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mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 48868
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
“I don’t know,’’ he said, not long before the Browns boarded their charter to return to Cleveland. “Neither guy really distinguished himself tonight, and we’ll have to go back and study the tape and figure out who to go with. I will lean on [offensive coordinator] Kyle Shanahan and [quarterback coach] Dowell Loggains quite a bit, because they’ve watched them every day.’’

I asked: “Do you have a gut feeling right now?”

“I don’t. I don’t,’’ said Pettine

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/08/19/johnny-manziel-brian-hoyer-cleveland-browns-quarterback/

went from sizable lead to... no clue

AND THIS IS THE GUY YOU WANT QBING YOUR TEAM?
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roger murdock


Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 7856
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
roger murdock wrote:
Brees won the next year too.

I agree we should pick someone but I don't know if there's a good option at this point. I'd role with Hoyer for now because he showed he could use Gordon and Cameron last year and he went 3/0 as a starter. That's more than either players shown this year. Our entire offense looks completely out of it so far. Hoyers best attribute is getting the ball out of his hands quickly and being deciisize. I thinks that's what we need until our team gets the hang of this offense. Manziel might get killed, and his free style playing probably isn't ideal for other players growth immediately.

Give Hoyer the first 3 and see what happens. Re-evaulate at the bye.


Hoyer only completed 2 of 4 passes against the Bills for 25 yards.

A pitcher must go 5 innings to get credit for a win, Hoyer didn't get out of the 1st inning. I know it sounds good and even professional journalists use that reference but we all know better here so you can go ahead and say it like it is, he was 2-0 as a starter.


One of those inconpletions was a dropped would be easy 80 yard touchdown to Gordon on the first play of the game. He would have won that game if he didn't get hurt anyways because the defense and special teams scores 17 points completely unassisted from the QB and Weeden played horrible. That was a won game no matter who started. I still thought Hoyer was looking really good until that injury. He passed well and created with his legs.
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mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 48868
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roger murdock wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
roger murdock wrote:
Brees won the next year too.

I agree we should pick someone but I don't know if there's a good option at this point. I'd role with Hoyer for now because he showed he could use Gordon and Cameron last year and he went 3/0 as a starter. That's more than either players shown this year. Our entire offense looks completely out of it so far. Hoyers best attribute is getting the ball out of his hands quickly and being deciisize. I thinks that's what we need until our team gets the hang of this offense. Manziel might get killed, and his free style playing probably isn't ideal for other players growth immediately.

Give Hoyer the first 3 and see what happens. Re-evaulate at the bye.


Hoyer only completed 2 of 4 passes against the Bills for 25 yards.

A pitcher must go 5 innings to get credit for a win, Hoyer didn't get out of the 1st inning. I know it sounds good and even professional journalists use that reference but we all know better here so you can go ahead and say it like it is, he was 2-0 as a starter.


One of those inconpletions was a dropped would be easy 80 yard touchdown to Gordon on the first play of the game. He would have won that game if he didn't get hurt anyways because the defense and special teams scores 17 points completely unassisted from the QB and Weeden played horrible. That was a won game no matter who started. I still thought Hoyer was looking really good until that injury. He passed well and created with his legs.


manuel was driving til he got injured
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freakygeniuskid


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Joined: 04 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:
Quote:
“I don’t know,’’ he said, not long before the Browns boarded their charter to return to Cleveland. “Neither guy really distinguished himself tonight, and we’ll have to go back and study the tape and figure out who to go with. I will lean on [offensive coordinator] Kyle Shanahan and [quarterback coach] Dowell Loggains quite a bit, because they’ve watched them every day.’’

I asked: “Do you have a gut feeling right now?”

“I don’t. I don’t,’’ said Pettine

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/08/19/johnny-manziel-brian-hoyer-cleveland-browns-quarterback/

went from sizable lead to... no clue

AND THIS IS THE GUY YOU WANT QBING YOUR TEAM?


Yep. Coach speak dude, coach speak.

