most fans are glad those players were selected by Miami, even if they were both 'overdrafted' by a half round or so.

Getting quality starters should be priority 1. Getting them for value is secondary IMO.

As far as the 2016 draft class, like every year I will wait to reserve judgement as I'm not big on college ball.
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Pierrot35


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
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Location: Daveluyville, Québec, Canada
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUG wrote:
Pierrot .... all due respect ... You failed to mention that our 1st rnd pk yields 3 starters at 3 positions of need. - OLB - CB & OT.
That clearly minimizes the "reach factor" you pointed out.

sug


Sug with all due respect also if you read my opening statement I clearly state I was impressed with the Tunsil move. I was regaining hope which clearly shows how hopeless of a fan I am.

However look at the injury history of Alonso, and the highly uneven play of Maxwell, and I cannot see this as depth for the time being....desperation is more like it once again. I am however praying they both pan out or else we are in deep $%^&**9!

As for everybody else eating the Ross and Tannenbaum cheese you are in for a rude awakening. Some fans totally underestimate the compete level in the NFL on the field, and more importantly amongst GM and organization as a whole. Sorry but Tannenbaum is the clown that Ross handpicked and we have no chance.

PS For all the Howard lovers please go and read the clippings of the corners we picked since Vontae Davis and let me know how it panned out! This is history repeating itself regardless of the crap we are being fed.
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Lemmiwinks


Joined: 26 Jul 2011
Posts: 238
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"We will never rise again with Ross as the owner. Thank god he is 87 years old so we should not suffer through much more than another 20-25 years of hell. Time passes so fast when you stink every year!"

Let's face it. If our draft was:
1. Tunsil
2. Jack
3. Hargreaves
4. Elliot
5. Ramsey
6. Lawson
7. Kelly
7. Bosa

Would You still find a way to complain? It's more fun to complain about the owner and tell the rest of us with a different opinion (or even the same opinion but reserving jumping off the bridge until the draft picks have a chance to even play) that we are drinking the koolaid.

I respect your opinion which you have the right to have but I think you are overreacting. While I certainly don't agree with all of the moves made, I am happy that we got players we wanted. Here is hoping for things to work out the way the team plans
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dolphinologist


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
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Location: New York
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lemmiwinks wrote:
"We will never rise again with Ross as the owner. Thank god he is 87 years old so we should not suffer through much more than another 20-25 years of hell. Time passes so fast when you stink every year!"

Let's face it. If our draft was:
1. Tunsil
2. Jack
3. Hargreaves
4. Elliot
5. Ramsey
6. Lawson
7. Kelly
7. Bosa

Would You still find a way to complain? It's more fun to complain about the owner and tell the rest of us with a different opinion (or even the same opinion but reserving jumping off the bridge until the draft picks have a chance to even play) that we are drinking the koolaid.

I respect your opinion which you have the right to have but I think you are overreacting. While I certainly don't agree with all of the moves made, I am happy that we got players we wanted. Here is hoping for things to work out the way the team plans


Some of us really studied this stuff for a long time and we see major holes in Drakes game. Ball security and upright running just to name a few. There were better backs on the board when he got selected who really fit this offense.
Howard is a project who needs intense coaching. But he's gonna take his lumps on Sundays while we are trying to win games. You don't take projects in round 2. He is not an instant starter when it comes to his development. But he'll get OJT at the expense of the defense.

Just because YOU may not know these players from a hole in the wall, don't insult the rest of us who have been watching these guys.
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Pierrot35


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lemmiwinks wrote:
"We will never rise again with Ross as the owner. Thank god he is 87 years old so we should not suffer through much more than another 20-25 years of hell. Time passes so fast when you stink every year!"

Let's face it. If our draft was:
1. Tunsil
2. Jack
3. Hargreaves
4. Elliot
5. Ramsey
6. Lawson
7. Kelly
7. Bosa

Would You still find a way to complain? It's more fun to complain about the owner and tell the rest of us with a different opinion (or even the same opinion but reserving jumping off the bridge until the draft picks have a chance to even play) that we are drinking the koolaid.

I respect your opinion which you have the right to have but I think you are overreacting. While I certainly don't agree with all of the moves made, I am happy that we got players we wanted. Here is hoping for things to work out the way the team plans


Overreacting to 25 years of mediocrity? You really have to explain to me how this is remotely possible.

Take a good look at the work a real GM like Ozzie Newsome did this weekend. Then compare that with the way we reached and wasted picks ,except for Tunsil who fell into our lap, and tell me how we stand a chance in hell.

