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H2ThaIzzo


Joined: 15 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
bruceb wrote:
What I do not get is how Farmer has been so good at identifying and getting players at certain positions and fortified units (e.g. RB) and yet seemingly has had a blind spot/no plan/no rabbits to pull out the hat at WR?


Why act like Farmer has known all along what is going to happen with Gordon? Has he known he failed a test and the result could be a one year ban? probably, but he also wasn't allowed to inform the rest of the coaching staff about that information either.

And if you look at the recent years for the Shanahan's offenses, there has been a #1 guy, then a bunch of somebodies. Which is exactly what the Browns have right now, but the #1 guy isn't available right now.


I'm still miffed at us not drafting a WR at all. Even if Gordon wasn't done for the year I think we needed another option opposite him.

Having said that though, man we did some solid things this year. It looks like it will be another losing year for us, but we got arguably the best corner in the draft, great value with our future QB late in the first, A stud franchise guard, Kirksey who looks like a natural out there, etc. We also set our franchise up with getting another first from Buffalo, and a plethora of our own picks for next year.
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bulldog


Joined: 18 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

H2ThaIzzo wrote:
bulldog wrote:
bruceb wrote:
What I do not get is how Farmer has been so good at identifying and getting players at certain positions and fortified units (e.g. RB) and yet seemingly has had a blind spot/no plan/no rabbits to pull out the hat at WR?


Why act like Farmer has known all along what is going to happen with Gordon? Has he known he failed a test and the result could be a one year ban? probably, but he also wasn't allowed to inform the rest of the coaching staff about that information either.

And if you look at the recent years for the Shanahan's offenses, there has been a #1 guy, then a bunch of somebodies. Which is exactly what the Browns have right now, but the #1 guy isn't available right now.


I'm still miffed at us not drafting a WR at all. Even if Gordon wasn't done for the year I think we needed another option opposite him.

Having said that though, man we did some solid things this year. It looks like it will be another losing year for us, but we got arguably the best corner in the draft, great value with our future QB late in the first, A stud franchise guard, Kirksey who looks like a natural out there, etc. We also set our franchise up with getting another first from Buffalo, and a plethora of our own picks for next year.


I respect Farmer for sticking to his guns and drafting the best guy on the board.
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hornbybrown


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:
bulldog wrote:
bruceb wrote:
What I do not get is how Farmer has been so good at identifying and getting players at certain positions and fortified units (e.g. RB) and yet seemingly has had a blind spot/no plan/no rabbits to pull out the hat at WR?


Why act like Farmer has known all along what is going to happen with Gordon? Has he known he failed a test and the result could be a one year ban? probably, but he also wasn't allowed to inform the rest of the coaching staff about that information either.

And if you look at the recent years for the Shanahan's offenses, there has been a #1 guy, then a bunch of somebodies. Which is exactly what the Browns have right now, but the #1 guy isn't available right now.


I'm still miffed at us not drafting a WR at all. Even if Gordon wasn't done for the year I think we needed another option opposite him.

Having said that though, man we did some solid things this year. It looks like it will be another losing year for us, but we got arguably the best corner in the draft, great value with our future QB late in the first, A stud franchise guard, Kirksey who looks like a natural out there, etc. We also set our franchise up with getting another first from Buffalo, and a plethora of our own picks for next year.


I respect Farmer for sticking to his guns and drafting the best guy on the board.


As do I. For years we complained about drafting for need over BPA, now we finals do it and half the forum are still complaining
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Browns1987


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always like to draft BPA unless its not a need at all.
I guess it will depend on how Gilbert and Manziel pan out, because Bitonio and Kirksey will be studs.
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Thomas5737


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eh, need is always part of BPA. I doubt any draft board is made without taking into consideration what their specific team needs are.

What I think you guys are really saying is that you don't think a team should overdraft solely for need. That is likely true. Assuming you are right in your evaluations anyway.
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bruceb


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
bruceb wrote:
What I do not get is how Farmer has been so good at identifying and getting players at certain positions and fortified units (e.g. RB) and yet seemingly has had a blind spot/no plan/no rabbits to pull out the hat at WR?


Austin. Hawkins. Gabriel. Byrd.

Over half the WR corps weren't on the team last year.

Not sure what you're getting at.


Super solution at RB.

Almost no solution at all to WR.
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bruceb


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
bruceb wrote:
What I do not get is how Farmer has been so good at identifying and getting players at certain positions and fortified units (e.g. RB) and yet seemingly has had a blind spot/no plan/no rabbits to pull out the hat at WR?


Why act like Farmer has known all along what is going to happen with Gordon? Has he known he failed a test and the result could be a one year ban? probably, but he also wasn't allowed to inform the rest of the coaching staff about that information either.

And if you look at the recent years for the Shanahan's offenses, there has been a #1 guy, then a bunch of somebodies. Which is exactly what the Browns have right now, but the #1 guy isn't available right now.


