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raiderrocker18


Joined: 09 Dec 2014
Posts: 4804
Location: Los Angeles
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

is there any word when the league is expected to comment on aldon smith? we heard they deferred to march... is there a target date?

i'm aware the recent incident is probably bad news for him, but it would be good to get some kind of update from the league regardless

its better than keeping the team in limbo during free agency... as they could look for another edge defender if he's not expected back, etc
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SBXISBXVSBXVIII


Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 3703
Location: Illinois
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

raiderrocker18 wrote:
is there any word when the league is expected to comment on aldon smith? we heard they deferred to march... is there a target date?

i'm aware the recent incident is probably bad news for him, but it would be good to get some kind of update from the league regardless

its better than keeping the team in limbo during free agency... as they could look for another edge defender if he's not expected back, etc

The team wouldn't be in limbo if they'd just cut him
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Rolni


Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 3392
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This guy suggest a position switch to Sean Smith:
http://cover32.com/2017/03/14/raiders-cb-smith-excel-position-change/

He would move Smith to safety and go CB early in his mock...
http://cover32.com/2017/03/17/2017-raiders-mock3/


I'm not sure, but who knows...SS has the size to play S for sure and there were multiple older CB's, who switched successfully to S later in their carrier.


What would you guys think about a switch like that?
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drfrey13


Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Posts: 1378
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolni wrote:
This guy suggest a position switch to Sean Smith:
http://cover32.com/2017/03/14/raiders-cb-smith-excel-position-change/

He would move Smith to safety and go CB early in his mock...
http://cover32.com/2017/03/17/2017-raiders-mock3/


I'm not sure, but who knows...SS has the size to play S for sure and there were multiple older CB's, who switched successfully to S later in their carrier.


What would you guys think about a switch like that?


He would have to excel to justify the pay at the free safety position. I have had the same thoughts about moving him to safety but if he ends up an average to above average FS we are better off just cutting him. $9.5 million is top 5 free safety money.
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Rich7sena


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 6681
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolni wrote:
This guy suggest a position switch to Sean Smith:
http://cover32.com/2017/03/14/raiders-cb-smith-excel-position-change/

He would move Smith to safety and go CB early in his mock...
http://cover32.com/2017/03/17/2017-raiders-mock3/


I'm not sure, but who knows...SS has the size to play S for sure and there were multiple older CB's, who switched successfully to S later in their carrier.


What would you guys think about a switch like that?

I woulnd't be a fan of him switching. Joseph is best suited to play free safety in our scheme and what we need is a strong safety. I'd rather cut Smith if he plays badly in 2017 than move his position.
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riceraider8080


Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6466
Location: Missoula, Montana
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're already overpaying Smith as a corner, not interested in making him learn a new position and be even more overpayed at a position of less need. IMO, CB is our weakest position on defense. I would prefer we draft a CB with our 1st or 2nd rounder and try to trade Smith during the draft for an early day 3 pick rather than change his position

Ideally tho we keep him at CB and make him compete with a high round rookie for his job
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Rolni


Joined: 08 Jun 2008
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Location: Europe
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:

Edwards will play strongside DE in the base and DT in the nickel.

That's our scheme:

BASE

Sam LB - Strongside DE (5T) - NT - 3T - Weakside DE (Leo)
------------------------------Mike-----Will

I think our scheme and base D started to shift a bit more to a 3-4 in the second half of last season. With Pagano in house I would expect that to continue. This is not a huge thing, since a 3-4 and a 4-3 under D is pretty similar to each other anyway.

I think the interesting part will be the techniques our DL guys play and the gap responsibilities.

I think we will look quite hybrid in base between 3-4 and 4-3under looks depending on Mack being in the dirt or standing up. In the end our base will be a 5-2 and then we don't have to do these 4-3/3-4 debates Smile

I would put our base on paper like this:

Left Edge Defender-Left DL-Nose Tackle-Right DL-Right Edge Defender
---------------------------Left ILB-------Right ILB---------------------------

The left and right edge players would play from 7 or 8, 9 tech.
The left and right DL players would play from 5 or 4 tech most of the time with some 3 tech looks.
The NT's would play 0 or 1 tech.

oakdb36 wrote:

Sam: Irvin
5T: Edwards/Ward/Autry
NT: Williams/Ellis
3T: Latham
Leo: Mack


I would list them like this:
Edge Defender: Mack and Irvin as starters and main "snap takers".

Left, right DL player: Edwards, Ward, Autry and Latham could all play this spot IMO. Obviously Edwards should be a sure starter if he is healthy and the rest can battle, rotate for the other spot, possibly with a rookie in the mix too.