I hate the way this team is run since Ross is here and this latest draft is no different. I respect your opinion too, but I have been at this for 45 years and I would like to believe that emotion has nothing to do with my assessment of horrible management.

Believe me I hate losing and this is killing me. I wish I could be positive, but I just don't see it especially when I compare with perennial power houses and the way they do things on draft day.
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hrubes20


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphinologist wrote:

Some of us really studied this stuff for a long time and we see major holes in Drakes game. Ball security and upright running just to name a few. There were better backs on the board when he got selected who really fit this offense.
Howard is a project who needs intense coaching. But he's gonna take his lumps on Sundays while we are trying to win games. You don't take projects in round 2. He is not an instant starter when it comes to his development. But he'll get OJT at the expense of the defense.

Just because YOU may not know these players from a hole in the wall, don't insult the rest of us who have been watching these guys.


You need to watch more 2015 tape of Drake if you think he still has the terrible ball security. One fumble in over 100 offensive touches this year, and add on however many touches he had on special teams. He knew he had an issue in that area early in his career, and worked hard to correct it. He was almost identical to Devontae Booker this past year, who I know many were clamoring for.

Drake's upright running style would be much more of a problem if he was going to be asked to be "the guy". He's not. He won't be seeing 20 carries in any games. He could be a 5 reception, 7-8 carry type of player in this offense and the perfect complement to Ajayi who will carry the load on the ground. This pick was more about the FO believing in Ajayi than anything else.
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Lemmiwinks


Joined: 26 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphinologist wrote:
Lemmiwinks wrote:
"We will never rise again with Ross as the owner. Thank god he is 87 years old so we should not suffer through much more than another 20-25 years of hell. Time passes so fast when you stink every year!"

Let's face it. If our draft was:
1. Tunsil
2. Jack
3. Hargreaves
4. Elliot
5. Ramsey
6. Lawson
7. Kelly
7. Bosa

Would You still find a way to complain? It's more fun to complain about the owner and tell the rest of us with a different opinion (or even the same opinion but reserving jumping off the bridge until the draft picks have a chance to even play) that we are drinking the koolaid.

I respect your opinion which you have the right to have but I think you are overreacting. While I certainly don't agree with all of the moves made, I am happy that we got players we wanted. Here is hoping for things to work out the way the team plans


Some of us really studied this stuff for a long time and we see major holes in Drakes game. Ball security and upright running just to name a few. There were better backs on the board when he got selected who really fit this offense.
Howard is a project who needs intense coaching. But he's gonna take his lumps on Sundays while we are trying to win games. You don't take projects in round 2. He is not an instant starter when it comes to his development. But he'll get OJT at the expense of the defense.

Just because YOU may not know these players from a hole in the wall, don't insult the rest of us who have been watching these guys.


Lot's here to respond to. I think I will start bottom up. It's insulting that I don't agree with you? Grow up. You have been watching guys. Nobody in this or any other organization gives a crap about how many Youtube highlight videos you have been watching. Does that make you an expert? Have you played the game? Have you coached the game? Watching and scouting are not equal. Maybe Booker is the guy and maybe Drake is a bum, I am not arguing one way or the other. My point from the start has simply been that I would rather our staff get the guys they want and that's what they did. I disagreed with a lot of this draft. I didn't like trading up in the 2nd and I don't particularly care for Howard. I liked Dixon more than Drake and I liked Booker more than Drake too. I like Carroo but thought we gave up way too much to move up. I'm not about to pretend I know more about scouting, coaching, player development just because I've played at a college level, coached at a high school level and analyze data for a living. I'll say it for probably the fifth time on this subject alone. You have the right to your opinion and I am not even necessarily disagreeing with it. I believe there are some of you that are throwing tantrums because they didn't take the guy YOU wanted. In a few years you may be right or you may be wrong. We have a brand new head coach. He has the guys he wants. Now it is up to him to win with his guys in his system. That is all
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Deadeye


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MDDraftScout wrote:
Exactly. Some people can't comprehend this concept.
Oh brilliant. Insult the intelligence of anyone who disagrees with the drivel your dispensing.

Here is a simple rule that teams that win super bowls follow: you don't WASTE draft picks. We wasted a pair of 4th rounders to get the players we drafted. You (and others) say, "Wait to see how they turn out". But saying that proves that you don't understand the point at all. We wasted extra picks to get them. That's the complaint, and that is precisely what year-in and year-out playoff contenders do not do.

Personally, I hope as as a fan we drafted 3 or 4 HOF players. But something tells me we'll be lucky to get two starters other than Tunsil out of all this.

