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Week 1 GDT Browns at Steelers! Let the games begin
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If you could have dinner with one person living or dead who would you choose?
A living person
15%
 15%  [ 4 ]
A dead person
38%
 38%  [ 10 ]
Hornby
23%
 23%  [ 6 ]
horny
11%
 11%  [ 3 ]
EZ Luv
11%
 11%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 26

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mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 45114
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
bulldog wrote:
We'd be far worse with Manziel in the game.

Can't throw the ball. Collapses under non pressure. Missed the broad side of a barn last week.

But let's continue to hope Hoyer fails to see a guys who can throw pretend to play QB.

Those throws to Dray and Burleson looked pretty damn good. So did the one to Barnidge.

And the kid can make plays with his feet.

hoyer can't seem to do anything against first teAm defenses.

I don't hope he sucks, but I think he will


I won't take those away from him. The pass to barnidge and Dray were perfect. The one to Burleson was unnecessary but he held the ball forever. He had an open guy for a first down (Benji I think) wide left but panicked and ran.

Johnny has had FAR more bad than good this preseason. And most people say he can do things with his legs. That's great, but he needs to be a QB first.

PFF ranked johnny to having to third WORST passing grade of every qb this preseason. He's been awful as a QB.

This is not me supporting Hoyer, but johnny is not ready to play in the NFL.


whos to say that getting yards with your legs isnt what a QB can do in 2014? why do we discriminate against rushing yards by a QB? They are real yards with real impact- often big back breakers on 3rd downs. We should know as Ben Roethlisberger usually does it to us.

This is you supporting Hoyer. Johnny Manziel isn't as ready as he could be- sure. He's still a better option than Brian "I'm a bum" Hoyer
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bulldog


Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 5839
Location: Salem
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being able to extend a play is great when nothing is there. Johnny has done it bc he has failed to execute the first open read.

QB= throwing the ball. Johnny looked absolutely terrible against 2nd and 3rd stringers.

Hoyer has gotten better through 4 preseason games. Manziel has actually gotten worse.

Each have had their share of bad and good throws. But Hoyer has had far less bad and has actually played like a QB instead of running around unnecessarily and hoping someone gets open.
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bulldog


Joined: 18 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:
bulldog wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
bulldog wrote:
We'd be far worse with Manziel in the game.

Can't throw the ball. Collapses under non pressure. Missed the broad side of a barn last week.

But let's continue to hope Hoyer fails to see a guys who can throw pretend to play QB.

Those throws to Dray and Burleson looked pretty damn good. So did the one to Barnidge.

And the kid can make plays with his feet.

hoyer can't seem to do anything against first teAm defenses.

I don't hope he sucks, but I think he will


I won't take those away from him. The pass to barnidge and Dray were perfect. The one to Burleson was unnecessary but he held the ball forever. He had an open guy for a first down (Benji I think) wide left but panicked and ran.

Johnny has had FAR more bad than good this preseason. And most people say he can do things with his legs. That's great, but he needs to be a QB first.

PFF ranked johnny to having to third WORST passing grade of every qb this preseason. He's been awful as a QB.

This is not me supporting Hoyer, but johnny is not ready to play in the NFL.


whos to say that getting yards with your legs isnt what a QB can do in 2014? why do we discriminate against rushing yards by a QB? They are real yards with real impact- often big back breakers on 3rd downs. We should know as Ben Roethlisberger usually does it to us.

This is you supporting Hoyer. Johnny Manziel isn't as ready as he could be- sure. He's still a better option than Brian "I'm a bum" Hoyer


I have nothing against mobility. Russell Wilson made it to the super bowl by throwing the ball and running when necessary.

Big Ben throws the ball and runs when necessary.

Brady and Manning have been to more Superb owls than anyone in the modern era, and don't ever run. Though they are HOFers.

Rogers throws the ball and runs when necessary.

Manziel runs bc he doesn't see the open guy. Bc there is ghost pressure. Bc his intentions are to run.

Even the HC has said Johnny needs to throw and not run so much.