NT: Williams, Jelly and Latham can rotate here IMO.

oakdb36 wrote:

In the nickel, we usually put Mack at LE and Irvin at RE. Probably because Mack is more comfortable rushing from that side.
At DT, we use many different combinations depending on the situation.
The pass rushing set is MEJ and Autry/Ward (so last year, it was Ward and Autry almost exclusively).

Autry is playing a lot of snaps because we're rotating our BASE dline. Last year we basically changed it every series. 1st series: Ward - Williams - McGee; 2nd series: Autry - Ellis - Latham... and so on.
And he's playing a lot in the nickel.

I'm not sure the heavy dline rotation will keep going though. When MEJ became a starter in 2015, he was playing around 80% of the snaps. If he's back healthy, i doubt he's coming out of the game very often. Which would mean a lot less snaps for Autry in the base and his main contribution coming on the nickel.

I see this part pretty much the same. Edwards will be on the field a lot if his body can take it, just like he did in 2015. He will be the main interior pass rusher and probably will only come out when he is gassed out.

Autry, Ward should rotate heavily in as pass rushers and Latham as a stability piece. I mean a guy, who can really be strong against the run, but offer some pass rush too. We saw what happened last year with Autry and Ward as a duo inside...they just run at them...

We will see how much Williams and Jelly will play in nickel and dime packages. If Latham and Edwards plays well enough I would expect pretty few snaps for Williams and Jelly.

I can see us adding an interior pass rusher via draft in the middle or later rounds to battle with Autry and Ward. Ward had an underwhelming rookie season, so competition is needed there and Autry is on a 1 year deal, so we should find his replacement ideally.
If he has a good year, he will get offers, so we might let him walk. If he has a down year or a similar to his 2016 campaign we should let him walk. Either way we should have a guy in house to replace him. That could be Branden Jackson, but I would definately to to bring in another guy.

I would expect us to field these units for TC:
EDGE: Mack, Irvin, Calhoun, Cowser, rookie, rookie/A.Smith, Mulumba
L/R DL: Edwards, Ward, Autry, Latham, rookie, Jackson, Bean, Cherry
NT: Williams, Jelly, Latham, rookie

by rookie I mean draft pick or UDFA
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 16820
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think our defense being hybrid is nothing new or anything we evolved into last season. This is what Seattle's scheme is about. The Leo (Mack) will stand up or have his hand in the dirt but it doesn't change the assignments.

http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/defense-101-understanding-how-the-seahawks-play/

Quote:
Up front, the Seahawks try to get the best of both worlds.


While Seattle uses a base 4-3, it also incorporates many elements of the 3-4.

As Quinn puts it, “We happen to have lots of 3-4 looks, but we are a 4-3 team.’’

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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 2760
Location: Western US
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
I think our defense being hybrid is nothing new or anything we evolved into last season. This is what Seattle's scheme is about. The Leo (Mack) will stand up or have his hand in the dirt but it doesn't change the assignments.

http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/defense-101-understanding-how-the-seahawks-play/

Quote:
Up front, the Seahawks try to get the best of both worlds.


While Seattle uses a base 4-3, it also incorporates many elements of the 3-4.

As Quinn puts it, “We happen to have lots of 3-4 looks, but we are a 4-3 team.’’


It was new to us, which was the point. and the looks and sets we ran absolutely evolved last year with the personal changes.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 16820
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can go back and read the first few pages in this thread and you'll see how new this is.
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 2760
Location: Western US
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
You can go back and read the first few pages in this thread and you'll see how new this is.


Started with the staff being hired and has EVOLVED since then.
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~IMO Reggie has a plan for how much he can spend. The 2-4 FA who sign may surprise us but they will make sense once we draft.
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 6586
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolni wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:

Edwards will play strongside DE in the base and DT in the nickel.

That's our scheme:

BASE

Sam LB - Strongside DE (5T) - NT - 3T - Weakside DE (Leo)
------------------------------Mike-----Will

I think our scheme and base D started to shift a bit more to a 3-4 in the second half of last season. With Pagano in house I would expect that to continue. This is not a huge thing, since a 3-4 and a 4-3 under D is pretty similar to each other anyway.

I think the interesting part will be the techniques our DL guys play and the gap responsibilities.

I think we will look quite hybrid in base between 3-4 and 4-3under looks depending on Mack being in the dirt or standing up. In the end our base will be a 5-2 and then we don't have to do these 4-3/3-4 debates Smile

I would put our base on paper like this:

Left Edge Defender-Left DL-Nose Tackle-Right DL-Right Edge Defender
---------------------------Left ILB-------Right ILB---------------------------

The left and right edge players would play from 7 or 8, 9 tech.
The left and right DL players would play from 5 or 4 tech most of the time with some 3 tech looks.
The NT's would play 0 or 1 tech.

oakdb36 wrote:

Sam: Irvin
5T: Edwards/Ward/Autry
NT: Williams/Ellis
3T: Latham
Leo: Mack


I would list them like this:
Edge Defender: Mack and Irvin as starters and main "snap takers".

