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BwickBrownie


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 1551
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

poorbytehshore wrote:
Pettine says the starters will play the first quarter against the Bears but dont expect to see Manziel into the 2nd half, as he supposedly wants to see what Grossman and Shaw have.

Call it a conspiracy theory but sounds to me like someone is worried about Hoyer stinking it up again and being outplayed by Johnny Backup.


It's not that typical for starters to play at all in the 4th game, let alone a quarter. If the conspiracy you mentioned were true, they wouldn't start Hoyer at all because they would have a built in excuse.
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PAUL KRUGER stats: 39 combined tackles (28 individual), 9 sacks, 1 career revived by Mike Pettine.
TRAVIS BENJAMIN stats: 16 receptions for 296 yards. 3 Touchdowns. "The rabbit is out of his hole"
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poorbytehshore


Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 2801
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BwickBrownie wrote:
poorbytehshore wrote:
Pettine says the starters will play the first quarter against the Bears but dont expect to see Manziel into the 2nd half, as he supposedly wants to see what Grossman and Shaw have.

Call it a conspiracy theory but sounds to me like someone is worried about Hoyer stinking it up again and being outplayed by Johnny Backup.


It's not that typical for starters to play at all in the 4th game, let alone a quarter. If the conspiracy you mentioned were true, they wouldn't start Hoyer at all because they would have a built in excuse.


I guess so but wouldn't that be potentially even worse? Hoyer has had an awful preseason so far and if he didn't play at all in the final game and Johnny came out with the start and lit it up... instant controversy.

Seems to me like the layout of this game is give Hoyer the first quarter, chuck Johnny in for the 2nd only (not enough time to show out and above everyone else) and then give the second half to Grossman and Shaw.

Surely Manziel needs all the live reps he can get at the moment. They will be limited in practice from now on and yet Pettine still feels the need 'to see what he has in Grossman and Shaw'. How about seeing what you have in your first round pick!
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BwickBrownie


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 1551
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

poorbytehshore wrote:
BwickBrownie wrote:
poorbytehshore wrote:
Pettine says the starters will play the first quarter against the Bears but dont expect to see Manziel into the 2nd half, as he supposedly wants to see what Grossman and Shaw have.

Call it a conspiracy theory but sounds to me like someone is worried about Hoyer stinking it up again and being outplayed by Johnny Backup.


It's not that typical for starters to play at all in the 4th game, let alone a quarter. If the conspiracy you mentioned were true, they wouldn't start Hoyer at all because they would have a built in excuse.


I guess so but wouldn't that be potentially even worse? Hoyer has had an awful preseason so far and if he didn't play at all in the final game and Johnny came out with the start and lit it up... instant controversy.

Seems to me like the layout of this game is give Hoyer the first quarter, chuck Johnny in for the 2nd only (not enough time to show out and above everyone else) and then give the second half to Grossman and Shaw.

Surely Manziel needs all the live reps he can get at the moment. They will be limited in practice from now on and yet Pettine still feels the need 'to see what he has in Grossman and Shaw'. How about seeing what you have in your first round pick!


I remember last year when Chud sat all his starters and people were up in arms because they said the 1s needed more time to learn and get cohesive as a unit. I think it's the right call to have them play a few series to a quarter at most. That being said, it might be nice to have Manziel play into the third... get him the experience of playing into and out of the half. I just don't think I'm too troubled overall by playing Rex and Shaw the majority of the 2nd half... if they need to use this time to decide who to cut, then I take Pettine at face value there.
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'14 ADOPT A BROWN(S)
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TeHDruiD


Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Posts: 7069
Location: Canton, OH
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The starting offense can use all of the work they can get, because they still aren't on the same page and passing the ball isn't something they can do right now. I don't want to see anyone who has a role in our starting defense (including subpackages) on the field though especially after watching the Rams drop like flies Saturday night
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DaWg_LB.


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 4804
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:
chuck lidell put away a bunch of people, lets not discount kenpo


Never discounting or disrespecting Kempo at all.....but Chuck Lidell's MAIN arts are Boxing/American Kicking boxing and Greco roman wrestling (roots of his famous Take Down defense) developed when he was a DI wrestler.......but his other two "main arts" are Koei-Kan Karate and BRAZILIAN JIU JITSU (When he started competing in MMA).....Kempo is WAY down on the list of arts credited to his development and success.....

Secondarily...how many MMA champions (former or current) can you name that have Kempo as their primary or secondary style? I know about 15 off the top of my head who's Primary or Secondary style is BJJ....just saying...
I spent about 2 of my 7 1/2 hears studying martial arts attempting to break into competitive fighting......Lidell was one of my favorite fighters to study, because of his take down defense.....best in the business...

