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Go_Giants


Joined: 19 Jan 2015
Posts: 285
Location: New York City
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
BTW guys, lets get back to current day events rather than talking about how Mara and 25 other owners took cap space from us for 2 years for not going along with their scheme to screw over the players.

Let's get back to talking about this year. We had crapped the bed lately and the Jints have an outside chance at the division.


I disagree with the example you used for Walkie Talkie gate, but it sounds like you want to move on from that talk, I have no problems with that.

I think you guys can still make the playoffs and I am cheering for you to make it. The teams that matter that are ahead of you are the Lions and Bucs. If the Giants beat the Eagles that will put pressure on Dallas to beat Detroit. From there they will either have a 10-6 record and eliminate the packers or they will have a 9-7 from losing to the Packers. As for the Bucs thinking 50/50 chance that the Saints at home or the Panthers can knock them off.

So just don't lose to the Bears, and as for the Giants if they beat the Eagles I can't see them playing their key starters the entire game for a game they don't need.
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Gmen


Joined: 20 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm not sure you understand the fact that the 2010 year had no cap. Laughing

I can draw you a flow chart if you'd like. Or you could read my words in bold right above this a few more times.

you keep saying it like there was one. There wasn't. The Redskins and Cowboys cheated no one. They proceeded through 2010 as it was intended. As an uncapped year. The fact that your team and 26 others decided to screw the players over an illegally collude is the bigger issue. But yeah, keep saying my team violated a salary cap in an uncapped year Laughing

You can bold it, underline, italicize, whatever. It doesn't change the fact that the Redskins tried to gain an advantage using the uncapped year when everyone was warned not to. Yes 2010 was an uncapped year - the years preceding and succeeding 2010 were capped. So setting up contracts to pay out players more money in the uncapped year, to help yourself salary cap wise in the following capped years, is a pretty blatant competitive advantage. And as the great John Mara said, you're lucky you didn't lose draft picks. Maybe they took pity on the fact that it was Albert Haynesworth you signed. Laughing
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MikeT14


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It still doesn't account for getting penalized for breaking a rule if there were no rules to break.
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MikeT14


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Gmen"]
Quote:
And as the great John Mara said, you're lucky you didn't lose draft picks.


I remember when he said that. The reporter took that quote from Mara when he was underneath Goodell's desk.
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Gmen


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeT14 wrote:
It still doesn't account for getting penalized for breaking a rule if there were no rules to break.

There was a rule. They colluded. Remember?
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Jeezy Fanatic


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
MikeT14 wrote:
It still doesn't account for getting penalized for breaking a rule if there were no rules to break.

There was a rule. They colluded. Remember?


Do you know what collusion means? The rest of the league colluded to keep to an unwritten cap.
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Gmen


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeezy Fanatic wrote:
Gmen wrote:
MikeT14 wrote:
It still doesn't account for getting penalized for breaking a rule if there were no rules to break.

There was a rule. They colluded. Remember?


Do you know what collusion means? The rest of the league colluded to keep to an unwritten cap.

Exactly. So there was an unwritten cap the Redskins violated. The Redskins, and everyone else, were aware of this rule. The Redskins decided to ignore it, not because they were being virtuous, but to gain an advantage for themselves. Let me stress that - The Redskins and Cowboys did what they did not because they were trying to look out for the players. They did it to gain an advantage over the rest of the league. But in the end, the good guys won.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
Jeezy Fanatic wrote:
Gmen wrote:
MikeT14 wrote:
It still doesn't account for getting penalized for breaking a rule if there were no rules to break.

There was a rule. They colluded. Remember?


Do you know what collusion means? The rest of the league colluded to keep to an unwritten cap.

Exactly. So there was an unwritten cap the Redskins violated. The Redskins, and everyone else, were aware of this rule. The Redskins decided to ignore it, not because they were being virtuous, but to gain an advantage for themselves. Let me stress that - The Redskins and Cowboys did what they did not because they were trying to look out for the players. They did it to gain an advantage over the rest of the league. But in the end, the good guys won.



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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
Jeezy Fanatic wrote:
Gmen wrote:
MikeT14 wrote:
It still doesn't account for getting penalized for breaking a rule if there were no rules to break.

There was a rule. They colluded. Remember?


Do you know what collusion means? The rest of the league colluded to keep to an unwritten cap.

Exactly. So there was an unwritten cap the Redskins violated. The Redskins, and everyone else, were aware of this rule. The Redskins decided to ignore it, not because they were being virtuous, but to gain an advantage for themselves. Let me stress that - The Redskins and Cowboys did what they did not because they were trying to look out for the players. They did it to gain an advantage over the rest of the league. But in the end, the good guys won.
Having an unwritten rule basically means there is no rule. I don't know how the NFL league office or any judge can decide that taking away $36 million in cap space away from the Redskins is just when there is no written rule that said it was illegal to do so.

It's a he said he said thing and the Skins shouldn't have been penalized because although it's been said that the skins and cowboys dumped players salaries when the NFL owners agreed no one would do that in the uncapped year, it wasn't a written rule.

It was a verbal agreement or a handshake and a nod agreement.

There was nothing on paper to justify taking the cap space away from the skins and cowboys in 2012 & 13.