Manziel is coming from a system where he didn't have a playbook, didn't call plays, and didn't huddle, and he's flipping off the opposition because of frustration on field (15 yard penalty if the refs notice it in-game). I hope he's starting by the end of the year, but until he gets the mental side of the game I don't want him out there getting frustrated and messing himself up mentally. If the coaches think he's ready mentally then you start him, but Hoyer isn't a terrible option to run out until Manziel is ready.

And I really don't think this is one of those situations where you say, "well he can't get better until he's playing!" because I think this one is quite the opposite. It's not the rhythm, the footwork, or the chemistry that needs help the most with him (although those are definitely all issues). It's memorizing and being confident with the playbook, it's learning how to read and break down a defense, and its learning how to control his emotions when he's frustrated and things are going wrong. I'd personally prefer that he be ready with those first two before he start working on the third.
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mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 48868
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

freakygeniuskid wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
Quote:
“I don’t know,’’ he said, not long before the Browns boarded their charter to return to Cleveland. “Neither guy really distinguished himself tonight, and we’ll have to go back and study the tape and figure out who to go with. I will lean on [offensive coordinator] Kyle Shanahan and [quarterback coach] Dowell Loggains quite a bit, because they’ve watched them every day.’’

I asked: “Do you have a gut feeling right now?”

“I don’t. I don’t,’’ said Pettine

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/08/19/johnny-manziel-brian-hoyer-cleveland-browns-quarterback/

went from sizable lead to... no clue

AND THIS IS THE GUY YOU WANT QBING YOUR TEAM?


Yep. Coach speak dude, coach speak.

Manziel is coming from a system where he didn't have a playbook, didn't call plays, and didn't huddle, and he's flipping off the opposition because of frustration on field (15 yard penalty if the refs notice it in-game). I hope he's starting by the end of the year, but until he gets the mental side of the game I don't want him out there getting frustrated and messing himself up mentally. If the coaches think he's ready mentally then you start him, but Hoyer isn't a terrible option to run out until Manziel is ready.

And I really don't think this is one of those situations where you say, "well he can't get better until he's playing!" because I think this one is quite the opposite. It's not the rhythm, the footwork, or the chemistry that needs help the most with him (although those are definitely all issues). It's memorizing and being confident with the playbook, it's learning how to read and break down a defense, and its learning how to control his emotions when he's frustrated and things are going wrong. I'd personally prefer that he be ready with those first two before he start working on the third.


he's certainly not sufficient if the kid who doesnt know the playbook has closed the gap in which the only thing hoyer had over him was "knowing the playbook" and "being a vet"

and now pettine has come out and said he's basically a rookie

Its not coach speak that the dude is giving up ground to manziel, its not coach speak that he's been abysmal in preseason, and its not coach speak that he isnt getting better on the screen

there's cause for alarm in either case- which is NOT what the pro hoyer contingent has argued, nor is it what we were fed by the GM and the Coach

we're screwed if Hoyer is our QB.
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BwickBrownie


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 2630
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:
freakygeniuskid wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
Quote:
“I don’t know,’’ he said, not long before the Browns boarded their charter to return to Cleveland. “Neither guy really distinguished himself tonight, and we’ll have to go back and study the tape and figure out who to go with. I will lean on [offensive coordinator] Kyle Shanahan and [quarterback coach] Dowell Loggains quite a bit, because they’ve watched them every day.’’

I asked: “Do you have a gut feeling right now?”

“I don’t. I don’t,’’ said Pettine

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/08/19/johnny-manziel-brian-hoyer-cleveland-browns-quarterback/

went from sizable lead to... no clue

AND THIS IS THE GUY YOU WANT QBING YOUR TEAM?


Yep. Coach speak dude, coach speak.

Manziel is coming from a system where he didn't have a playbook, didn't call plays, and didn't huddle, and he's flipping off the opposition because of frustration on field (15 yard penalty if the refs notice it in-game). I hope he's starting by the end of the year, but until he gets the mental side of the game I don't want him out there getting frustrated and messing himself up mentally. If the coaches think he's ready mentally then you start him, but Hoyer isn't a terrible option to run out until Manziel is ready.

