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Patrick Mahomes II, QB, Texas Tech
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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Posts: 3900
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean, are we not seeing the exact same thing that happened with Paxton Lynch last season? Tall, elite tools, questionable footwork and system, questionable reads, enters season as day 3 pick, vaults to high R1 pick around combine time, falls to low R1 pick on draft day, should have been a high R3 pick.

Its the exact, absolutely exact, same scenario playing out again.
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DalCowboyzRule


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 23395
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
I mean, are we not seeing the exact same thing that happened with Paxton Lynch last season? Tall, elite tools, questionable footwork and system, questionable reads, enters season as day 3 pick, vaults to high R1 pick around combine time, falls to low R1 pick on draft day, should have been a high R3 pick.

Its the exact, absolutely exact, same scenario playing out again.


Except Mahomes never was a day 3 pick. I called him a 1st rounder in December 2015 and that wasn't just because I went to Tech.

As far as should be a high R3 pick, I guess we'll see. And that's for both Lynch and Pat.
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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Posts: 3900
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Except Mahomes never was a day 3 pick.


Except he was. He wasn't that hyped going into this year and was seen as a gimmicky air-raid QB who was a late round flyer.

Quote:
I called him a 1st rounder in December 2015 and that wasn't just because I went to Tech.


My post wasn't referencing you it was referencing general consensus.
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DalCowboyzRule


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 23395
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Quote:
Except Mahomes never was a day 3 pick.


Except he was. He wasn't that hyped going into this year and was seen as a gimmicky air-raid QB who was a late round flyer.


Only by people who had never watched him. Anyone who watched Pat in 2015 and Pat in 2016 basically saw the same QB. So he went from day 3 to a likely R1 pick over what?

In fact I would argue he somewhat regressed in 2016 (possibly because of DeAndre Washington, Jakeem Grant and Le'Raven Clark all going to the NFL).

He's always been this guy who had high 1st round potential due to physicals alone. This isn't a Paxton Lynch situation.
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Chiefer


Joined: 20 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So first game I watch of Mahomes is vs LSU 2015. Liking it so far. More analysis when I watch a couple 2016 games(anyone got a game that's positive and negative each for Mahomes?)
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indigo_rex


Joined: 03 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chiefer wrote:
So first game I watch of Mahomes is vs LSU 2015. Liking it so far. More analysis when I watch a couple 2016 games(anyone got a game that's positive and negative each for Mahomes?)


His West Virginia game is pretty ugly. Don't think it's posted, but Iowa St. was also a rough one.
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DalCowboyzRule


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

indigo_rex wrote:
Chiefer wrote:
So first game I watch of Mahomes is vs LSU 2015. Liking it so far. More analysis when I watch a couple 2016 games(anyone got a game that's positive and negative each for Mahomes?)


His West Virginia game is pretty ugly. Don't think it's posted, but Iowa St. was also a rough one.


2016 West Virginia game is the worst game I've seen him play, but I will say that he was dinged in that game with a serious shoulder injury that he ended up playing most of his junior year with (happened in week 5 vs Kansas).

In fact, it later came out he didn't even practice all week leading up to the WVU game. I would definitely look at it, but keep those 2 things in mind.

As far as a positive game, watch the 2016 Baylor game, or 2016 Oklahoma game. He was unreal in both.
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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Only by people who had never watched him. Anyone who watched Pat in 2015 and Pat in 2016 basically saw the same QB. So he went from day 3 to a likely R1 pick over what?


Again, the consensus was that he was a product of the air raid system and for that reason he garnered little attention. I am saying that for the aforementioned reason, he was overlooked.

I thought Paxton was overlooked as well after a decent Sophomore campaign.

Quote:
He's always been this guy who had high 1st round potential due to physicals alone. This isn't a Paxton Lynch situation.


What? No one ever considered him a high R1 pick based on his measurable. Your literally making stuff up. It is exactly a Paxton Lynch situation.

And I think Pat is the top QB prospect in this draft, just don't think he is more than a middle day 2 'sit and learn' type prospect.

I don't want to argue semantics with you because your opinions on him have zero malleability. Your mind is made up and it wont be adjusted in any slight way. That's fine.
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Chiefer


Joined: 20 Nov 2009
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Location: Somewhere in an Arizona Desert...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DalCowboyzRule wrote:
indigo_rex wrote:
Chiefer wrote:
So first game I watch of Mahomes is vs LSU 2015. Liking it so far. More analysis when I watch a couple 2016 games(anyone got a game that's positive and negative each for Mahomes?)


His West Virginia game is pretty ugly. Don't think it's posted, but Iowa St. was also a rough one.


2016 West Virginia game is the worst game I've seen him play, but I will say that he was dinged in that game with a serious shoulder injury that he ended up playing most of his junior year with (happened in week 5 vs Kansas).

In fact, it later came out he didn't even practice all week leading up to the WVU game. I would definitely look at it, but keep those 2 things in mind.