A poor analogy was used, as there are enough different opinions, levels of understanding and points of view based on individual experiences on it to start an entirely different discussion....
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mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 45823
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaWg_LB. wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
chuck lidell put away a bunch of people, lets not discount kenpo


Never discounting or disrespecting Kempo at all.....but Chuck Lidell's MAIN arts are Boxing/American Kicking boxing and Greco roman wrestling (roots of his famous Take Down defense) developed when he was a DI wrestler.......but his other two "main arts" are Koei-Kan Karate and BRAZILIAN JIU JITSU (When he started competing in MMA).....Kempo is WAY down on the list of arts credited to his development and success.....

Secondarily...how many MMA champions (former or current) can you name that have Kempo as their primary or secondary style? I know about 15 off the top of my head who's Primary or Secondary style is BJJ....just saying...
I spent about 2 of my 7 1/2 hears studying martial arts attempting to break into competitive fighting......Lidell was one of my favorite fighters to study, because of his take down defense.....best in the business...

A poor analogy was used, as there are enough different opinions, levels of understanding and points of view based on individual experiences on it to start an entirely different discussion....
Back to football?


http://www.worldwidedojo.com/sport-based/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/chuck-liddell.jpg
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BwickBrownie


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 1551
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:
DaWg_LB. wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
chuck lidell put away a bunch of people, lets not discount kenpo


Never discounting or disrespecting Kempo at all.....but Chuck Lidell's MAIN arts are Boxing/American Kicking boxing and Greco roman wrestling (roots of his famous Take Down defense) developed when he was a DI wrestler.......but his other two "main arts" are Koei-Kan Karate and BRAZILIAN JIU JITSU (When he started competing in MMA).....Kempo is WAY down on the list of arts credited to his development and success.....

Secondarily...how many MMA champions (former or current) can you name that have Kempo as their primary or secondary style? I know about 15 off the top of my head who's Primary or Secondary style is BJJ....just saying...
I spent about 2 of my 7 1/2 hears studying martial arts attempting to break into competitive fighting......Lidell was one of my favorite fighters to study, because of his take down defense.....best in the business...

A poor analogy was used, as there are enough different opinions, levels of understanding and points of view based on individual experiences on it to start an entirely different discussion....
Back to football?


http://www.worldwidedojo.com/sport-based/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/chuck-liddell.jpg


Is the argument here that Chuck Lidell should start at QB for the Browns? Sure, I'm on board.
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'14 ADOPT A BROWN(S)
PAUL KRUGER stats: 39 combined tackles (28 individual), 9 sacks, 1 career revived by Mike Pettine.
TRAVIS BENJAMIN stats: 16 receptions for 296 yards. 3 Touchdowns. "The rabbit is out of his hole"
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DaWg_LB.


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 4804
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:
DaWg_LB. wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
chuck lidell put away a bunch of people, lets not discount kenpo


Never discounting or disrespecting Kempo at all.....but Chuck Lidell's MAIN arts are Boxing/American Kicking boxing and Greco roman wrestling (roots of his famous Take Down defense) developed when he was a DI wrestler.......but his other two "main arts" are Koei-Kan Karate and BRAZILIAN JIU JITSU (When he started competing in MMA).....Kempo is WAY down on the list of arts credited to his development and success.....

Secondarily...how many MMA champions (former or current) can you name that have Kempo as their primary or secondary style? I know about 15 off the top of my head who's Primary or Secondary style is BJJ....just saying...
I spent about 2 of my 7 1/2 hears studying martial arts attempting to break into competitive fighting......Lidell was one of my favorite fighters to study, because of his take down defense.....best in the business...

A poor analogy was used, as there are enough different opinions, levels of understanding and points of view based on individual experiences on it to start an entirely different discussion....
Back to football?


http://www.worldwidedojo.com/sport-based/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/chuck-liddell.jpg


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Liddell

When I was competing my styles were listed as BJJ and Muy Thai..the techniques I used to win matches (2-0 total record...I found MMA after I was getting older) Primarily came from those two arts...those were the arts I spent the most time training and perfecting my skill set in....Even though I have trained in Judo, Akido, Traditional Jiu-Jitsu, Wing Chung Kung Fu and Shotokan Karate......

Not disrespecting Kempo...

Now how did we get on Chuck Lidell uses Kempo more vs BJJ more vs Karate more....type of debate? Laughing
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DaWg_LB.


