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Random Ravens Thoughts: Third Edition
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Mancunian Raven


Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 3469
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rein wrote:
Mancunian Raven wrote:
If he can't play 3-4 OLB, I don't want him. The Ravens don't need another talented D-lineman, not when they could have someone like Tunsil, Ramsey or Treadwell instead.

If he can play that position, then they should snap him up.


I'm afraid we will go for a LT.

Harbaugh and Ozzie has talked numerous times about the fact that we rarely draft high enough to grab a franchise LT. And with the inconsistent health of Eugene Monroe and the fact that Flacco just ruined is knee because of horrible LT play I think it is fair to assume that we will target a LT.


I wouldn't be too upset with a LT, as long as the guy was genuinely worth the pick. It's true that the Ravens have long struggled to get a franchise LT, and the team has suffered because of it.

Monroe was supposed to be that guy, but it hasn't worked out. Oher was supposed to be that guy, but it didn't work out. Osemele was considered as potentially that guy, but ended up at Guard. They don't take the chance when it's presented, it could be a long time before they get another.

Or they could take the opportunity to get a potentially elite pass rusher, or DB, or WR.

The problem with picking as high as the Ravens will be is that there are a whole load of players to salivate over, and picking any one of them means you miss out on the others.
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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope we do something like trade back a couple spots so someone can pick up a QB, then with that pick take BPA and trade back in to get someone else. We need talent badly
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
I want a playmaker, but I'd also be ok with a LT like Tunsil. This offense needs protection and I'm tired of depending on Monroe. Plus, we can cut Monroe and do something with that money.

Bosa should be at the top of the board as the heir to Sizzle. The only top tier guy I can't get excited about is Nkemdiche.


Yup. Tunsil and Stanley are legitimate top 5-10 left tackle prospects and would be in any draft. Either would be fine for the Ravens since Monroe is once again proving that he can't stay on the field. A flashier pick might look better to some but consistent left tackle play is just as important for this team.

It would be really nice to have a left tackle the team could run behind again too. Both Tunsil and Stanley look to be significantly better than Monroe in that regard (while still being worth a top ten pick as a pass protector).

Baltimore wouldn't open up a ton of cap space by cutting him but at this point it's not about the money. They need a guy that can stay in the game and keep Hurst of the field. If he doesn't go down again today Flacco probably doesn't hurt his knee.
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
Baltimore wouldn't open up a ton of cap space by cutting him but at this point it's not about the money. They need a guy that can stay in the game and keep Hurst of the field. If he doesn't go down again today Flacco probably doesn't hurt his knee.


We gain $20M over the next 3 years if we cut him. That's enough to bring in a starter.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
Baltimore wouldn't open up a ton of cap space by cutting him but at this point it's not about the money. They need a guy that can stay in the game and keep Hurst of the field. If he doesn't go down again today Flacco probably doesn't hurt his knee.


We gain $20M over the next 3 years if we cut him. That's enough to bring in a starter.


I tend to look at as a year-by-year basis. In that sense the Ravens only open up $2.1 million next season by cutting Monroe. That's not an insignificant chunk of change, but probably not enough to bring in a meaningful starter.

Most of us thought the Ravens got Monroe on a good contract (and they would have if he could stay healthy) and his hirt year cap charge was $3.2 million. With the cap making fairly big leaps every year that $2.1 million isn't going to be a gamechanger. Especially if you're looking at a starter for the positions the Baltimore could use one at.
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
Baltimore wouldn't open up a ton of cap space by cutting him but at this point it's not about the money. They need a guy that can stay in the game and keep Hurst of the field. If he doesn't go down again today Flacco probably doesn't hurt his knee.


We gain $20M over the next 3 years if we cut him. That's enough to bring in a starter.


I tend to look at as a year-by-year basis. In that sense the Ravens only open up $2.1 million next season by cutting Monroe. That's not an insignificant chunk of change, but probably not enough to bring in a meaningful starter.

Most of us thought the Ravens got Monroe on a good contract (and they would have if he could stay healthy) and his hirt year cap charge was $3.2 million. With the cap making fairly big leaps every year that $2.1 million isn't going to be a gamechanger. Especially if you're looking at a starter for the positions the Baltimore could use one at.


That's the wrong way to look at it, TBH. If we want to have Monroe next year we have to pay him an additional $6.5M. The 6.6 cap charge from the signing bonus is a sunk cost. Whether it gets charged all in 2016 or parts of it go the following years, doesn't really matter. Cap space now rolls over year to year and it's easy to push back cap hits with restructures so the acceleration means nothing with today's rules.

We are going to restructure Flacco's deal anyway, so it'll be easy make an additional $4.4M a signing bonus (charged the following 2 years) to completely negate the timing impact of Monroe's dead cap acceleration, if we actually wanted to keep the dead hits where they are.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
That's the wrong way to look at it, TBH. If we want to have Monroe next year we have to pay him an additional $6.5M. The 6.6 cap charge from the signing bonus is a sunk cost. Whether it gets charged all in 2016 or parts of it go the following years, doesn't really matter. Cap space now rolls over year to year and it's easy to push back cap hits with restructures so the acceleration means nothing with today's rules.

We are going to restructure Flacco's deal anyway, so it'll be easy make an additional $4.4M a signing bonus (charged the following 2 years) to completely negate the timing impact of Monroe's dead cap acceleration, if we actually wanted to keep the dead hits where they are.