It should have been a fine of the organization or something like you all just got levied on you. Skins and Cowboys didn't even break a written rule, the Giants just did and you got a far lesser punishment. In both cases the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

Now, obviously the skins still won the division in 2012 without that $18 million in cap space to spend but it still hindered them. $18 million was worth two pro bowl level starters 4 years ago or 3 or 4 good starters. Back in 2012 & 13 the skins had questionmarks in their WR core, at RT, at their 3-4 DE positions and in their secondary. You give that Redskins roster in 2012 a better RT, WR, one better 3-4 DE and a good FS and we may have beaten the Seahawks in the 2013 playoff game.
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 19352
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
Jeezy Fanatic wrote:
Gmen wrote:
MikeT14 wrote:
It still doesn't account for getting penalized for breaking a rule if there were no rules to break.

There was a rule. They colluded. Remember?


Do you know what collusion means? The rest of the league colluded to keep to an unwritten cap.

Exactly. So there was an unwritten cap the Redskins violated. The Redskins, and everyone else, were aware of this rule. The Redskins decided to ignore it, not because they were being virtuous, but to gain an advantage for themselves. Let me stress that - The Redskins and Cowboys did what they did not because they were trying to look out for the players. They did it to gain an advantage over the rest of the league. But in the end, the good guys won.
Billionaires colluding to deprive their employees money aren't good guys.
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Gmen


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
Gmen wrote:
Jeezy Fanatic wrote:
Gmen wrote:
MikeT14 wrote:
It still doesn't account for getting penalized for breaking a rule if there were no rules to break.

There was a rule. They colluded. Remember?


Do you know what collusion means? The rest of the league colluded to keep to an unwritten cap.

Exactly. So there was an unwritten cap the Redskins violated. The Redskins, and everyone else, were aware of this rule. The Redskins decided to ignore it, not because they were being virtuous, but to gain an advantage for themselves. Let me stress that - The Redskins and Cowboys did what they did not because they were trying to look out for the players. They did it to gain an advantage over the rest of the league. But in the end, the good guys won.
Billionaires colluding to deprive their employees money aren't good guys.

You know, if Danny and Jerrah were such virtuous billionaires looking out for the players and NFLPA, they would have just given every one of their current players a 30% pay raise in the uncapped year. I don't think the NFL would have taken one ounce of offence to that. But that's not what they did. Instead they tried some fancy accounting to unfairly improve their roster.
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Gmen


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It should have been a fine of the organization or something like you all just got levied on you. Skins and Cowboys didn't even break a written rule, the Giants just did and you got a far lesser punishment. In both cases the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

The Redskins weren't actually punished. The league simply undid the unfair advantage that the Redskins tried to gain. That's why each team lost a specific amount of cap space. A punishment would have involved a loss of draft pick and fine - like what just happened to the Giants.
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- Ernie Accorsi scouting report of Eli
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
Quote:
It should have been a fine of the organization or something like you all just got levied on you. Skins and Cowboys didn't even break a written rule, the Giants just did and you got a far lesser punishment. In both cases the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

The Redskins weren't actually punished. The league simply undid the unfair advantage that the Redskins tried to gain. That's why each team lost a specific amount of cap space. A punishment would have involved a loss of draft pick and fine - like what just happened to the Giants.
The majority of the cap the Redskins removed was dead cap from cutting Albert Haynesworth. Putting Albert Haynesworth out of a job wasn't a competitive advantage it was a public service.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

‪Beckham knocks head against wall after Giants heartbreaker

http://nyp.st/2heYvht via @nypostsports‬

Laughing
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
Quote:
I'm not sure you understand the fact that the 2010 year had no cap. Laughing

I can draw you a flow chart if you'd like. Or you could read my words in bold right above this a few more times.

you keep saying it like there was one. There wasn't. The Redskins and Cowboys cheated no one. They proceeded through 2010 as it was intended. As an uncapped year. The fact that your team and 26 others decided to screw the players over an illegally collude is the bigger issue. But yeah, keep saying my team violated a salary cap in an uncapped year Laughing

You can bold it, underline, italicize, whatever. It doesn't change the fact that the Redskins tried to gain an advantage using the uncapped year when everyone was warned not to.


The whole purpose of the uncapped year was to allow teams to spend as if ... wait for it...there was no...

... cap

Please show me the rule that all 32 owners agreed to where they all agreed to violate Federal law.

I'll wait while you try to find it.

Gmen wrote:
es 2010 was an uncapped year - the years preceding and succeeding 2010 were capped.


Hallelujah! I think he might be getting it!!

Gmen wrote:
So setting up contracts to pay out players more money in the uncapped year, to help yourself salary cap wise in the following capped years, is a pretty blatant competitive advantage.


Every single owner could have done the same thing. It violated no rule to do so.

Again. Point out the rule. I'll wait. In fact the league approved all the 2010 contracts so-as to not let the NFLPA know that the collusion was occurring. It wasn't until after the next CBA was signed that the owners admitted to double dealing.

So really the only competitive advantage gained here was the 26 owners who helped themselves to the Cowboys and Redskins cap.

Gmen wrote:
And as the great John Mara said, you're lucky you didn't lose draft picks. Maybe they took pity on the fact that it was Albert Haynesworth you signed. Laughing


We shouldn't have lost anything. But given that the guy driving this was Mara and conveniently it was his division rivals getting screwed over, well, that shows me all I need to know about his character.

Say what you want about Danny and Jerruh. They didn't engage in a violation of Federal law like the 26 owners (including the so-called "great John Mara").
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