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 4804
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BwickBrownie wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
DaWg_LB. wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
chuck lidell put away a bunch of people, lets not discount kenpo


Never discounting or disrespecting Kempo at all.....but Chuck Lidell's MAIN arts are Boxing/American Kicking boxing and Greco roman wrestling (roots of his famous Take Down defense) developed when he was a DI wrestler.......but his other two "main arts" are Koei-Kan Karate and BRAZILIAN JIU JITSU (When he started competing in MMA).....Kempo is WAY down on the list of arts credited to his development and success.....

Secondarily...how many MMA champions (former or current) can you name that have Kempo as their primary or secondary style? I know about 15 off the top of my head who's Primary or Secondary style is BJJ....just saying...
I spent about 2 of my 7 1/2 hears studying martial arts attempting to break into competitive fighting......Lidell was one of my favorite fighters to study, because of his take down defense.....best in the business...

A poor analogy was used, as there are enough different opinions, levels of understanding and points of view based on individual experiences on it to start an entirely different discussion....
Back to football?


http://www.worldwidedojo.com/sport-based/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/chuck-liddell.jpg


Is the argument here that Chuck Lidell should start at QB for the Browns? Sure, I'm on board.


LOL.....this is why I love this place..... Laughing Laughing Laughing
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duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 8508
Location: Cleveland area
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruceb wrote:


Picking Weeden was a total waste.

Don't think Manziel will be as useless.

Still on the fence as to whether he was a good or bad pick.

His play so far hasn't shown me it's one way or the other.

What it has shown me is he needs time to grow into the NFL game.


Well yeah, picking Weeden was a bad pick no matter what our intentions were.

POint is, you dont spend a 1st rounder on a QB with any thoughts of taking another QB the next year, no matter how bad he plays. Especially a guy so far from being NFL ready as Johnny.
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2014 draft prediction:

Zero chance the Browns draft a QB at pick 4, or trade up for a QB.

And Matt Ryan is so great he has one playoff win.
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duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 8508
Location: Cleveland area
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruceb wrote:
roger murdock wrote:
I dont understand the point of drafting Johhny Manziel and then sitting him long term to try and make him something hes not. If hes ever going to be a decent player, its going to be by running around like a chicken with his head cut off pulling plays out of nowhere like he did in college.


In that case he is never going to be a decent player and we will continue to suck.


Unfortunately, you are both right.
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2014 draft prediction:

Zero chance the Browns draft a QB at pick 4, or trade up for a QB.

And Matt Ryan is so great he has one playoff win.
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hornbybrown


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 16311
Location: 1600 Pennyslvania Ave
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TeHDruiD wrote:
The starting offense can use all of the work they can get, because they still aren't on the same page and passing the ball isn't something they can do right now. I don't want to see anyone who has a role in our starting defense (including subpackages) on the field though especially after watching the Rams drop like flies Saturday night


Agree with this 100%. I would play the starters the whole damn game if it takes that for them to look in synch. But not the D. They had a bad game vs the rams but I think they are a lot better than that
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Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Posts: 6384
Location: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duke2056 wrote:
bruceb wrote:
roger murdock wrote:
I dont understand the point of drafting Johhny Manziel and then sitting him long term to try and make him something hes not. If hes ever going to be a decent player, its going to be by running around like a chicken with his head cut off pulling plays out of nowhere like he did in college.


In that case he is never going to be a decent player and we will continue to suck.


Unfortunately, you are both right.


eh, you're all three wrong
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pscottdai


Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Posts: 507
Location: Okinawa, Japan
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty rough when they are giving every other rookie QB, other than Murray, better pre-season grades than JF.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000383747/article/rookie-qb-stock-watch-blake-bortles-up-johnny-manziel-down

To be honest, about what I expected when we drafted him but since he is now a Brown I sure hope he improves and proves to be a decent QB (I just don't believe he ever will).
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duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 8508
Location: Cleveland area
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am still shocked Hoyer never signed the extension the Browns were offering him.

That is called being a HORRIBLE agent, whoever his agent is. I mean, obviously he is no special talent, coming off an ACL tear, in a new system, with Johnny frickin football just being drafted.

I wonder how many millions he lost cause of that. A few at least I think. Not sure what they offered, but it had to be like 3 million a year for like 3 years or something.

Idiot agent, and idiot Hoyer for not taking it.
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2014 draft prediction:

Zero chance the Browns draft a QB at pick 4, or trade up for a QB.

And Matt Ryan is so great he has one playoff win.
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