I'm not sure what you're getting at with the first part. I know there's already a sunk cost with Monroe, that's why I only mentioned what cutting Monroe would open up for the Ravens next season. That's all there is to it really. I don't think Baltimore goes into an offseason thinking about saving cap space for the next offseason. They usually spend just about all of it with some cushion left over for IR moves and such during the season.
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many high draft pick LT's have actually panned out as of late? It seems like there's been a lot of busts or underwhelming OT's who have gone high in the draft lately, even in the supposed 'high floor' guys, it just seems like maybe something is a bit off in the learning curve or scouting of the position across the league. I'm not thrilled with Monroe [another somewhat underwhelming high 1st rounder himself] with how soft he seems to be but I don't like the idea of creating another big hole for us by cutting him and then having to use our best asset to then plug that hole.
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KiddKillah


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the chances Torrey Smith gets cut this offseason? He's certainly been a bust in San Fran. I think they'll give him one more chance though, and if he continues this horrid pace of being a non-factor, he'll be out. We could see him back here as soon as 2017.
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KiddKillah wrote:
What's the chances Torrey Smith gets cut this offseason? He's certainly been a bust in San Fran. I think they'll give him one more chance though, and if he continues this horrid pace of being a non-factor, he'll be out. We could see him back here as soon as 2017.


A bunch of us are expecting this.

The 49ers will have so much cap space with all their losses and probably letting Kaep go, that they may not even care to do it this offseason.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
KiddKillah wrote:
What's the chances Torrey Smith gets cut this offseason? He's certainly been a bust in San Fran. I think they'll give him one more chance though, and if he continues this horrid pace of being a non-factor, he'll be out. We could see him back here as soon as 2017.


A bunch of us are expecting this.

The 49ers will have so much cap space with all their losses and probably letting Kaep go, that they may not even care to do it this offseason.


come on home Torrey, you know you want to.
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
KiddKillah wrote:
What's the chances Torrey Smith gets cut this offseason? He's certainly been a bust in San Fran. I think they'll give him one more chance though, and if he continues this horrid pace of being a non-factor, he'll be out. We could see him back here as soon as 2017.


A bunch of us are expecting this.

The 49ers will have so much cap space with all their losses and probably letting Kaep go, that they may not even care to do it this offseason.


come on home Torrey, you know you want to.


Of course he wants to. Kamar Aiken right now has more catches, yards, and TDs than him this season.

Going to be a STEEP paycut though.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
KiddKillah wrote:
What's the chances Torrey Smith gets cut this offseason? He's certainly been a bust in San Fran. I think they'll give him one more chance though, and if he continues this horrid pace of being a non-factor, he'll be out. We could see him back here as soon as 2017.


A bunch of us are expecting this.

The 49ers will have so much cap space with all their losses and probably letting Kaep go, that they may not even care to do it this offseason.


come on home Torrey, you know you want to.


Of course he wants to. Kamar Aiken right now has more catches, yards, and TDs than him this season.

Going to be a STEEP paycut though.


tbh I think he'll take it.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
How many high draft pick LT's have actually panned out as of late? It seems like there's been a lot of busts or underwhelming OT's who have gone high in the draft lately, even in the supposed 'high floor' guys, it just seems like maybe something is a bit off in the learning curve or scouting of the position across the league. I'm not thrilled with Monroe [another somewhat underwhelming high 1st rounder himself] with how soft he seems to be but I don't like the idea of creating another big hole for us by cutting him and then having to use our best asset to then plug that hole.


It has been a rough few years for first round tackles. Here they are starting from last year:

2014 - Greg Robinson #2, Jake Matthews #6, Taylor Lewan #11, Zack Martin #16 (RG now), Ja'Wuan James #19
2013 - Eric Fisher #1, Luke Joeckel #2, Lane Johnson #4, D.J. Fluker #11, Justin Pugh #19 (LG now)
2012 - Matt Kalil #4, Riley Rieff #23
2011 - Tyron Smith #9, Nate Solder #17, Anthony Castonzo #22, James Carpenter #25 (LG now), Gabe Carimi #29, Derek Sherrod #32
2010 - Trent Williams #4, Russel Okung #6, Anthony Davis #11, Bryan Bulaga #23
2009 - Jason Smith #2, Andre Smith #6, Eugene Monroe #8, Michael Oher #23

What's interesting is that the success and failures from this list are from a mix of pro style and spread offenses so I don't think you can attribute it one way or the other there. There have been far more disappointments than successes though. But, none of those guys are named Laremy Tunsil or Ronnie Stanley. I don't think what's happened with those guys has any bearing on future draft picks. It's probably a detriment to NFL coaching more than anything else.

I used to feel the same way about how letting Monroe go would just open up an unnecessary hole. But he just can't stay healthy/on the field and good blocking might be the most important thing for Flacco and the rest of this offense. The whole thing pretty much goes down the drain when the left side is collapsing. Neither Flacco or the rest of the guys on offense can compensate. Now whether or not you would want to address that is another discussion, but I think that comes down to preference/philosophy.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can just see it now. After Cinci loses this game, Harbaugh comes to the podium tomorrow or Tuesday or whenever and says "the division is still wide open. We can get hot and Matt Schaub can lead this team. The guys believe it, I believe it. This season's not over!"
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