You are currently viewing the old forums. We have upgraded to a new NFL Forum.
This old forum is being left as a read-only archive.
Please update your bookmarks to our new forum at forums.footballsfuture.com.


 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Eagles' Draft Needs
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Philadelphia Eagles
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Hockey5djh


Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 20921
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiltman wrote:
I'll try to find video of Howie talking, but here are some of his comments about RBs...

Quote:
Roseman on RBs: When you find a special talent at that position .. thatís a unique weapon. I donít think the position is de-valued


Quote:
Howie said "narrative" that RBs are easy to find late in draft isn't necessarily true. Distinguished b/w a role player and difference-maker.


I agree, and I think it's what some of us who are pro-RB or at least ok with taking a RB have said.

Difference-makers/impact playmakers are what we need. A role player like he talks about might do alright..but since we don't have difference-makers many other places you have to consider using #8 on Elliot if he's BPA. Otherwise it's a bunch of role players going nowhere. Probably Ertz is the closest difference-maker if he continues where he left off last year. But adding a RB like that would help everything.


I listened to it on the radio yesterday so I'll attempt to paraphrase:

Howie said something along the lines of: There's a narrative out there that the running back position is devalued and that you can find Running backs anywhere, 5th, 6th, 7th even undrafted guys that will come in and be able to do a good job. We don't believe that is true. If you look at the top rushers in the league over the last 5 years they have all been high picks. If there is a player out there that can do everything: run, catch out of the back field, and block, that is a very valuable commodity.
_________________

^^Kilty on the sig

ninja wrote:
This is the eagles we are talking about here. This will all blow up in our faces not work.

Source: experience.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kiltman


Moderator
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 17463
Location: Flipadelphia
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hockey5djh wrote:
Kiltman wrote:
I'll try to find video of Howie talking, but here are some of his comments about RBs...

Quote:
Roseman on RBs: When you find a special talent at that position .. thatís a unique weapon. I donít think the position is de-valued


Quote:
Howie said "narrative" that RBs are easy to find late in draft isn't necessarily true. Distinguished b/w a role player and difference-maker.


I agree, and I think it's what some of us who are pro-RB or at least ok with taking a RB have said.

Difference-makers/impact playmakers are what we need. A role player like he talks about might do alright..but since we don't have difference-makers many other places you have to consider using #8 on Elliot if he's BPA. Otherwise it's a bunch of role players going nowhere. Probably Ertz is the closest difference-maker if he continues where he left off last year. But adding a RB like that would help everything.


I listened to it on the radio yesterday so I'll attempt to paraphrase:

Howie said something along the lines of: There's a narrative out there that the running back position is devalued and that you can find Running backs anywhere, 5th, 6th, 7th even undrafted guys that will come in and be able to do a good job. We don't believe that is true. If you look at the top rushers in the league over the last 5 years they have all been high picks. If there is a player out there that can do everything: run, catch out of the back field, and block, that is a very valuable commodity.

Oh ok thanks

I agree with that...could just be a smokescreen, but I agree with the surface value of the statement.
_________________

Eagles Forum Hall of Famer | 2013 Gold Standard Baldy | 2015 Steegles Baldy | The Reigning ENBD Champion
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Phire


Moderator
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 61132
Location: #FSU #2012 Eagles HoF #2012 Gold Standard #YAKtoseIntolerant #TrollyRangers #Danes #CAVALRY #DERWIN
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howie's just manipulating words.

The argument isn't that RBs can be found anywhere in the draft. That's just the way people have paraphrased the actual argument. The actual argument is that more than any other position, at least recently, you can find RBs outside the top picks. It's a matter or relevancy.

And just look at the lack of RBs taken with top picks or in the first round, in general, compared to other positions. The RB position has irrefutably been devalued a few years back and we're all waiting to see if that continues or not.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hockey5djh


Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 20921
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hockey5djh wrote:
Kiltman wrote:
I'll try to find video of Howie talking, but here are some of his comments about RBs...

Quote:
Roseman on RBs: When you find a special talent at that position .. thatís a unique weapon. I donít think the position is de-valued


Quote:
Howie said "narrative" that RBs are easy to find late in draft isn't necessarily true. Distinguished b/w a role player and difference-maker.


I agree, and I think it's what some of us who are pro-RB or at least ok with taking a RB have said.

Difference-makers/impact playmakers are what we need. A role player like he talks about might do alright..but since we don't have difference-makers many other places you have to consider using #8 on Elliot if he's BPA. Otherwise it's a bunch of role players going nowhere. Probably Ertz is the closest difference-maker if he continues where he left off last year. But adding a RB like that would help everything.


I listened to it on the radio yesterday so I'll attempt to paraphrase:

Howie said something along the lines of: There's a narrative out there that the running back position is devalued and that you can find Running backs anywhere, 5th, 6th, 7th even undrafted guys that will come in and be able to do a good job. We don't believe that is true. If you look at the top rushers in the league over the last 5 years they have all been high picks. If there is a player out there that can do everything: run, catch out of the back field, and block, that is a very valuable commodity.