We drafted tons of skill players when our top needs were the o-line and defensive front 7. WR was not a need, and we drafted 3 of them. This was supposed to be a deep draft on the d-line, and we didn't get anyone. Now we're lining up with a 31 year old DE and a 34 year old DE coming off achilles surgery. Genius, pure genius.

The Dolphins are being run by buffoons. I just hope Gase can work some magic with the offense.
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Lemmiwinks


Joined: 26 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadeye wrote:
MDDraftScout wrote:
Exactly. Some people can't comprehend this concept.
Oh brilliant. Insult the intelligence of anyone who disagrees with the drivel your dispensing.

Here is a simple rule that teams that win super bowls follow: you don't WASTE draft picks. We wasted a pair of 4th rounders to get the players we drafted. You (and others) say, "Wait to see how they turn out". But saying that proves that you don't understand the point at all. We wasted extra picks to get them. That's the complaint, and that is precisely what year-in and year-out playoff contenders do not do.

Personally, I hope as as a fan we drafted 3 or 4 HOF players. But something tells me we'll be lucky to get two starters other than Tunsil out of all this.

We drafted tons of skill players when our top needs were the o-line and defensive front 7. WR was not a need, and we drafted 3 of them. This was supposed to be a deep draft on the d-line, and we didn't get anyone. Now we're lining up with a 31 year old DE and a 34 year old DE coming off achilles surgery. Genius, pure genius.

The Dolphins are being run by buffoons. I just hope Gase can work some magic with the offense.


What team wins our division each year? Do Dominique Easley, Ron Brace, Ras I Dowling, Jermain Cunningham, Chad Jackson (I can go all night) ring a bell? Look, obviously wasting draft picks isn't good business. And if you see it as wasting draft picks then I agree with you for being upset. They got Tunsil because he fell. They traded up for Howard because he was the last corner that fit what they wanted left. (Davis is more of a strong safety and Alexander is best suited for the nickle). Yes, I agree we gave up too much to move up to get him. I'm OK with it because we at least took someone we are comfortable with. The Carroo trade was a kings ransom by comparison but maybe we ranked him really high. Maybe he was a top 5 receiver on our board that we just couldn't pass up. Drake was exactly the guy they wanted if they couldn't get Elliot. Next year has 3 absolute stud running backs coming out. If we are content with what we have then we will use resources then. I don't recall a draft ever having fans so divided before. For those really against it, what is it about the draft that bothers you the most? The giving up future picks, giving up picks in the current draft or picking the "wrong guy"? Here is how I look at it.
1. Tunsil (top ranked tackle and my top ranked player overall) Love the pick
2. Howard (5th ranked cornerback and my 2nd ranked corner available) didn't care for the pick, was hoping we'd trade up for Jack
3. Drake (6 ranked runningback and my 4th ranked available) didn't like the pick, wanted Dixon
3. Carroo (4th ranked receiver and my top available) was very suprised by the trade and left scratching my head but I like they player
6. Grant (didn't rank him) I'm thinking kick returner and pass catching running back. Don't feel comfortable judging him due to lack of knowledge
6. Lucas (don't know much about) Will be given a chance to be a press corner. I imagine will compete with the likes of Howard and Lippett. Supposedly a real leader
7. Doughty (don't know him much other than playing in a small school, being local and being accurate) Don't have a huge problem here except I really wanted Scooby Wright
7. Duarte (7th ranked Tight end and best available) He has a really low floor/high ceiling. Any earlier than the 7th would've struck some problems with risk/reward ratio but this is the perfect spot. I imagine the practice squad is where he ends up but who knows.

Overall, personally I like components of the draft and have real issues with parts. I am hopeful that we took who is going to help us win the most and Gase and his staff get the most out of everyone
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MDDraftScout


Joined: 22 Mar 2016
Posts: 40
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadeye wrote:
MDDraftScout wrote:
Exactly. Some people can't comprehend this concept.
Oh brilliant. Insult the intelligence of anyone who disagrees with the drivel your dispensing.

Here is a simple rule that teams that win super bowls follow: you don't WASTE draft picks. We wasted a pair of 4th rounders to get the players we drafted. You (and others) say, "Wait to see how they turn out". But saying that proves that you don't understand the point at all. We wasted extra picks to get them. That's the complaint, and that is precisely what year-in and year-out playoff contenders do not do.

Personally, I hope as as a fan we drafted 3 or 4 HOF players. But something tells me we'll be lucky to get two starters other than Tunsil out of all this.