Again, Johnny has flashed this preseason. But he has far away been worse at throwing the football.
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Bonanza23


Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 7318
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
bulldog wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:
bulldog wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:
bulldog wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
bulldog wrote:
We'd be far worse with Manziel in the game.

Can't throw the ball. Collapses under non pressure. Missed the broad side of a barn last week.

But let's continue to hope Hoyer fails to see a guys who can throw pretend to play QB.


I don't follow. Verbiage in that last sentence was strange.

We'll see I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I just have no faith in Hoyer to do anything except disappoint. Not hoping he'll fail, just expecting based on empirical evidence. We have seen his best, and it's barely average.


And he doesn't step into throws because he doesn't trust the knee. His throws are going to sail which will lead to TOs

I expect a statline similar to this from Hoyer
4 comp
10 attempts
34 yards
1 Int


And johnny will throw severely under thrown ducks that will get picked.

That stat line is a joke.


Just like Hoyer starting is a joke


He's the browns best option. Deal with it.


No he isn't. He is Pettine's option. Like I said before Pettine would rather go 0-16 with Hoyer than to start a rookie QB.


Lol

Except every statline, throw, read, says otherwise.

Hoyer has far and away out performed johnny in accuracy(including drops throw aways and spikes) and while under pressure

The only thing johnny has done better is scramble.

Your entitled to your opinion, but every fact says your wrong. And by a large margin.


*You're.

Your wrong = A wrong you own

You're wrong = You are wrong

I think you're wrong for framing your opinion of these QBs based on preseason statistics/play.

You're also wrong in dismissing Manziel's ability to keep drives going and score, which is the area that he outplays Hoyer most. That ability just so happens to be the essence of the position.

I am not by any means saying that Manziel is "ready" to play, but nobody was saying that about Big Ben his rookie year either.

All I'm saying is you never know until they get their shot. Week 1 might be early, but it's inevitable.

On a long enough timeline, Hoyer is the backup.


You're move bulldog.










Sorry just couldn't help myself. Embarassed
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Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Posts: 5597
Location: WV
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you are (avoided the whole your/you're issue) giving Hoyer too much credit bulldog. I think some of us aren't giving Hoyer enough credit. He is probably a slightly below average starting QB. Not what we want, but I don't think he will be terrible.

Manziel clearly has more upside and can make plays (running or passing) with his feet. He missed an open guy and took off anmd created another open guy. No issue there. If Hoyer misses an open guy he will probably get sacked or throw it away. Even great QB's sometimes miss the open guy, Rothlisberger has done it plenty over his career but he keeps the play alive and another option presents itself.
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mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 45114
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
bulldog wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
bulldog wrote:
We'd be far worse with Manziel in the game.

Can't throw the ball. Collapses under non pressure. Missed the broad side of a barn last week.

But let's continue to hope Hoyer fails to see a guys who can throw pretend to play QB.

Those throws to Dray and Burleson looked pretty damn good. So did the one to Barnidge.

And the kid can make plays with his feet.

hoyer can't seem to do anything against first teAm defenses.

I don't hope he sucks, but I think he will


I won't take those away from him. The pass to barnidge and Dray were perfect. The one to Burleson was unnecessary but he held the ball forever. He had an open guy for a first down (Benji I think) wide left but panicked and ran.

Johnny has had FAR more bad than good this preseason. And most people say he can do things with his legs. That's great, but he needs to be a QB first.

PFF ranked johnny to having to third WORST passing grade of every qb this preseason. He's been awful as a QB.

This is not me supporting Hoyer, but johnny is not ready to play in the NFL.


whos to say that getting yards with your legs isnt what a QB can do in 2014? why do we discriminate against rushing yards by a QB? They are real yards with real impact- often big back breakers on 3rd downs. We should know as Ben Roethlisberger usually does it to us.

This is you supporting Hoyer. Johnny Manziel isn't as ready as he could be- sure. He's still a better option than Brian "I'm a bum" Hoyer


I have nothing against mobility. Russell Wilson made it to the super bowl by throwing the ball and running when necessary.

Big Ben throws the ball and runs when necessary.

Brady and Manning have been to more Superb owls than anyone in the modern era, and don't ever run. Though they are HOFers.

