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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 32014
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LD696 wrote:

I... uh... I actually never thought intelligent people enjoy wrestling. Maybe that's how it precipitates here in Europe, but it seems like the entertainment of the "less-educated" (sorry if I offended anyone). I remember watching a few shows when I was younger, but never really got into it. The concept of mixing theatrics and fake violence was very unusual and got boring really fast tbh.


Not directed at you, but a general observation - a lot of people who hold the "fake violence/theatrics" view (which I get) are also people who enjoy watching movies like Die Hard or 300 or Bruce Lee/Jackie Chan type movies. In movies, the violence is clearly fake, faker than wrestling. And most action movies have some level of theatrics. Yet nobody holds the same stigmas towards action movies. I'm not trying to defend wrestling, as I think people who love it get it and people who don't care for it never will. But I think the correct way to view it is more of a stunt show and less as a competitive sport.

Is wrestling pre-determined in terms of wins and losses? Yeah, obviously. That's been common knowledge since the mid 80's (younger fans probably don't realize that even in the early/mid 80's, many/most people didn't understand that the outcomes were pre-determined). But I think it's unfair to say the violence is fake. These guys destroy their bodies, some of them 200-250 days a year for very little pay, outside of the top 4-5 guys in WWE. Go to enough shows and you can see guys on Saturday with stitches and huge bruises from the Friday show. Especially on the indy circuit where stiffness and violence is the name of the game.

I think people confuse "controlled" or "embellished" violence with "fake" violence. You can't fake the hardcore or ultra-violent stuff but you can do it in as safe a way as possible. You can't fake ridiculously stiff chops to the chest or taking a suplex on the ring apron. Sure, a lot of the moves are done so safely that they don't hurt, but the average 20-30 minute wrestling match has plenty of actual violence.

Jim Cornette, a legendary wrestling mind, said something along the lines of "wrestling has gone from guys pretending to hurt each other and everyone thinking its real to guys actually hurting each other and nobody thinking its real." I think there's a lot of truth to that statement. Wrestling nowadays is more real than its ever been but so many people hold stereotypes and/or can't see beyond the silly pageantry and soap opera aspects of mainstream wrestling (WWE specifically).
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Troy Brown


Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 30580
Location: Newport, Rhode Island
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And beyond that, most rings are just a tad bit better than taking the pillows off your couch and putting them on your coffee table
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 32014
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Troy Brown wrote:


When I was younger and much more into things and things were less accessible, I was under the impression that CZW was a garbage hardcore promotion. I never checked it out, still haven't honestly, but looking at their alum now, it sounds like they've been pretty successful incorporating a lot of different styles. I'm a real big fan of Gulak and from what I can tell, CZW is where he's made his name.


CZW definitely started as a "garbage hardcore promotion" - though I'm a big fan of hardcore wrestling so I didn't see it as garbage. It was originally guys who were too dangerous/lazy/untalented to make it in late 90's post PPV/declining ECW - Ian Rotten, Kronus etc. Then they morphed into a company that did a lot of the hardcore stuff but had a solid undercard, showcasing some of the lesser known Canadian/west coast/European guys that people didn't really get to see. Eventually, as the hardcore wrestling trend died out, CZW started to lose a lot of its fans and a lot of its best hardcore workers started retiring because they were too riddled with injuries. Or they went to Japan where deathmatch wrestling is safer and more highly regarded (not to mention much more highly compensated).

When DJ Hyde bought the company from Zandig in 2009, he really changed the brand and cut down the hardcore stuff to 1 or 2 matches per night, except on their special shows like Tournament of Death. Then he started booking a lot of the best northeast indy guys - the ones ROH hadn't locked up in exclusivity contracts. Lastly, he built his own dojo to train the new guard of CZW wrestlers and brought in some of the best trainers like Stevie Richards, Al Snow etc to show his new generation how to work matches and not have to rely on getting smashed in the face with barbed wire boards all the time. Where companies like IWA MidSouth, Jersey All Pro and Dragon Gate USA have all failed to maintain financial viability, CZW has established itself as a solid, small, niche product that closely resembles the style of later 90's ECW. I'm hopeful that Beyond, which uses a lot of the same roster, can turn into "CZW North" and maintain a long-running and stable presence.

Their in-ring product while very good, clearly isn't as good as DGUSA was or PWG or ROH is but it's cheap, accessible and a bit more diverse in terms of what you see from show to show.


Quote:

That's not to say I dislike Gargano, just prefer them by themselves. Also, I came away loving Joey Ryan, too.


Joey Ryan had some really awesome matches in PWG, including a great (albeit hardcore) tag match with Candace LeRae vs. the Young Bucks. If you want to check out more Joey Ryan, pick up PWG Sells Out (I think volume 1 is out of print, but volumes 2 and 3 are probably the best $20 an indy wrestling can can spend).
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Troy Brown


Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 30580
Location: Newport, Rhode Island
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just looking around RFVideo yesterday. I'll check some out.

That Candice LaRae match is where she gets the superkick with the tacks on the boot, right?

Also, do you prefer hardcore to the technical/puroresu style?

