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oakdb36
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 17060
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 Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| Silver&Black88 wrote: | | raiderrocker18 wrote: | | i went back and watched a lot of his draftbreakdown videos... his edge rushing is extremely lackluster. i think he's a 5-tech DE or a UT |
Thats what JDR and Reggie said he'd be doing |
Could he be anything else? He's obviously not a NT or a Leo. Anyway, i'm not sure he's an upgrade over Autry at DE. If he can develop at 3T, fine.
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SBXISBXVSBXVIII
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 3813
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| 91jmay wrote: | | Honestly I am not seeing the supposed upside. He is a pretty average athlete and his tape is poor. More than willing to back Reggie and hope I am wrong, just don't see it with this one. |
Are you serious? A pretty average athlete? He wouldn't have been drafted in the 2nd round if this was remotely true. C'mon man. |
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Rich7sena
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 6859
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| SBXISBXVSBXVIII wrote: | | 91jmay wrote: | | Honestly I am not seeing the supposed upside. He is a pretty average athlete and his tape is poor. More than willing to back Reggie and hope I am wrong, just don't see it with this one. |
Are you serious? A pretty average athlete? He wouldn't have been drafted in the 2nd round if this was remotely true. C'mon man. |
His athletic testing does suggest he's a below average athlete at the defensive line position, according to 3sigmathlete.com (some NFL teams use SPARQ in their evaluations). Even in watching him play, it's clear that his best athletic traits stem from his frame, fluidity, and hustle.
He's not a "freak" or close to it. It doesn't mean he can't be a good football player--because he has a lot of desirable traits, specifically for an interior defensive lineman--but he's not objectively a "good" athlete relative to his peers. |
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TiberiusRising
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 13266
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Rich7sena wrote: | | SBXISBXVSBXVIII wrote: | | 91jmay wrote: | | Honestly I am not seeing the supposed upside. He is a pretty average athlete and his tape is poor. More than willing to back Reggie and hope I am wrong, just don't see it with this one. |
Are you serious? A pretty average athlete? He wouldn't have been drafted in the 2nd round if this was remotely true. C'mon man. |
His athletic testing does suggest he's a below average athlete at the defensive line position, according to 3sigmathlete.com (some NFL teams use SPARQ in their evaluations). Even in watching him play, it's clear that his best athletic traits stem from his frame, fluidity, and hustle.
He's not a "freak" or close to it. It doesn't mean he can't be a good football player--because he has a lot of desirable traits, specifically for an interior defensive lineman--but he's not objectively a "good" athlete relative to his peers. |
Athletically he seems to be right on par with Chris Jones. And that is with an injured knee. Also look at his 3 cone's which Reggie/scouts seem to be placing a lot of value in with our picks. |
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Rich7sena
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 6859
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| TiberiusRising wrote: | | Rich7sena wrote: | | SBXISBXVSBXVIII wrote: | | 91jmay wrote: | | Honestly I am not seeing the supposed upside. He is a pretty average athlete and his tape is poor. More than willing to back Reggie and hope I am wrong, just don't see it with this one. |
Are you serious? A pretty average athlete? He wouldn't have been drafted in the 2nd round if this was remotely true. C'mon man. |
His athletic testing does suggest he's a below average athlete at the defensive line position, according to 3sigmathlete.com (some NFL teams use SPARQ in their evaluations). Even in watching him play, it's clear that his best athletic traits stem from his frame, fluidity, and hustle.
He's not a "freak" or close to it. It doesn't mean he can't be a good football player--because he has a lot of desirable traits, specifically for an interior defensive lineman--but he's not objectively a "good" athlete relative to his peers. |
Athletically he seems to be right on par with Chris Jones. And that is with an injured knee. Also look at his 3 cone's which Reggie/scouts seem to be placing a lot of value in with our picks. |
His fluidity/change of direction is one his best athletic traits, which bore our in his 3-cone. His 10-yard and vertical are probably the most concerning when trying to calculate projected burst. Ward doesn't stick out when he's attacking gaps like Chris Jones did.