Here's his exact quote TRM posted in the other thread....I think I did a damn good job at paraphrasing

Quote:
ďWe studied this. There is this narrative that you can get running backs in the fifth, sixth, seventh round and in (rookie) free agency,Ē Roseman said. ďWhen you look back at the last 10 years at guys who were in the top 10 in rushing, those guys are high picks. When you find a special talent at that position, that guy who can run the ball, who can pass protect, who can catch the ball out of the backfield, thatís a unique weapon. I donít think the position is de-valued. Talking to Doug (head coach Pederson), we come from the same school of Andy (Reid, former head coach) and what he could do with those kind of guys.

ďWhen you go back and really look at it, it really is hard to get top guys later.Ē

_________________

^^Kilty on the sig

ninja wrote:
This is the eagles we are talking about here. This will all blow up in our faces not work.

Source: experience.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hockey5djh


Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 20921
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
Howie's just manipulating words.

The argument isn't that RBs can be found anywhere in the draft. That's just the way people have paraphrased the actual argument. The actual argument is that more than any other position, at least recently, you can find RBs outside the top picks. It's a matter or relevancy.

And just look at the lack of RBs taken with top picks or in the first round, in general, compared to other positions. The RB position has irrefutably been devalued a few years back and we're all waiting to see if that continues or not.


I agree with this, he didn't say they needed to be a first round pick but a "high pick". High picks could also be second or third rounders ala Shady, Bell, Murray, etc.
_________________

^^Kilty on the sig

ninja wrote:
This is the eagles we are talking about here. This will all blow up in our faces not work.

Source: experience.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rock-Stark


Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 1466
Location: Wentz Wagon
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with Kilty and Wabbit on this. If Elliott is there at 8 and the BPA on our board, he should be the pick. I understand that you can get great production from RB's drafted in the 2nd and 3rd round(McCoy, Bell, Charles, Murray, etc.) but I don't see prospects like that in this draft. Ezekiel Elliott by far is the best RB this year. Isn't the goal to draft the best possible player at each position? If so, then Elliott should be a legitimate option because of how much better he is than the rest of the prospects. Would you pass on Patrick Willis, if you knew you could get David Harris in the second round? If he's the BPA at our pick, I'm not going to pass on him because I think I can get a better RB(There isn't) later in the draft(. My point is that we should be evaluating the player, not his position. What are the issues we see with Elliott's game?

Lastly, passing on him for a crop of RB's next year is silly. There's too many factors that can affect that:

-Fournette is going to be a top 5 pick.(If healthy)
-Cook should go in the top 20(If healthy and stays out of trouble). He's a great talent.
-McCaffrey can return to college or will possibly go in the top 45 picks.
-Chubb suffered a horrific injury. I absolutely loved him as a player but he is an unknown now.

As great as those guys look, we can't count on passing up a great prospect for someone we can possibly get next year. That's not a realistic approach. Plus, the only prospect better than Zeke is Fournette.
_________________

Eagles|Bulls|White Sox|Real Madrid

Carson Wentz <3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Phire


Moderator
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 61132
Location: #FSU #2012 Eagles HoF #2012 Gold Standard #YAKtoseIntolerant #TrollyRangers #Danes #CAVALRY #DERWIN
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rock-Stark wrote:
I understand that you can get great production from RB's drafted in the 2nd and 3rd round(McCoy, Bell, Charles, Murray, etc.) but I don't see prospects like that in this draft.

Do you ever see prospects like this coming though?

If you could do a draft do-over, guys like Shady, Bell, and Charles aren't being taken where they originally were. Nobody said "Yeah that Shady McCoy will be the Eagles' leading franchise RB by the time he's 26, sounds like a solid 2nd round pick."

Shady was a 2nd round pick because nobody saw what he could be. The same is likely happening now. There are draft picks nobody is talking about who will run the league.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rock-Stark


Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 1466
Location: Wentz Wagon
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
Rock-Stark wrote:
I understand that you can get great production from RB's drafted in the 2nd and 3rd round(McCoy, Bell, Charles, Murray, etc.) but I don't see prospects like that in this draft.

Do you ever see prospects like this coming though?

If you could do a draft do-over, guys like Shady, Bell, and Charles aren't being taken where they originally were. Nobody said "Yeah that Shady McCoy will be the Eagles' leading franchise RB by the time he's 26, sounds like a solid 2nd round pick."

Shady was a 2nd round pick because nobody saw what he could be. The same is likely happening now. There are draft picks nobody is talking about who will run the league.


Valid point. Henry or Booker in the 3rd is better value than Elliott at 8, but I don't see either of those guys or any other RB in this draft being better than Elliott. He's one of those rare prospects who doesn't have any major flaws in his game. When you're watching his game film, he checks every box. Kid can do it all. Again, I'm not saying he should be the pick at 8 even if better prospects are available, I'm arguing that if he's the best player available at 8, he should be the pick regardless of the position he plays.
_________________

Eagles|Bulls|White Sox|Real Madrid

Carson Wentz <3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Philadelphia Eagles All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group