Rogers throws the ball and runs when necessary.

Manziel runs bc he doesn't see the open guy. Bc there is ghost pressure. Bc his intentions are to run.

Even the HC has said Johnny needs to throw and not run so much.

Again, Johnny has flashed this preseason. But he has far away been worse at throwing the football.


Lol far and and away worse? Brian hoyer "freaked out" because his tight end was so open. His throws were no better than manziel. He moved the ball less against the first team in game 2.

Flacco and roethlisberger weren't ready to start their rookie year but with a pared down play book and 100 percent of the 1st team snaps they lead their team to the playoffs. Flaccid didn't exactly have stars at Wr either. Brian hoyer is a bum. He will be exposed. Johnny manziel is exciting and his flaws are correctable with experience.

Brian hoyer is a player that everything needs to be perfect for. Johnny manziel can make magic happen.
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davdukes4


Joined: 05 May 2014
Posts: 819
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
Being able to extend a play is great when nothing is there. Johnny has done it bc he has failed to execute the first open read.

QB= throwing the ball. Johnny looked absolutely terrible against 2nd and 3rd stringers.

Hoyer has gotten better through 4 preseason games. Manziel has actually gotten worse.

Each have had their share of bad and good throws. But Hoyer has had far less bad and has actually played like a QB instead of running around unnecessarily and hoping someone gets open.


Johnny was playing with Canadian league level talent around him this pre-season...and that is borderline offensive to the CFL.

Sorry to have to be the one to break it to you, but Johnny is going to end up in the Hall of Fame. Book it!
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bulldog


Joined: 18 Nov 2008
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Location: Salem
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
I think you are (avoided the whole your/you're issue) giving Hoyer too much credit bulldog. I think some of us aren't giving Hoyer enough credit. He is probably a slightly below average starting QB. Not what we want, but I don't think he will be terrible.

Manziel clearly has more upside and can make plays (running or passing) with his feet. He missed an open guy and took off anmd created another open guy. No issue there. If Hoyer misses an open guy he will probably get sacked or throw it away. Even great QB's sometimes miss the open guy, Rothlisberger has done it plenty over his career but he keeps the play alive and another option presents itself.


I can agree with this. I do support Hoyer, but even I can admit he's been underwhelming this preaseason.

My biggest deal is really that Johnny has been far more underwhelming as far as his quarterbacking skills go, but so many on this board have ignored it due to a few (see few) exciting plays.

It was a QB battle and the decision has been a group effort to decide who was the best right now. The collective agreement of the coaching staff is that Hoyer is better. Although BooyaCS will think it's purely Pettine's decision. A lot of people who do this for a living think differently than most on here.
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bulldog


Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 5839
Location: Salem
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

davdukes4 wrote:
bulldog wrote:
Being able to extend a play is great when nothing is there. Johnny has done it bc he has failed to execute the first open read.

QB= throwing the ball. Johnny looked absolutely terrible against 2nd and 3rd stringers.

Hoyer has gotten better through 4 preseason games. Manziel has actually gotten worse.

Each have had their share of bad and good throws. But Hoyer has had far less bad and has actually played like a QB instead of running around unnecessarily and hoping someone gets open.


Johnny was playing with Canadian league level talent around him this pre-season...and that is borderline offensive to the CFL.

Sorry to have to be the one to break it to you, but Johnny is going to end up in the Hall of Fame. Book it!


He was also playing against those CFL players. And threw ducks.

I hope he ends up in the HOF. As a browns fan, I want nothing more than a bunch of winning seasons.
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BooyaCS


Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 7518
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
I think you are (avoided the whole your/you're issue) giving Hoyer too much credit bulldog. I think some of us aren't giving Hoyer enough credit. He is probably a slightly below average starting QB. Not what we want, but I don't think he will be terrible.

Manziel clearly has more upside and can make plays (running or passing) with his feet. He missed an open guy and took off anmd created another open guy. No issue there. If Hoyer misses an open guy he will probably get sacked or throw it away. Even great QB's sometimes miss the open guy, Rothlisberger has done it plenty over his career but he keeps the play alive and another option presents itself.