We drafted tons of skill players when our top needs were the o-line and defensive front 7. WR was not a need, and we drafted 3 of them. This was supposed to be a deep draft on the d-line, and we didn't get anyone. Now we're lining up with a 31 year old DE and a 34 year old DE coming off achilles surgery. Genius, pure genius.

The Dolphins are being run by buffoons. I just hope Gase can work some magic with the offense.


I'm not insulting anyone. I'm not calling anyone names. I'm not saying anyone is stupid. All I'm saying is that the concept is very hard for alot of people to wrap their heads around. Trust me, it all gets a little clearer when the concept is applied. People naturally get upset at things they don't understand. None of us will understand the exact plan of the FO because we are not in the draft rooms and staff meetings discussing philosophies and gameplans. But they have released some hints about the concepts they want to instill in the team culture and the style of offenses and defenses they want to run. If you look at the picks with those views in mind you should be able to see the motive for using picks to trade up and secure the selections of these players instead of settling and risking the loss of these players.

And also, I highly doubt that any rookie DE we might have taken in this draft would've started over those 31 and 34 year DEs you referred to named Cameron Wake and Mario Williams. Its not like they're the only DE's on the roster. They have good, young depth behind them.
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hrubes20


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cddolphin wrote:
Getting value picks is nice.. but if (for example) Howard develops into an above-average starting corner, will the Dolphins truly regret flipping that extra 4th rounder for him? Mike Pouncey wasn't a "value" pick.. nor was Ju'Wuan James.. but I'd say most fans are glad those players were selected by Miami, even if they were both 'overdrafted' by a half round or so.

Getting quality starters should be priority 1. Getting them for value is secondary IMO.

As far as the 2016 draft class, like every year I will wait to reserve judgement as I'm not big on college ball.


I'm just happy that it appears the organization is looking further than what is directly in front of their faces for once. They took the guys they specifically wanted, regardless of whether or not it was a glaring need for 2015. We just have to hope that their analysis of the specific players was accurate.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its about goddamn time the Dolphins put together enough talent along the offensive line to have a chance at being competitive. Tunsil's bad luck is our good fortune. I doubt seriously the Dolphins would have ever considered going o-line in the first couple of rounds if a major talent hadn't fallen to us. Tunsil can play left guard this year, and then slide to Tackle next if Albert is on his way out. Tunsil is the immediate guard and the Tackle of the future.

Beyond that, the players we took are fine. I just think we stupidly gave up too much for them, and there certainly seems like a good chance one or more of them would have been available had we shown patience. My guess is that the Dolphins plan this offseason was to try and accumulate compensatory picks next year, and since compensatory picks can be traded next year for the first time, and we expect to have a fair share of them with all the talent they let walk this off season, that they could burn through some of that capital now.

With that said, and to the original posts point, I agree, its going to be a helluva lot harder to find success with Ross as the owner. He is a first class buffoon with confidence. Nothing more dangerous than a fool with confidence. And I also agree, his mistakes on the org chart are enormous. His evaluation of those working for him, is gawd awful. Somehow, he is always the last to figure out the root of a problem. Throw in the fact that personally he is a tool, and the franchise is nearly doomed to mediocrity or worse.
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ovaw8lover


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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I purposely did not follow the crop of draftees this year but I will always say draft a QB every 3 years if you have one or not and interior lineman every year. Outside of Tunsil I do not know anything about the players the Fins drafted. Having said that, I am never in favor of trading next years picks to move up a couple slots in the draft if it isnt for a difference maker. Myles Jack is a difference maker but I havent followed the Fins as close for the same reason many of you are upset by the draft. I dont even have Sunday Tix anymore.

I am embracing my new role as casual fan now... Laughing
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Assumed_name


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphinologist wrote:
I agree with this post.
Even if we stayed exactly where we were and not traded, there were better players at those same positions that were available.
Aside from rare circumstances, trading up is for playoff teams, trading down is for everyone else.

Keivaree Russell and Sean Davis > Xavier Howard
Devontae Booker > Kenyan Drake

We could have selected Shalique Calhoun or Miles Jack.
We could have selected Javon Hargraves to replace the under achieving Earl Mitchell.
I can't even give the Dolphins credit for Tunsil because they he fell in their lap.


In all due respect, those name were apparently above Howard and Drake on YOUR board. No one knows where they ranked on Miami's board. And keep in mind, rankings on Miami's board include, for example, the VJ prototype for CB, fit to Gase's scheme, alpha personalities, that aren't considered on the generic BPA rankings chart.
Not saying I disagree with you - I didn't like all picks, but "could have" implies you, or a board you follow, consider them better players. Maybe, maybe not.
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