And I really don't think this is one of those situations where you say, "well he can't get better until he's playing!" because I think this one is quite the opposite. It's not the rhythm, the footwork, or the chemistry that needs help the most with him (although those are definitely all issues). It's memorizing and being confident with the playbook, it's learning how to read and break down a defense, and its learning how to control his emotions when he's frustrated and things are going wrong. I'd personally prefer that he be ready with those first two before he start working on the third.


he's certainly not sufficient if the kid who doesnt know the playbook has closed the gap in which the only thing hoyer had over him was "knowing the playbook" and "being a vet"

and now pettine has come out and said he's basically a rookie

Its not coach speak that the dude is giving up ground to manziel, its not coach speak that he's been abysmal in preseason, and its not coach speak that he isnt getting better on the screen

there's cause for alarm in either case- which is NOT what the pro hoyer contingent has argued, nor is it what we were fed by the GM and the Coach

we're screwed if Hoyer is our QB.


We're screwed if Manziel is our QB for a while too... it's just that there are more benefits to losing games with Manziel instead of losing games with Hoyer at this point.
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mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 48868
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BwickBrownie wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
freakygeniuskid wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
Quote:
“I don’t know,’’ he said, not long before the Browns boarded their charter to return to Cleveland. “Neither guy really distinguished himself tonight, and we’ll have to go back and study the tape and figure out who to go with. I will lean on [offensive coordinator] Kyle Shanahan and [quarterback coach] Dowell Loggains quite a bit, because they’ve watched them every day.’’

I asked: “Do you have a gut feeling right now?”

“I don’t. I don’t,’’ said Pettine

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/08/19/johnny-manziel-brian-hoyer-cleveland-browns-quarterback/

went from sizable lead to... no clue

AND THIS IS THE GUY YOU WANT QBING YOUR TEAM?


Yep. Coach speak dude, coach speak.

Manziel is coming from a system where he didn't have a playbook, didn't call plays, and didn't huddle, and he's flipping off the opposition because of frustration on field (15 yard penalty if the refs notice it in-game). I hope he's starting by the end of the year, but until he gets the mental side of the game I don't want him out there getting frustrated and messing himself up mentally. If the coaches think he's ready mentally then you start him, but Hoyer isn't a terrible option to run out until Manziel is ready.

And I really don't think this is one of those situations where you say, "well he can't get better until he's playing!" because I think this one is quite the opposite. It's not the rhythm, the footwork, or the chemistry that needs help the most with him (although those are definitely all issues). It's memorizing and being confident with the playbook, it's learning how to read and break down a defense, and its learning how to control his emotions when he's frustrated and things are going wrong. I'd personally prefer that he be ready with those first two before he start working on the third.


he's certainly not sufficient if the kid who doesnt know the playbook has closed the gap in which the only thing hoyer had over him was "knowing the playbook" and "being a vet"

and now pettine has come out and said he's basically a rookie

Its not coach speak that the dude is giving up ground to manziel, its not coach speak that he's been abysmal in preseason, and its not coach speak that he isnt getting better on the screen

there's cause for alarm in either case- which is NOT what the pro hoyer contingent has argued, nor is it what we were fed by the GM and the Coach

we're screwed if Hoyer is our QB.


We're screwed if Manziel is our QB for a while too... it's just that there are more benefits to losing games with Manziel instead of losing games with Hoyer at this point.


funny, thats what ive been saying for awhile now
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BwickBrownie


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 2630
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:


funny, thats what ive been saying for awhile now


You've just been cluttering up the point with so many disagreeable things that it's hard to pick the gem out of all of it Wink
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freakygeniuskid


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Joined: 04 Feb 2007
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Location: Charlotte, NC
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BwickBrownie wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:


funny, thats what ive been saying for awhile now


You've just been cluttering up the point with so many disagreeable things that it's hard to pick the gem out of all of it Wink


See, I would disagree because I think with Manziel's psyche (what I know of it) getting trotted out and embarrassed because he's not mentally prepared for the game could be extremely detrimental to him long term. Getting crushed because you're being asked to do a job that you're not mentally prepared for can be tough for people. Especially a 20 year old kid who hasn't failed at much of anything in his life.