As far as a positive game, watch the 2016 Baylor game, or 2016 Oklahoma game. He was unreal in both.
does he usually get injured?
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Rich7sena


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
I mean, are we not seeing the exact same thing that happened with Paxton Lynch last season? Tall, elite tools, questionable footwork and system, questionable reads, enters season as day 3 pick, vaults to high R1 pick around combine time, falls to low R1 pick on draft day, should have been a high R3 pick.

Its the exact, absolutely exact, same scenario playing out again.

I'd say they both feel different from each other aside from passing similarities.

Lynch accumulated buzz throughout the season and had solidified late 1st, early 2nd hype by the time the college season ended.

Mahomes' 2016 season was par for the course for him production wise and he didn't really change or "burst" onto the scene like Lynch did. I think the hype with Mahomes is linked to how no one is able to pull away from the pack among the top QB prospects.

Also physically, I wouldn't consider Mahomes "tall" like Lynch. In fact, I'm pretty sure Mahomes is shorter than both Watson and Kizer. I expect him to come in under 6'3".
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DalCowboyzRule


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 23395
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chiefer wrote:
DalCowboyzRule wrote:
indigo_rex wrote:
Chiefer wrote:
So first game I watch of Mahomes is vs LSU 2015. Liking it so far. More analysis when I watch a couple 2016 games(anyone got a game that's positive and negative each for Mahomes?)


His West Virginia game is pretty ugly. Don't think it's posted, but Iowa St. was also a rough one.


2016 West Virginia game is the worst game I've seen him play, but I will say that he was dinged in that game with a serious shoulder injury that he ended up playing most of his junior year with (happened in week 5 vs Kansas).

In fact, it later came out he didn't even practice all week leading up to the WVU game. I would definitely look at it, but keep those 2 things in mind.

As far as a positive game, watch the 2016 Baylor game, or 2016 Oklahoma game. He was unreal in both.
does he usually get injured?


2014 - got knocked out in his first start vs Texas with a concussion, came back and started the last 3 games of the season after

2015 - got hurt (leg injury) in week 3 vs TCU, started every game that year

2016 - got hurt (shoulder) after getting tackled against Kansas, started every game that year

Long story short, yes and no.

He's had some kind of injury almost the whole time he was at Tech, but he never missed a start and the games he didn't finish were his 1st career start vs Texas in 2014 due to that concussion, and his 2016 game against Kansas with the shoulder.

In that regard, think Ben Roethlisberger. Always something there, but you know he's taking the field come gameday.
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Epyon


Joined: 02 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Quote:
Only by people who had never watched him. Anyone who watched Pat in 2015 and Pat in 2016 basically saw the same QB. So he went from day 3 to a likely R1 pick over what?


Again, the consensus was that he was a product of the air raid system and for that reason he garnered little attention. I am saying that for the aforementioned reason, he was overlooked.

I thought Paxton was overlooked as well after a decent Sophomore campaign.

Quote:
He's always been this guy who had high 1st round potential due to physicals alone. This isn't a Paxton Lynch situation.


What? No one ever considered him a high R1 pick based on his measurable. Your literally making stuff up. It is exactly a Paxton Lynch situation.

And I think Pat is the top QB prospect in this draft, just don't think he is more than a middle day 2 'sit and learn' type prospect.

I don't want to argue semantics with you because your opinions on him have zero malleability. Your mind is made up and it wont be adjusted in any slight way. That's fine.



It's Kizer that people are seemingly enamored with for no discernible reason beyond measurements... Mahomes can actually play football.


Personally, I see him as a first rounder all the way through, but admittedly not an early first rounder which I don't think this class has...

That being said, the above statement takes no accounting of supply and demand... namely the supply of QBs is low and the demand for them is crazy right now. Something like 2/3rds of the top 15 draft positions are teams that either need a QB immediately, or teams that should probably be scrambling to develop someone to take over for an aging vet.

When accounting for supply and demand at the QB position, if I'm Chicago (for example since that's my home team), I'd be taking Mahomes at 3 with no reservations about it. I mean I'm not happy I'm selecting a mid first round talent with a top 3 pick, but it's what the market is, and you simply cannot have a playoff competitive franchise right now without great QB play.
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Calvin-Stafford


Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 1795
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Mahomes is the only guy that truly intrigues me in terms of first round material for this QB class. His sheer arm talent and improvisational ability will translate to the NFL despite mechanical and footwork issues galore. But even he likely needs at least a year or two before he takes over. Arizona is PERFECT for him.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calvin-Stafford wrote:
I think Mahomes is the only guy that truly intrigues me in terms of first round material for this QB class. His sheer arm talent and improvisational ability will translate to the NFL despite mechanical and footwork issues galore. But even he likely needs at least a year or two before he takes over. Arizona is PERFECT for him.


I like AZ a ton for Kizer or Mahomes.
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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Highboltage55


Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Posts: 189
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would love Mahomes to be groomed behind Rivers but the Cardinals would make the most sense IMO.

He would be great in vertical scheme that BA employs and could take over for Palmer within the next few seasons. San Diego is likely switching to a more "ground and pound" scheme to alleviate Rivers playing hero ball and put more of an emphasis on Gordon being the "bell cow". I'm hoping for Sam Darnold next year but doubt we pick that high.
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