I remain positive on Ward's prospectus, perticularly with the Raiders' coaching staff. It's also reassuring to know other teams were seriously considering Ward in the vicinity of the second round. |
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TiberiusRising
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 13266
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Rich7sena wrote: | | TiberiusRising wrote: | | Rich7sena wrote: | | SBXISBXVSBXVIII wrote: | | 91jmay wrote: | | Honestly I am not seeing the supposed upside. He is a pretty average athlete and his tape is poor. More than willing to back Reggie and hope I am wrong, just don't see it with this one. |
Are you serious? A pretty average athlete? He wouldn't have been drafted in the 2nd round if this was remotely true. C'mon man. |
His athletic testing does suggest he's a below average athlete at the defensive line position, according to 3sigmathlete.com (some NFL teams use SPARQ in their evaluations). Even in watching him play, it's clear that his best athletic traits stem from his frame, fluidity, and hustle.
He's not a "freak" or close to it. It doesn't mean he can't be a good football player--because he has a lot of desirable traits, specifically for an interior defensive lineman--but he's not objectively a "good" athlete relative to his peers. |
Athletically he seems to be right on par with Chris Jones. And that is with an injured knee. Also look at his 3 cone's which Reggie/scouts seem to be placing a lot of value in with our picks. |
His fluidity/change of direction is one his best athletic traits, which bore our in his 3-cone. His 10-yard and vertical are probably the most concerning when trying to calculate projected burst. Ward doesn't stick out when he's attacking gaps like Chris Jones did.
I remain positive on Ward's prospectus, perticularly with the Raiders' coaching staff. It's also reassuring to know other teams were seriously considering Ward in the vicinity of the second round. |
I can see that. Curious what he looks like when healthy.
As far as rounds go I think NFLN was the lowest score with rd. 2-3. Most had him gone by mid 2nd though from what I am seeing around the interwebs.
For 10yard and vert between pro day and combine. Seems like one was higher than other in each so I will just list best numbers for both. As you can see very similar numbers, each win in certain categorys but both very close. Now Jones is an inch taller and 10lbs heavier so a little more impressive for him but I think Ward has pretty good athletic traits compared to some of the other DL.
Jones 10 yard- 1.7
Ward 10 yard- 1.76
Jones Vert- 29.5
Ward Vert- 28
Jones Broad-8'10"
Ward Broad-9'03"
Jones Shuttle-4.62
Ward Shuttle-4.63
Jones 3 Cone-7.44
Ward 3 Cone-7.38 |
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91jmay
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 29949
Location: Wonderland
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| SBXISBXVSBXVIII wrote: | | 91jmay wrote: | | Honestly I am not seeing the supposed upside. He is a pretty average athlete and his tape is poor. More than willing to back Reggie and hope I am wrong, just don't see it with this one. |
Are you serious? A pretty average athlete? He wouldn't have been drafted in the 2nd round if this was remotely true. C'mon man. |
Ok My Disingenuous. I wasn't comparing to Tommy the Couch Potato. I was talking about in relation to raw NFL D-Line prospects.
He has average athletic traits when you consider his production/film wasn't great at all. If you are drafting a kid who didn't perform that much in college (which is fine, plenty of good NFL players didn't) to me he has to be an above average to freak level athlete. Don't know that Ward is. Hope he proves me wrong though, and he could well do.
Calhoun though flashes both on tape and has really stellar athletic numbers which matter for a pass rusher. I think we might have found a really good player in the 3rd with him. Sure you can question the need, but give me 4 pass rushers over 3 pass rushers all day every day. |
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raidr4life
Joined: 10 Jan 2010
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Location: Fresno, California
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Rich7sena
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 6859
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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This we knew. He could also potentially play LDE if attrition hits. Ward could start earlier than anticipated if the staff feels he's as sound in the run game as Ellis. While he's not as good creating push, he's better at hitting gaps and making plays from the backside. |
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agarcia34
Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 6480
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Can't wait till Jethro Franklin gets his hands on Ward. I believe he can get the most out of Ward hes very raw but there is a lot to work with.
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Mr Raider
Joined: 25 Jun 2014
Posts: 1869
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Silver&Black88 wrote: | | Mr Raider wrote: | | MMAJunkie wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | | Edwards is tough to figure out. He started out as a 3T then moved over to RE with Mack standing up. I don't quite know where our staff likes him, probably because he's versatile and with our lack of depth last year he was all over. |
Yeah it will be interesting to how everything shakes out with our front seven. Do you think this would work?
LE - Khalil Mack
3T - Mario Edwards
NT - Dan Williams
RE - Bruce Irvin/Calhoun
With Smith or Irvin at SLB? |
Think once Aldon is back they would prefer him at RDE, possibly evening setting the edge in a 2 point stance, but Irvin at SLB. Though until Aldon gets back we will likely see Irvin at DE and Calhoun rotating or standing up at SLB.
