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1st Round (27th Overall): Kenny Clark [DT; UCLA]
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CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 11933
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

squire12 wrote:
D Jones certainly could be someone that in 2-3 years a good deal of fans will be wishing TT had resigned.

Rookie year ankle injury slows his progress.
2nd year, Peppers is brought in and limits his opportunities. He moves to OLB in the playoff game vs SF
3rd year....i thought he had pretty solid season
4th year...just could not get home, as Central noted above, got close (ala Mike Neal).

Disrupting the rhythm and timing of the offense is certainly underrated. It affects almost all QB's.


I agree. Good post.

My question is, was that "just could not get home" a product of who-he-is, or was it poor luck? His testing numbers are somewhat questionable, and he's not the most instinctive player (or intelligent). So am I misreading him in that he could make a jump with another year? I don't (and won't) know.

He's definitely a tough read.
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packerjmf wrote:
GWH87 wrote:
Somebody take the off season shovel out of Ted's hands & bury him in his own hole.

How can he dig a hole if he's too busy sitting on his hands?
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 13518
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
squire12 wrote:
D Jones certainly could be someone that in 2-3 years a good deal of fans will be wishing TT had resigned.

Rookie year ankle injury slows his progress.
2nd year, Peppers is brought in and limits his opportunities. He moves to OLB in the playoff game vs SF
3rd year....i thought he had pretty solid season
4th year...just could not get home, as Central noted above, got close (ala Mike Neal).

Disrupting the rhythm and timing of the offense is certainly underrated. It affects almost all QB's.


I agree. Good post.

My question is, was that "just could not get home" a product of who-he-is, or was it poor luck? His testing numbers are somewhat questionable, and he's not the most instinctive player (or intelligent). So am I misreading him in that he could make a jump with another year? I don't (and won't) know.

He's definitely a tough read.


Jones is a damn good athlete.

The pass rushing talent isn't quite top of the line, but it's just one step down. If the motor and toughness were even average he'd be a damn good player.

He's a real good pressure package player, but without being mentally tougher, he's not gonna be more. Run defense requires physicality and the want to hit.

Now, maybe he grows up as he matures, but you're betting on the man at that point, and the Packers got to know the man real well in his time here.
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From the day he was born and subsequently starting to grow into his short neck, round face, scruffy beard and pale face, Bulaga was destined to be a Packers O-Linemen for life.
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CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 11933
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
CentralFC wrote:
squire12 wrote:
D Jones certainly could be someone that in 2-3 years a good deal of fans will be wishing TT had resigned.

Rookie year ankle injury slows his progress.
2nd year, Peppers is brought in and limits his opportunities. He moves to OLB in the playoff game vs SF
3rd year....i thought he had pretty solid season
4th year...just could not get home, as Central noted above, got close (ala Mike Neal).

Disrupting the rhythm and timing of the offense is certainly underrated. It affects almost all QB's.


I agree. Good post.

My question is, was that "just could not get home" a product of who-he-is, or was it poor luck? His testing numbers are somewhat questionable, and he's not the most instinctive player (or intelligent). So am I misreading him in that he could make a jump with another year? I don't (and won't) know.

He's definitely a tough read.


Jones is a damn good athlete.

The pass rushing talent isn't quite top of the line, but it's just one step down. If the motor and toughness were even average he'd be a damn good player.

He's a real good pressure package player, but without being mentally tougher, he's not gonna be more. Run defense requires physicality and the want to hit.

Now, maybe he grows up as he matures, but you're betting on the man at that point, and the Packers got to know the man real well in his time here.


I guess I should say, what he was asked to do, his #s weren't outstanding. The tweener thing. Didn't have the quick step for an edge, and he didn't have the explosive strength for a big. Does that limit his ceiling? Part of me thinks GB has a good idea (at least with how we'd use him). Maybe Zimmer has a better role for him.

among DEs:

10 Split (55th percentile)
3-Cone (34th)
Shuttle (75th)
40 (60th)
Arm Length (18th)



Not sure about the outstanding athlete label.
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packerjmf wrote:
GWH87 wrote:
Somebody take the off season shovel out of Ted's hands & bury him in his own hole.

How can he dig a hole if he's too busy sitting on his hands?
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squire12


Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Posts: 6579
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^Central, is that broken down by 3-4 DE and 4-3 DE?

I feel he was never a great fit for GB. Always thought he was more suited as a 4-3 DE.

