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2016 Draft Thread
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Duffman57


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:07 pm    Post subject: 2016 Draft Thread Reply with quote

Was debating starting this just because the season's just about halfway over at this point and we still have a LOT of football left to go, but I'm insanely bored and don't have anything to do with my time. I wanted to hear what everyones thoughts were about this draft class, what we should be targeting and who would be a good fit in the range that we may be picking.

I'll start it off just saying that IMO, we simply need PLAYMAKERS on D. This D is lacking talent and anybody that plays even slightly with an edge. Guys I've looked into are Nkemdiche, Jalen Ramsey and Myles Jack, the first two probably won't be available. But we could look into Jaylon Smith along with some other LB's. One person who stuck out as really interesting to me was Andrew Billings at NT. Could be used in a few different ways, but would fit well with the 1T that we are using Lissemore alot at now.

I don't really have a problem with the offense if we can keep them healthy. This OL is more than talented enough, RB is set, QB is set, though we could use a WR after this season is over depending on how guys like Inman/Williams develop.

What do you guys think?
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Zappaz


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I definitely think we need a WR, preferably one with very good speed. One thing we've lacked at that spot lately is a true burner type guy. TE might also be somewhere we need to address, depending on if we can resign Green and if Gates retires. I also think if we could get a later round QB to groom that might be beneficial. I know we'll have Rivers for a while but I think we should find someone who can learn from him for a few years. I wouldn't mind another NCSU guy in Jacoby Brissett.

I totally agree on D as well. We need guys who have that ability to just get after the ball. We need to start winning the turnover battle if we wanna win games.
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do I think? I think I dread the idea of John Spanos (yes, he has as much stroke on calling the draft picks as Telesco does) calling the shot on a Top 10 pick because we're not going to get a blue-chipper to fill a current need. We'll get "bluechip talent" but it will be, yet again, somewhere we aren't that hard up. And it will be an "LA Marketable" player over best player available.

In other words, brace yourselves for them to let Weddle walk and use a Top 10 pick on Su'a Cravens, or to tag Weddle and spend a Top 10 pick on Myles Jack (who I have no idea how he fits into our defense without a noteworthy scheme change - because I don't see a 3-4 EDGE in him; he's a Shaq Thompson clone and I have the same concerns about him fitting us as I did Shaq).
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Neutral


Joined: 08 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 2016 Draft Thread Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
I'll start it off just saying that IMO, we simply need PLAYMAKERS on D. This D is lacking talent and anybody that plays even slightly with an edge. Guys I've looked into are Nkemdiche, Jalen Ramsey and Myles Jack, the first two probably won't be available. But we could look into Jaylon Smith along with some other LB's. One person who stuck out as really interesting to me was Andrew Billings at NT. Could be used in a few different ways, but would fit well with the 1T that we are using Lissemore alot at now.


My first thought a while ago was that LB (ILB) wouldn't be a position they'd look at, but the more I think about it, it makes sense. The impression I get of Te'o is someone the coaching staff loves because of his understanding of the game and ability to give guidance in the film room/practice. But we're also talking about a player who came into the league with below-average athleticism and has missed playing time in all three seasons with foot/ankle injuries. I think he ends up settling in as a high-end #3 under a new coaching staff. And, thinking about what you said at draft time, Perryman might not be a player the team wants in coverage packages. So, I could see a playmaking LB as a logical pick.

It's tough to project just what a new coaching staff would be looking for in a defensive lineman. I'm doing a GM mock where the Chargers had the #12 pick, and took A'Shawn Robinson (Reed went two picks later). I was looking for someone who can be moved around between 5-T, 3-T, and 1-T depending on the defensive package and playcall. Nkemdiche is a better fit if they're looking for someone to do what Reyes is currently being asked to do. Also hard to say that we won't be in position to draft certain players. If the season ended today, we'd have the #3 pick (using Woz's week 6 SOS calcs). Bosa, or another premier edge rusher could be an option with Melvin Ingram playing full-time LB.
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffy and I have been saying it for some time, but the best fit for this club right now given who we have under contract for more than a year for the foreseeable future (particularly the younger guys), would be for a new DC to shift us full-time to a 4-3 Under similar to what Seattle, Jacksonville, and Atlanta run. Translation - pray Gus Bradley gets canned and John-boy and co have enough sense to swoop and... aww crap.