I can agree with this. I do support Hoyer, but even I can admit he's been underwhelming this preaseason.

My biggest deal is really that Johnny has been far more underwhelming as far as his quarterbacking skills go, but so many on this board have ignored it due to a few (see few) exciting plays.

It was a QB battle and the decision has been a group effort to decide who was the best right now. The collective agreement of the coaching staff is that Hoyer is better. Although BooyaCS will think it's purely Pettine's decision. A lot of people who do this for a living think differently than most on here.


Don't fool yourself there was no QB competition. Hoyer got 75% of all first team reps in Practice and in games. If it was a QB competition then Hoyer starts a game an Manziel starts a game. It was never a QB Competition.
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bruceb


Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 6905
Location: Rocky River, OH
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:
bulldog wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
bulldog wrote:
We'd be far worse with Manziel in the game.

Can't throw the ball. Collapses under non pressure. Missed the broad side of a barn last week.

But let's continue to hope Hoyer fails to see a guys who can throw pretend to play QB.

Those throws to Dray and Burleson looked pretty damn good. So did the one to Barnidge.

And the kid can make plays with his feet.

hoyer can't seem to do anything against first teAm defenses.

I don't hope he sucks, but I think he will


I won't take those away from him. The pass to barnidge and Dray were perfect. The one to Burleson was unnecessary but he held the ball forever. He had an open guy for a first down (Benji I think) wide left but panicked and ran.

Johnny has had FAR more bad than good this preseason. And most people say he can do things with his legs. That's great, but he needs to be a QB first.

PFF ranked johnny to having to third WORST passing grade of every qb this preseason. He's been awful as a QB.

This is not me supporting Hoyer, but johnny is not ready to play in the NFL.


whos to say that getting yards with your legs isnt what a QB can do in 2014? why do we discriminate against rushing yards by a QB? They are real yards with real impact- often big back breakers on 3rd downs. We should know as Ben Roethlisberger usually does it to us.

This is you supporting Hoyer. Johnny Manziel isn't as ready as he could be- sure. He's still a better option than Brian "I'm a bum" Hoyer


Being able to throw the ball well/successfully is the ante for a QB.

If being able to run were as important, Tebow would still be in the league.

Manziel has added some energy to the game when he is in, and seemingly only when on the run to his right.

When he can consistently deliver balls on target working through progressions I will be glad to have him on the field.

Until then, I wish Hoyer well and hope Manziel sits for a while.
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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demanding Manziel to work through progressions before seeing the field?

Then hold Hoyer to the same standard. Rarely did I see him come off his primary read, and quite often stared his man down from the snap.
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looks like Ditch's infinite wisdom is correct again.
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fatpig


Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

some are touting Hoyer while others are dismissing him BEFORE the first regular season snap

Hoyer's the starter on Sunday. the decision has been made, get over it. let's all stop hating and wish the man well. IF he sucks then Manziel comes in and we wish him well.

i just want the Browns to beat the damn steelers for once. don't care who does it. WOOF
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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
Being able to extend a play is great when nothing is there. Johnny has done it bc he has failed to execute the first open read.

QB= throwing the ball. Johnny looked absolutely terrible against 2nd and 3rd stringers.

Hoyer has gotten better through 4 preseason games. Manziel has actually gotten worse.

Each have had their share of bad and good throws. But Hoyer has had far less bad and has actually played like a QB instead of running around unnecessarily and hoping someone gets open.


We must have watched a different set of preseason games.
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BwickBrownie wrote:
looks like Ditch's infinite wisdom is correct again.
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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fatpig wrote:
some are touting Hoyer while others are dismissing him BEFORE the first regular season snap

Hoyer's the starter on Sunday. the decision has been made, get over it. let's all stop hating and wish the man well. IF he sucks then Manziel comes in and we wish him well.

i just want the Browns to beat the damn steelers for once. don't care who does it. WOOF


Fair enough.

I'm just happy that spirited discussion about actual football-related stuff is back.
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looks like Ditch's infinite wisdom is correct again.
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