What are you talking about?

This portion of the thread has absoultely nothing to do with Gordon.

Farmer should have factored Gordon the moment the news first broke and crafted a Plan B.
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Thomas5737


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruceb wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
bruceb wrote:
What I do not get is how Farmer has been so good at identifying and getting players at certain positions and fortified units (e.g. RB) and yet seemingly has had a blind spot/no plan/no rabbits to pull out the hat at WR?


Austin. Hawkins. Gabriel. Byrd.

Over half the WR corps weren't on the team last year.

Not sure what you're getting at.


Super solution at RB.

Almost no solution at all to WR.


Well to be fair there wasn't a whole lot to choose from outside of the draft. If they didn't like Watkins at 4 I don't blame them for the trade. I personally would have grabbed Jordan Matthews over Kirksey but I may have been wrong to do that seeing how he has played. I think we tried to do the best we could except for the draft, we had other plans and stuck to them. As long as they hit on the players I won't complain. If they miss on them however....
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bruceb


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
Eh, need is always part of BPA. I doubt any draft board is made without taking into consideration what their specific team needs are.

What I think you guys are really saying is that you don't think a team should overdraft solely for need. That is likely true. Assuming you are right in your evaluations anyway.


Need didn't influence Farmer's deicisions, which is good.

I thinnk that is what everyone is saying.
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hornbybrown


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruceb wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
Eh, need is always part of BPA. I doubt any draft board is made without taking into consideration what their specific team needs are.

What I think you guys are really saying is that you don't think a team should overdraft solely for need. That is likely true. Assuming you are right in your evaluations anyway.


Need didn't influence Farmer's deicisions, which is good.

I thinnk that is what everyone is saying.


Also we don't know that he hasn't tried to upgrade the WR core more. He might of tried to trade for guys but asking price was to high. He might of looked at free agents but they went somewhere else
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cattleman78


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My take on need vs. b.p.a. is this. And I'll use off. tackle vs. w.r.

You have to look at circumstances. W.R. right now is most likely our biggest. O.T. most think is a need [Schwartz].

You have to look at both positions first. Has Gordon stayed clean? Even if he has we should certainly not trust him completely.

At the tackle position Big Joe will be entering his ninth season next year. It would probably be wise to get a good tackle that can eventually move to the left side.

Than you have to look at whether you think you can get a tackle in the second round that can play left tackle eventually. Same with w.r. In other words what is the depth of both positions in the draft.

Than last but most important is where you rank them on your board. If the w.r. is ranked higher you go with him because it is your biggest need.
Say you have the tackle rated at 9.1 and the receiver at 8.9 on a scale of 0-10 you should probably still go receiver. But if the receiver is rated at 8.5 go with the tackle.

Now maybe you have another position like a pass rusher rated at 9.6 go with the pass rusher and try hard to fill the receiver and tackle position another way.

Just my thoughts. There are other things you have to look at also like characther etc.
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bulldog


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruceb wrote:
bulldog wrote:
bruceb wrote:
What I do not get is how Farmer has been so good at identifying and getting players at certain positions and fortified units (e.g. RB) and yet seemingly has had a blind spot/no plan/no rabbits to pull out the hat at WR?


Why act like Farmer has known all along what is going to happen with Gordon? Has he known he failed a test and the result could be a one year ban? probably, but he also wasn't allowed to inform the rest of the coaching staff about that information either.

And if you look at the recent years for the Shanahan's offenses, there has been a #1 guy, then a bunch of somebodies. Which is exactly what the Browns have right now, but the #1 guy isn't available right now.


What are you talking about?

This portion of the thread has absoultely nothing to do with Gordon.

Farmer should have factored Gordon the moment the news first broke and crafted a Plan B.


And abandon several months of planning and research? That would be a poor way to run a business.
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bulldog


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hornbybrown wrote:
bruceb wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
Eh, need is always part of BPA. I doubt any draft board is made without taking into consideration what their specific team needs are.

What I think you guys are really saying is that you don't think a team should overdraft solely for need. That is likely true. Assuming you are right in your evaluations anyway.


Need didn't influence Farmer's deicisions, which is good.

I thinnk that is what everyone is saying.


Also we don't know that he hasn't tried to upgrade the WR core more. He might of tried to trade for guys but asking price was to high. He might of looked at free agents but they went somewhere else


They were working on a trade up for odell Beckham during the draft.
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish we could have pulled out a WR as well, but Im not going to lose my stuff over it till I see what happens with the guys who were drafted.

Outside of Sammy Watkins there wasn't really a sure fire WR where we were picking- and we got Buffalo's first for a guy who may not play week 1
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candyman93


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:

Outside of Sammy Watkins there wasn't really a sure fire WR where we were picking-


Depends on how you felt about Mike Evans
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