But yeah... does it make Carrethers largely a bit-player? Yes. Though he'd still see some heavy rotation in, a la Alan Branch when he was with Seattle.

But you end up looking at a front seven that looks like


(LDE) Matthews/Reyes/Draft Pick - (LDT) Carrethers - (RDT) Liuget - (LEO) Attaochu

(WLB) Ingram - (MLB) Perryman/Te'o - (SLB) Emanuel/Perryman

A lot depends on how guys slot in and how high of a draft pick gets invested on the DL. But there's a lot of allowance for variation depending on whether Te'o isn't a liability as the MIKE, allowing Perryman to slide over and play the SAM (Bruce Irvin) role. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Emanuel could play the WILL (KJ Wright) role, but it'd be a pencil-in, because I feel like Attaochu as the speed-rusher is actually the better fit at LEO than Ingram (and his one - spin - move) is. It's not inconceivable that Ingram could add on a bit more bulk and an slot in at LDE (Michael Bennett) because he's actually shown promise as an interior rusher, but you'd want to really feel secure about the WILL backing him up then because there will be times he'll just get engulfed by guard/tackle combos that are both good and really big.

Ideally though, you're providing a new (dynamic) pass-rusher on the opposite side from Liuget to keep teams from being able to constantly shade double-teams his way - and setting things up so that, in the event they still do, you've got the speed-rusher Attaochu lined up in the 9-technique with a TE (and an RB in the backfield) being tasked with blocking him.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's it look like when they're in nickel and dime formations?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neutral wrote:
What's it look like when they're in nickel and dime formations?

Probably heavily dependent upon who is healthy and who is performing. But I would assume the aim would be to probably pull Carrethers, shift the LDE one spot to the right, drop Ingram down to LDE, and bring on the nickel back. But a lot depends on how the linebackers shake out and who shows capable of being able to play where.

Certain questions to be asked:
- Can Perryman play well in coverage at least in shallow zone (until passing off a RB or TE to the SS)? Can Te'o? (though we probably already know the answer to that) Can Emanuel? We know that Ingram can, but unless we manage to get a Michael Bennett (clone) type that can play all 3 downs at the LDE spot as well, and we then rotate a 1T/3T hybrid type in for Carrethers, Ingram is best served dropping down as a downed-lineman there.
- Is Ingram in the long-term plans? Are we in his if we move him to a position where he's rushing the passer less often? (which will obvious cut the chance for him to earn "big money" on his 2nd deal)
- Can we lay hands on (if we don't believe one of Mager or Jimmy Wilson are) a SS capable of playing up in the mix with the front-seven and covering/carrying TE's from the intermediate zone onward?
- Do we have (or can we get) a FS capable (physically and mentally) of playing centerfield?
- Are our CB's (and coaches) willing to get rid of those ridiculous 5-7 yard cushions and let out CB's play bump-and-run/bail? Verrett can do it. Flowers isn't fond of it, but while it's not ideal he can function at it. Robinson is at least functional in it. The trick is more in finding CB's with good hips than it is "big, honkin' long monsters that can crack opposing receivers at the line".
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game3525


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I definitely think we need a WR, preferably one with very good speed. One thing we've lacked at that spot lately is a true burner type guy.


Yup, one of the biggest reason are offense has slow starts is due to field position. The Chargers are consistently near the bottom in average starting position and makes Rivers job much more difficult.

And I agree with Duffman, the team really needs some impact players on defense. It can be corner, safety, d-line etc. It doesn't matter, the team lacks difference makers and that is what separates this team from the mid-2000s teams.
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Specialist11


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just spitballing here: What about Ingram at SLB in the base 4-3 Under—that way he maintains at least a small pass-rushing threat—and then a move to LDE on obvious passing downs? Then keep Perryman at MLB full-time.

Mostly mentioning this because I feel like WLB is arguably the easiest position to find a right-out-of-the-box, ready-made contributor in the mid-rounds (pure speculation on my part, by the way). And Emanuel presents a good backup plan here, worst-case scenario.
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Specialist11 wrote:
Just spitballing here: What about Ingram at SLB in the base 4-3 Under—that way he maintains at least a small pass-rushing threat—and then a move to LDE on obvious passing downs? Then keep Perryman at MLB full-time.