It sounds like Beyond is stabilizing itself. All articles I've read is how it's one of the hottest promotions running right now, which is believable, given the names that have come through. I'll be honest, I know Providence has a big art scene and maybe a once bigger hardcore scene, but I'm not a fan of the set up with people around the ring. If you're 6'3, you have no chance of seeing much. But I almost imagine that's gotta be a result of fete being the most accessible venue for them
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LD696


Joined: 20 Nov 2014
Posts: 348
Location: Ostmitteleuropa
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
LD696 wrote:

I... uh... I actually never thought intelligent people enjoy wrestling. Maybe that's how it precipitates here in Europe, but it seems like the entertainment of the "less-educated" (sorry if I offended anyone). I remember watching a few shows when I was younger, but never really got into it. The concept of mixing theatrics and fake violence was very unusual and got boring really fast tbh.


Not directed at you, but a general observation - a lot of people who hold the "fake violence/theatrics" view (which I get) are also people who enjoy watching movies like Die Hard or 300 or Bruce Lee/Jackie Chan type movies. In movies, the violence is clearly fake, faker than wrestling. And most action movies have some level of theatrics. Yet nobody holds the same stigmas towards action movies. I'm not trying to defend wrestling, as I think people who love it get it and people who don't care for it never will. But I think the correct way to view it is more of a stunt show and less as a competitive sport.

Is wrestling pre-determined in terms of wins and losses? Yeah, obviously. That's been common knowledge since the mid 80's (younger fans probably don't realize that even in the early/mid 80's, many/most people didn't understand that the outcomes were pre-determined). But I think it's unfair to say the violence is fake. These guys destroy their bodies, some of them 200-250 days a year for very little pay, outside of the top 4-5 guys in WWE. Go to enough shows and you can see guys on Saturday with stitches and huge bruises from the Friday show. Especially on the indy circuit where stiffness and violence is the name of the game.

I think people confuse "controlled" or "embellished" violence with "fake" violence. You can't fake the hardcore or ultra-violent stuff but you can do it in as safe a way as possible. You can't fake ridiculously stiff chops to the chest or taking a suplex on the ring apron. Sure, a lot of the moves are done so safely that they don't hurt, but the average 20-30 minute wrestling match has plenty of actual violence.

Jim Cornette, a legendary wrestling mind, said something along the lines of "wrestling has gone from guys pretending to hurt each other and everyone thinking its real to guys actually hurting each other and nobody thinking its real." I think there's a lot of truth to that statement. Wrestling nowadays is more real than its ever been but so many people hold stereotypes and/or can't see beyond the silly pageantry and soap opera aspects of mainstream wrestling (WWE specifically).

Yeah, that's interesting. Maybe when watching a movie one expects seeing retardedly fake violence, while sitting down to watch a wrestling show I expected something more real. The shows I've seen in the mid-late 90's were WWE matches, maybe that's why the "fake violence soap opera" stereotype stuck. At that time I also practiced martial arts, where the competitions included full contact kumite, so I was always like, "That guy shouldn't have been able to get up after that hit.". So maybe these first experiences soured it for me.
I read an article about wrestling a few months ago and that Cornette quote sums it up pretty well. Too bad I'm not enjoying violence as much anymore, so I'll just stick with Greco-Roman Very Happy
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Starless


Joined: 05 Jan 2015
Posts: 11117
Location: Ant-Baby Machete Squad
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris Mortensen says his cancer is in remission, which means we get to go back to hating his guts.
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NinjaZX6R


Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 9804
Location: Columbus, Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://audioboom.com/boos/4993686-locked-on-patriots-aug-31-2016-an-untold-story-about-brandon-browner-and-darrelle-revis-and-a-breakdown-of-the-pats-cornerbacks

2 min mark.

Brandon Browner punched Revis in the face, during the regular season.
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PatriotsWin!


Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 21249
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sean Payton is a cool dude.
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Mack on the sig
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Starless


Joined: 05 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Starless


Joined: 05 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be fine with the Red Sox forfeiting their 2004 championship if it meant all evidence of Curt Schilling's existence were erased.
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Starless


Joined: 05 Jan 2015
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Location: Ant-Baby Machete Squad
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I found out yesterday that my neighborhood is actually called "Felchville"

I'm not sure what to do with this information.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 32014
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starless wrote:
So I found out yesterday that my neighborhood is actually called "Felchville"

I'm not sure what to do with this information.


When in Rome do as the Romans so when in Felchville...
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VTPatsFan


Joined: 23 Apr 2010
Posts: 2335
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Starless wrote:
So I found out yesterday that my neighborhood is actually called "Felchville"

I'm not sure what to do with this information.


When in Rome do as the Romans so when in Felchville...


Stock up on mouthwash and dental dams?
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Starless


Joined: 05 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do people keep forgetting that Mike Ditka is a complete idiot?
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Starless


Joined: 05 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone ever written about how Belichick's background in economics (he earned a degree in it from Wesleyan) has informed his decisions vis-a-vis managing the Patriots? I expect it would be a fascinating read.
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