Left, right DL player: Edwards, Ward, Autry and Latham could all play this spot IMO. Obviously Edwards should be a sure starter if he is healthy and the rest can battle, rotate for the other spot, possibly with a rookie in the mix too.

NT: Williams, Jelly and Latham can rotate here IMO.

oakdb36 wrote:

In the nickel, we usually put Mack at LE and Irvin at RE. Probably because Mack is more comfortable rushing from that side.
At DT, we use many different combinations depending on the situation.
The pass rushing set is MEJ and Autry/Ward (so last year, it was Ward and Autry almost exclusively).

Autry is playing a lot of snaps because we're rotating our BASE dline. Last year we basically changed it every series. 1st series: Ward - Williams - McGee; 2nd series: Autry - Ellis - Latham... and so on.
And he's playing a lot in the nickel.

I'm not sure the heavy dline rotation will keep going though. When MEJ became a starter in 2015, he was playing around 80% of the snaps. If he's back healthy, i doubt he's coming out of the game very often. Which would mean a lot less snaps for Autry in the base and his main contribution coming on the nickel.

I see this part pretty much the same. Edwards will be on the field a lot if his body can take it, just like he did in 2015. He will be the main interior pass rusher and probably will only come out when he is gassed out.

Autry, Ward should rotate heavily in as pass rushers and Latham as a stability piece. I mean a guy, who can really be strong against the run, but offer some pass rush too. We saw what happened last year with Autry and Ward as a duo inside...they just run at them...

We will see how much Williams and Jelly will play in nickel and dime packages. If Latham and Edwards plays well enough I would expect pretty few snaps for Williams and Jelly.

I can see us adding an interior pass rusher via draft in the middle or later rounds to battle with Autry and Ward. Ward had an underwhelming rookie season, so competition is needed there and Autry is on a 1 year deal, so we should find his replacement ideally.
If he has a good year, he will get offers, so we might let him walk. If he has a down year or a similar to his 2016 campaign we should let him walk. Either way we should have a guy in house to replace him. That could be Branden Jackson, but I would definately to to bring in another guy.

I would expect us to field these units for TC:
EDGE: Mack, Irvin, Calhoun, Cowser, rookie, rookie/A.Smith, Mulumba
L/R DL: Edwards, Ward, Autry, Latham, rookie, Jackson, Bean, Cherry
NT: Williams, Jelly, Latham, rookie

by rookie I mean draft pick or UDFA


Pretty much how I see it tbh. Ward in TC appeared to be the real deal according to reports so i'd be surprised if we take a DT early.

Personally I think our inability to stop the run, in turn caused us problems with the pass. Our pass rush had to respect the run and that will always hinder the pass rush. We need Dan Williams to return to his '15 form and Ellis to be healthy again. Maybe we should go back to those 2 playing more together on early downs to make it more obvious passing downs. That helps the pass rush to tee off.

We seem to have a number of DE/DT type players in Edwards, Ward, Latham, Autry but a vet like Odrick may help. I'd like to get a NT in the later rounds of the draft, DJ Jones/Tu'ikolovatu.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 16820
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
You can go back and read the first few pages in this thread and you'll see how new this is.


Started with the staff being hired and has EVOLVED since then.


Please inform me about the evolution.
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drfrey13


Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Posts: 1378
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dessie wrote:
Rolni wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:

Edwards will play strongside DE in the base and DT in the nickel.

That's our scheme:

BASE

Sam LB - Strongside DE (5T) - NT - 3T - Weakside DE (Leo)
------------------------------Mike-----Will

I think our scheme and base D started to shift a bit more to a 3-4 in the second half of last season. With Pagano in house I would expect that to continue. This is not a huge thing, since a 3-4 and a 4-3 under D is pretty similar to each other anyway.

I think the interesting part will be the techniques our DL guys play and the gap responsibilities.

I think we will look quite hybrid in base between 3-4 and 4-3under looks depending on Mack being in the dirt or standing up. In the end our base will be a 5-2 and then we don't have to do these 4-3/3-4 debates Smile

I would put our base on paper like this:

Left Edge Defender-Left DL-Nose Tackle-Right DL-Right Edge Defender
---------------------------Left ILB-------Right ILB---------------------------

The left and right edge players would play from 7 or 8, 9 tech.
The left and right DL players would play from 5 or 4 tech most of the time with some 3 tech looks.
The NT's would play 0 or 1 tech.

oakdb36 wrote:

Sam: Irvin
5T: Edwards/Ward/Autry
NT: Williams/Ellis
3T: Latham
Leo: Mack


I would list them like this:
Edge Defender: Mack and Irvin as starters and main "snap takers".