Maybe the scheme and style of Defense will bring out more of his ability. That would not be the first time a change of teams, change of scheme suits a player better.

Will be interesting to see, since GB will see him 2x a year
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 17912
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

squire12 wrote:
^^^Central, is that broken down by 3-4 DE and 4-3 DE?

I feel he was never a great fit for GB. Always thought he was more suited as a 4-3 DE.

Maybe the scheme and style of Defense will bring out more of his ability. That would not be the first time a change of teams, change of scheme suits a player better.

Will be interesting to see, since GB will see him 2x a year


I tend to think he's an undertackle in a 43 TBH.

Is MIN playing him at 43E?
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squire12


Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Posts: 6579
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NormSizedMidget wrote:
squire12 wrote:
^^^Central, is that broken down by 3-4 DE and 4-3 DE?

I feel he was never a great fit for GB. Always thought he was more suited as a 4-3 DE.

Maybe the scheme and style of Defense will bring out more of his ability. That would not be the first time a change of teams, change of scheme suits a player better.

Will be interesting to see, since GB will see him 2x a year


I tend to think he's an undertackle in a 43 TBH.

Is MIN playing him at 43E?


I think he could fill that role, just not sure about early downs. More 2nd/3rd and long inside rush. I see him more on the outside in a 4-3 vs inside.
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 17912
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

squire12 wrote:
NormSizedMidget wrote:
squire12 wrote:
^^^Central, is that broken down by 3-4 DE and 4-3 DE?

I feel he was never a great fit for GB. Always thought he was more suited as a 4-3 DE.

Maybe the scheme and style of Defense will bring out more of his ability. That would not be the first time a change of teams, change of scheme suits a player better.

Will be interesting to see, since GB will see him 2x a year


I tend to think he's an undertackle in a 43 TBH.

Is MIN playing him at 43E?


I think he could fill that role, just not sure about early downs. More 2nd/3rd and long inside rush. I see him more on the outside in a 4-3 vs inside.


Good point. You don't want him there all the time. Maybe when he was younger and bigger? Maybe that's the way they'll try to move his body. IDK.

I just know I was never as down on him as people here.
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 13518
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
CentralFC wrote:
squire12 wrote:
D Jones certainly could be someone that in 2-3 years a good deal of fans will be wishing TT had resigned.

Rookie year ankle injury slows his progress.
2nd year, Peppers is brought in and limits his opportunities. He moves to OLB in the playoff game vs SF
3rd year....i thought he had pretty solid season
4th year...just could not get home, as Central noted above, got close (ala Mike Neal).

Disrupting the rhythm and timing of the offense is certainly underrated. It affects almost all QB's.


I agree. Good post.

My question is, was that "just could not get home" a product of who-he-is, or was it poor luck? His testing numbers are somewhat questionable, and he's not the most instinctive player (or intelligent). So am I misreading him in that he could make a jump with another year? I don't (and won't) know.

He's definitely a tough read.


Jones is a damn good athlete.

The pass rushing talent isn't quite top of the line, but it's just one step down. If the motor and toughness were even average he'd be a damn good player.

He's a real good pressure package player, but without being mentally tougher, he's not gonna be more. Run defense requires physicality and the want to hit.

Now, maybe he grows up as he matures, but you're betting on the man at that point, and the Packers got to know the man real well in his time here.


I guess I should say, what he was asked to do, his #s weren't outstanding. The tweener thing. Didn't have the quick step for an edge, and he didn't have the explosive strength for a big. Does that limit his ceiling? Part of me thinks GB has a good idea (at least with how we'd use him). Maybe Zimmer has a better role for him.

among DEs:

10 Split (55th percentile)
3-Cone (34th)
Shuttle (75th)
40 (60th)
Arm Length (18th)



Not sure about the outstanding athlete label.


Run him at DT
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BroncoinGermany wrote:
From the day he was born and subsequently starting to grow into his short neck, round face, scruffy beard and pale face, Bulaga was destined to be a Packers O-Linemen for life.
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PackyAttacky


Joined: 12 Mar 2017
Posts: 208
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't Datone lose more weight than the coaches wanted him too and thats what made them change him to OLB?
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CWood21


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PackyAttacky wrote:
Didn't Datone lose more weight than the coaches wanted him too and thats what made them change him to OLB?