It's possible that he responds well to it, but I just don't see the need to risk it when I don't know how being on the field would help his mental development at all. Kinda a no-gain proposition.
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BwickBrownie


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

freakygeniuskid wrote:
BwickBrownie wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:


funny, thats what ive been saying for awhile now


You've just been cluttering up the point with so many disagreeable things that it's hard to pick the gem out of all of it Wink


See, I would disagree because I think with Manziel's psyche (what I know of it) getting trotted out and embarrassed because he's not mentally prepared for the game could be extremely detrimental to him long term. Getting crushed because you're being asked to do a job that you're not mentally prepared for can be tough for people. Especially a 20 year old kid who hasn't failed at much of anything in his life.

It's possible that he responds well to it, but I just don't see the need to risk it when I don't know how being on the field would help his mental development at all. Kinda a no-gain proposition.


Quote:
Manziel never would be cool with accepting that someone or something got the better of him. That doesn't guarantee success. Competitive pride is the foundation upon which success is built.

"When people talk about competitiveness, some people evaluate it as wanting to win a game," said George Whitfield, the QB guru who has worked with Manziel. "For Johnny, competitiveness is Me vs. The World, and it's a case of you representing The World, and I'm not losing. ... It doesn't matter if it's Ping Pong in the facility or a game of H-O-R-S-E. He's not going to accept losing. It's about competitiveness pride. No matter how much people look at all the 'stuff' with him, the great predictor of success isn't what you've done but what you've come through -- the fire, the trials, the tribulations, the setbacks."

Whitfield points out that Manziel was lightly recruited out of high school. TCU coach Gary Patterson, according to Manziel, told him: "Not all dreams end with a Division I scholarship." He claims Texas wanted him to be a defensive back, not a quarterback. Texas A&M didn't play him as a true freshman, which caused Manziel to consider transferring. But that would mean that someone or something got the better of him, so he stayed and won the Heisman Trophy the following season


http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=11344742&src=desktop&wjb

I know there's a difference between being benched and being "thrown to the wolves", but I think this article illustrates how Manziel deals with tough situations. Short of making Johnny play to his physical detriment ala the Colt McCoy debacle, I don't see him imploding from early losing.
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BwickBrownie


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Browns conference call going on currently:

Quote:
Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 2m
Pettine: “We’re not in a position to make (an announcement) at this time. … the meeting about the QB will occur later.” May not make a call

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 2m
#Browns QB Mike Pettine, on QB announcement: “If we have to wait until the next game, so be it.”

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 1m
Mike Pettine: “When we talk tonight, I don’t sense a lot of division. I think there’s a lot of common ground with all of us.”


If they haven't met yet, then so be it, but if they delay it past tomorrow? I'll get whiplash from shaking my head so hard..

Update:

Quote:
Nate Ulrich ‏@NateUlrichABJ 45s
#Browns HC Mike Pettine said he would like to make a QB decision tonight and that's still very much a possibility.


Quote:
Zac Jackson ‏@FSOhioZJackson 43s
Pettine: "What's disappointing is the guys around both QBs didn't play well or were very inconsistent." Names Mack's snap on 1st play.


Update:

Quote:
Zac Jackson ‏@FSOhioZJackson 1m
Pettine: "It's very typical in the NFL for the media and the fan base where the sky is falling after a loss."

Zac Jackson ‏@FSOhioZJackson 1m
Pettine: "We certainly aren't anywhere near hitting the panic button."
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roger murdock


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This entire situation is sooooooo similar to everything we've dealt with in the past 15 years its spooky.

I really wish we still had Chud.
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nugpimpen


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At this point, why not wait till the 3rd game is over?

I don't even know anymore.


If they really don't know, let em duke it out the whole damn 3rd game.


F it all
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mistakebytehlak


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:
At this point, why not wait till the 3rd game is over?

I don't even know anymore.


If they really don't know, let em duke it out the whole damn 3rd game.


F it all


id prefer hoyer to that solution.

one qb going forward needs all of the reps
it is their job to find out which one
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hornbybrown


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
At this point, why not wait till the 3rd game is over?

I don't even know anymore.


If they really don't know, let em duke it out the whole damn 3rd game.


F it all


id prefer hoyer to that solution.

one qb going forward needs all of the reps
it is their job to find out which one


This. The reason I started this thread is because last night proved this is not fair on either QB. Name a starter and give him all the reps
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