Left, right DL player: Edwards, Ward, Autry and Latham could all play this spot IMO. Obviously Edwards should be a sure starter if he is healthy and the rest can battle, rotate for the other spot, possibly with a rookie in the mix too.

NT: Williams, Jelly and Latham can rotate here IMO.

oakdb36 wrote:

In the nickel, we usually put Mack at LE and Irvin at RE. Probably because Mack is more comfortable rushing from that side.
At DT, we use many different combinations depending on the situation.
The pass rushing set is MEJ and Autry/Ward (so last year, it was Ward and Autry almost exclusively).

Autry is playing a lot of snaps because we're rotating our BASE dline. Last year we basically changed it every series. 1st series: Ward - Williams - McGee; 2nd series: Autry - Ellis - Latham... and so on.
And he's playing a lot in the nickel.

I'm not sure the heavy dline rotation will keep going though. When MEJ became a starter in 2015, he was playing around 80% of the snaps. If he's back healthy, i doubt he's coming out of the game very often. Which would mean a lot less snaps for Autry in the base and his main contribution coming on the nickel.

I see this part pretty much the same. Edwards will be on the field a lot if his body can take it, just like he did in 2015. He will be the main interior pass rusher and probably will only come out when he is gassed out.

Autry, Ward should rotate heavily in as pass rushers and Latham as a stability piece. I mean a guy, who can really be strong against the run, but offer some pass rush too. We saw what happened last year with Autry and Ward as a duo inside...they just run at them...

We will see how much Williams and Jelly will play in nickel and dime packages. If Latham and Edwards plays well enough I would expect pretty few snaps for Williams and Jelly.

I can see us adding an interior pass rusher via draft in the middle or later rounds to battle with Autry and Ward. Ward had an underwhelming rookie season, so competition is needed there and Autry is on a 1 year deal, so we should find his replacement ideally.
If he has a good year, he will get offers, so we might let him walk. If he has a down year or a similar to his 2016 campaign we should let him walk. Either way we should have a guy in house to replace him. That could be Branden Jackson, but I would definately to to bring in another guy.

I would expect us to field these units for TC:
EDGE: Mack, Irvin, Calhoun, Cowser, rookie, rookie/A.Smith, Mulumba
L/R DL: Edwards, Ward, Autry, Latham, rookie, Jackson, Bean, Cherry
NT: Williams, Jelly, Latham, rookie

by rookie I mean draft pick or UDFA


Pretty much how I see it tbh. Ward in TC appeared to be the real deal according to reports so i'd be surprised if we take a DT early.

Personally I think our inability to stop the run, in turn caused us problems with the pass. Our pass rush had to respect the run and that will always hinder the pass rush. We need Dan Williams to return to his '15 form and Ellis to be healthy again. Maybe we should go back to those 2 playing more together on early downs to make it more obvious passing downs. That helps the pass rush to tee off.

We seem to have a number of DE/DT type players in Edwards, Ward, Latham, Autry but a vet like Odrick may help. I'd like to get a NT in the later rounds of the draft, DJ Jones/Tu'ikolovatu.


This is one of my favorite targets for the 6-7th round. Could go as high as the 5th though. Would be a good rotational guy for a year or two and then should be able to take over. As soon as I saw him compared to Brandon Williams I started to pay attention even if he was a Trojan. He is definitely a Reggie type player.
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OakleyRaider24


Joined: 11 Jan 2017
Posts: 37
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolni wrote:
This guy suggest a position switch to Sean Smith:
http://cover32.com/2017/03/14/raiders-cb-smith-excel-position-change/

He would move Smith to safety and go CB early in his mock...
http://cover32.com/2017/03/17/2017-raiders-mock3/


I'm not sure, but who knows...SS has the size to play S for sure and there were multiple older CB's, who switched successfully to S later in their carrier.


What would you guys think about a switch like that?

Ive brought this up in the past. I would keep him as an outside corner but rather sit him on a side we play matchups. Look at our schedule this year. The tight ends are elite damn near every other week. I think KJ is great in man coverage but is just too short. He stays on their hip but when the balls in the air just becomes boxed out. SS has the size that wouldn't allow that to happen and wouldn't be as exposed in the hips as he is against small slot guys. Think KC, we get them twice a year, I'd rather have Sean on Travis Kelce than Tyreke Hill. Hopefully with Pagano on board he helps KNJ be more versatile and creative defensively.
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