Got a lot of different things we can do. We can really mix and match just about any way we want. |
That's an elephant in the room that no one has addressed: Aldon. He pretty clearly is not in our long term plans imo. Next 2 years? You bet. After? Not so much. At that time, we'll need to pay Mack and Carr and whoever else deserved it (the Gabe Jackson types). Plus even now, where is there room to get Irvin, Mack and Smith out there at the same time? Maybe move Irvin to ILB for a few snaps a game or something? I don't see how this is going to work out. Anyone feel free to explain to me. |
IMO Aldon and his poor decisions have cost him any shot at a huge mega deal with a ton of guaranteed money. Similar to Pacman, he will get decent paydays but now he's in a situation where any mistake will cost him a year and then some. Teams aren't going to shell out ridiculous money with high guarantees just because he's stayed on the straight and narrow for two seasons. He will have to accept easy outs and incentives in his deal from now on, at lead through the next deal he signs, and Aldon has genuinely seemed like he values staying in the Bay or staying with us. I think that's something really important to him. He's still young, the biggest thing will be his ability. If he's able to come back, stay out of trouble, and play at a high level we'll keep him around. We have two years to see what level he can get back to on the field and if he can keep his nose clean. We can always structure deals to have big cap hits from some guys in a specific year and then not so much in the next. If Reggie has one thing nobody should question him on its his ability to put together beautiful low risk deals that are still competitive and happily accepted by players and agents. If Aldon plays at the level he's capable of, we will find a way to keep him IMO. He's a true cornerstone defensive piece and like I said I think he will have to accept a certain type of deal regardless of where he looks. The thing thay could change all of this is if we have other guys like Calhoun, Ward, MEJ, etc step up and reach their full potential and we then don't need a high end third piece. Gotta remember Aldon is younger than Irvin. As far as getting them all on the field I think we will see our front seven have one of the deepest rotations in the game. We will keep guys fresh and mix and match all sorts of different looks with numerous players. But Irvin is a fully capable off the ball LB. You can use him in coverage and as an edge setter (at LB). Mack can do just about anything. Calhoun can play multiple spots. So should Ward and MEJ on the edge or on the interior. Bottom line if Aldon plays as well as Aldon is capable of you find a way to get him on the field. It's impossible to say how it will turn out, but I don't think we would have to lose a high level Aldon Smith because of lack of ability to pay him or lack of desire because of the other capable players we have. Let's pray that Mack and Carr and even Cooper (one or two of them) take a huge payday that is still somewhat of a discount of what they could get from someone. Like I don't expect any of them to take pennies on the dollar, but there are guys in sports thay take far less than what they could get from someone for the good of the team the great news for us is that all of those guys strike me as the type that could make a decision like that. They love football and they love the team. Again I doubt all would, but do you think it's impossible to see Carr take a huge payday that still seems like somewhat of a discount? I honestly could.
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daineraider
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 6969
Location: Salt Lake City
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 12:18 am Post subject: |
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This was the pick I was least excited about, mostly because of the other prospects that were on the board. Admittedly I don't know much about Ward and that added to my critisism of the pick. I can see some of the raw talent that is seen in him and I hope the coaching staff is able to get all of it out of him. Knowing that he played WR in high school and had only played Dline for 2 years is at least a plus. He still is raw at the position and should continue to improve. I will always give a guy a chance before being to critical so here's to hoping he makes that leap in the next few years.
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DC4_Life
Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Posts: 514
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| average athlete?? someone post the video of the 300 pounder dunking the ball |
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NightTrainLane
Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3184
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| DC4_Life wrote: | | average athlete?? someone post the video of the 300 pounder dunking the ball |
Did already. They sleep.
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Silver&Black88
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 41597
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| oakdb36 wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | | raiderrocker18 wrote: | | i went back and watched a lot of his draftbreakdown videos... his edge rushing is extremely lackluster. i think he's a 5-tech DE or a UT |
Thats what JDR and Reggie said he'd be doing |
Could he be anything else? He's obviously not a NT or a Leo. Anyway, i'm not sure he's an upgrade over Autry at DE. If he can develop at 3T, fine. |
Not really, just stating what was said at a presser. 
3T or 5T |
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