One of the problems is that he couldn't keep weight on.
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PackFan4Life wrote:
I have been pooping like a unicorn for two days and it is freaky.

bkobow05 wrote:
So this is what DCR feels like on Saturdays...
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CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 11933
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWood21 wrote:
PackyAttacky wrote:
Didn't Datone lose more weight than the coaches wanted him too and thats what made them change him to OLB?


One of the problems is that he couldn't keep weight on.


Probably didn't want to, either. Never seemed too keen on getting dirty in the trenches. And we didn't draft him to play EDGE. So there was always a disconnect I think.
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packerjmf wrote:
GWH87 wrote:
Somebody take the off season shovel out of Ted's hands & bury him in his own hole.

How can he dig a hole if he's too busy sitting on his hands?
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 13518
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWood21 wrote:
PackyAttacky wrote:
Didn't Datone lose more weight than the coaches wanted him too and thats what made them change him to OLB?


One of the problems is that he couldn't keep weight on.


I will probably go to my grave wondering what percentage of those troubles were "couldn't" vs "didn't try to".
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BroncoinGermany wrote:
From the day he was born and subsequently starting to grow into his short neck, round face, scruffy beard and pale face, Bulaga was destined to be a Packers O-Linemen for life.
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NCPackFan


Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Posts: 4473
Location: Quahog, RI
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
PackyAttacky wrote:
Didn't Datone lose more weight than the coaches wanted him too and thats what made them change him to OLB?


One of the problems is that he couldn't keep weight on.


I will probably go to my grave wondering what percentage of those troubles were "couldn't" vs "didn't try to".


It's an interesting point to discuss, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that he was a 4-3 DE that we forced into playing DE in a 3-4 because "he had the length" or whatever; not to mention the nagging injuries he sustained. The dude is perfect for MN and what they want and will not come back to haunt us. He's just another DL who was part of that horrific experiment on defense during the 2012 and 2013 seasons. The only difference between himself and the other busts like Khyri Thornton and Josh Boyd is that he was a first rounder...
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PackyAttacky


Joined: 12 Mar 2017
Posts: 208
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCPackFan wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
PackyAttacky wrote:
Didn't Datone lose more weight than the coaches wanted him too and thats what made them change him to OLB?


One of the problems is that he couldn't keep weight on.


I will probably go to my grave wondering what percentage of those troubles were "couldn't" vs "didn't try to".


It's an interesting point to discuss, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that he was a 4-3 DE that we forced into playing DE in a 3-4 because "he had the length" or whatever; not to mention the nagging injuries he sustained. The dude is perfect for MN and what they want and will not come back to haunt us. He's just another DL who was part of that horrific experiment on defense during the 2012 and 2013 seasons. The only difference between himself and the other busts like Khyri Thornton and Josh Boyd is that he was a first rounder...


Don't they talk to this guys before they're drafted and explain to them what their plans are? I wonder if they told Josh Jones e would be playing MLB some of the time? It would appear that it was handled poorly on someones part.
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 13518
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCPackFan wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
PackyAttacky wrote:
Didn't Datone lose more weight than the coaches wanted him too and thats what made them change him to OLB?


One of the problems is that he couldn't keep weight on.


I will probably go to my grave wondering what percentage of those troubles were "couldn't" vs "didn't try to".


It's an interesting point to discuss, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that he was a 4-3 DE that we forced into playing DE in a 3-4 because "he had the length" or whatever; not to mention the nagging injuries he sustained. The dude is perfect for MN and what they want and will not come back to haunt us. He's just another DL who was part of that horrific experiment on defense during the 2012 and 2013 seasons. The only difference between himself and the other busts like Khyri Thornton and Josh Boyd is that he was a first rounder...


What the hell are you talking about?

Datone Jones was not a 4-3 DE in college. UCLA runs a base 3-4. It's probably the closest defense in college football to what the Packers run on the front end. Jones played the exact position in college that he would've been playing in the pros.

Jones just couldn't beat out Daniels for the 3-Tech looks in the nickel. That doesn't leave you a lot of room to play around when you're not on the front line on 65ish percent of snaps.

The guy needed to get bigger and stronger to have a chance to get that spot, but he never did. He decided he'd rather be an Edge guy than a DL guy. He lost weight when the coaches wanted him to add weight. He forced himself into that role which is why he's now gone.

He's now in the exact same role with the Vikings that he is with us. He's a pressure package guy.
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BroncoinGermany wrote:
From the day he was born and subsequently starting to grow into his short neck, round face, scruffy beard and pale face, Bulaga was destined to be a Packers O-Linemen for life.
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