Mostly mentioning this because I feel like WLB is arguably the easiest position to find a right-out-of-the-box, ready-made contributor in the mid-rounds (pure speculation on my part, by the way). And Emanuel presents a good backup plan here, worst-case scenario.


I think LBC screwed up Will vs Sam LB in his diagram. Ingram would play as the "on ball" LB opposite the LEO/Rush Backer. Its pretty similar to the position he has been playing but with more LB responsibilities. The MLB and SLB are going to be the more "off ball" type LB's in this scheme.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
Specialist11 wrote:
Just spitballing here: What about Ingram at SLB in the base 4-3 Under—that way he maintains at least a small pass-rushing threat—and then a move to LDE on obvious passing downs? Then keep Perryman at MLB full-time.

Mostly mentioning this because I feel like WLB is arguably the easiest position to find a right-out-of-the-box, ready-made contributor in the mid-rounds (pure speculation on my part, by the way). And Emanuel presents a good backup plan here, worst-case scenario.


I think LBC screwed up Will vs Sam LB in his diagram. Ingram would play as the "on ball" LB opposite the LEO/Rush Backer. Its pretty similar to the position he has been playing but with more LB responsibilities. The MLB and SLB are going to be the more "off ball" type LB's in this scheme.

Don't blame me. Blame the layout and terms used on the depth chart of Seattle's official site. It seemed odd to me that they had the LB lined up on the left as the WLB, but I went with it. Maybe they're defining the "defense's" weak side versus the QB's weak/blind side?
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KWill26


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A switch to a 4-3 is an interesting idea and is plausible but I for one believe that the talent on our roster as of now best fits the 3-4 scheme.

The defensive line isn't playing particularly well, but I think that T'eo, Perryman, and Attaochu are filling their roles pretty nicely.

The team never invested enough resources in getting talent at Nose Tackle and 5-tech. Lissemore and Reyes are serviceable but not the type of guys that start for an above average defense.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:21 am    Post subject: Re: 2016 Draft Thread Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
RB is set


This is my pick for this year's sneaky, under-the-radar need.

I'm not advocating that they move on from Melvin Gordon. He deserves another shot to prove he can be the primary RB. When he's gotten space/blocking this year, he's shown off that combination of speed and power that got people excited about him as a prospect. Where he's been weak is getting hesitant and failing to make positive gains out of poor blocking (though I've never seen a RB have to shed so many tacklers just to get back to the line of scrimmage). But, I also feel the same way about Oliver. I love how tough he is to bring down, but he was largely feast or famine as a runner in 2014 based on whether he could get running holes or given the ball in space. I see him as a player that's a bit redundant to what we already have in Gordon. What we need is more of a powerful N-S runner to provide a change of pace.
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey LBC, have you seen any of Sheldon Rankins? I just watched him a little and he's interesting. I see some of McClendon/Paea in him, wins with power and leverage, but by no means a big NT. I could see him being a really good fit for the type of DL that we've liked. Him, Malik Collins, or your boy Day, plus Philon, Liuget, Carruthers and Lissemore would make a pretty damn good interior DL rotation if we ran more of a base 4-3 Under.
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:52 pm    Post subject: Re: 2016 Draft Thread Reply with quote

Neutral wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:
RB is set


This is my pick for this year's sneaky, under-the-radar need.

I'm not advocating that they move on from Melvin Gordon. He deserves another shot to prove he can be the primary RB. When he's gotten space/blocking this year, he's shown off that combination of speed and power that got people excited about him as a prospect. Where he's been weak is getting hesitant and failing to make positive gains out of poor blocking (though I've never seen a RB have to shed so many tacklers just to get back to the line of scrimmage). But, I also feel the same way about Oliver. I love how tough he is to bring down, but he was largely feast or famine as a runner in 2014 based on whether he could get running holes or given the ball in space. I see him as a player that's a bit redundant to what we already have in Gordon. What we need is more of a powerful N-S runner to provide a change of pace.


I think that comes in FA's. Getting a vet like Starks potentially would be a very good fit here IMO, solid #2 and a guy who excels at the one cut and go running style that Gordon needs to get better at. Would probably take a deal like what we gave Brown, and would just take his spot on the team except better. Alfred Morris would be another interesting fit, and he's a little bit more of a powerful runner than Starks, but that same one cut and go style. He's getting replaced by Matt Jones and is coming off more than a few bad years.
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