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TeHDruiD


Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Posts: 7155
Location: Canton, OH
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the long posts, I'll keep this one short

Game 3 is always the most meaningful game, both the offense and defense scheme for this game, unlike the other 3 games. We need to see which QB plays better within the scheme in this 3rd game. I know this isn't what Pettine wanted, but these guys left him no choice. I think his mind, as well as everyone elses, was blown when Hoyer tanked as bad as he did
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hornbybrown


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 19112
Location: 1600 Pennyslvania Ave
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TeHDruiD wrote:
Sorry for the long posts, I'll keep this one short

Game 3 is always the most meaningful game, both the offense and defense scheme for this game, unlike the other 3 games. We need to see which QB plays better within the scheme in this 3rd game. I know this isn't what Pettine wanted, but these guys left him no choice. I think his mind, as well as everyone elses, was blown when Hoyer tanked as bad as he did


The problem with that is we need someone to be getting all the first team reps.

You are bang on about Hoyers knee. I brought it up earlier as our OC will be very aware of this as Hoyer looks like RG3 did last season. I'm hoping this will help Kyle help Hoyer out of this or push hard for Manziel because of it.
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TeHDruiD


Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Posts: 7155
Location: Canton, OH
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, that definitely is the issue. That's ultimately why Pettine wanted to have his QB picked early this week so they could put that plan into effect. He still very well could name a guy the QB today and that gives him all of the 1st team reps, but they made it so dang hard on him that he almost has to use Saturday's game as the final evaluation.

They do have a few weeks of film they can go through and Shanahan looks like a guy who takes his job seriously, so he may have seen something that pulls the weight in one direction, but I just don't know. Lastnight was brutal and these guys did no one, including themselves, any favors

It's all fun and games when fans and media are allowed into camp (not fun and games, but it's primarily install), but when the curtain closes it's all business on the scheming and game planning end. I just wish one guy clearly won the competition, because the longer this drags out, the more sloppy the QB play is going to be. THAT may be where Hoyer truly has the edge, he has experience in NFL offenses where Johnny is still learning the ropes. One way or the other I don't care, I just hope they name a guy so they're prepared come week 1. I want us to smash the Steelers and throwing the ball is a big part of that
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TommyLF


Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 3487
Location: Columbus, Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As much as I want it to be Johnny football I just don't think he's ready. Name Hoyer the starter and get him the reps. With our scrubs at WR, I don't really think it matters anyway
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BwickBrownie


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 2630
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As someone who felt like Hoyer gave the Browns a better shot at winning early on, after last night I think Manziel should be declared the starter.
It's clear QB is not going to be the sole decider of wins and losses. The offense I saw was the offense of a four win team, so even if Manziel is the worse of the two QB's early on, it's not like he'll be the only reason the Browns are losing, so you might as well get him more experience than he would get while sitting on the bench. I don't even think benching Hoyer is an indictment on his play...it's simply acknowledging the Browns have a developing offense that's going to struggle almost everywhere, and that Manziel is the future. At this stage, the priority is no longer strategizing to find the best QB every week.. the priority is getting Manziel experience with the ones to jump start his development.
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revans52us


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 1923
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hornbybrown wrote:
This iirc is Hoyers 6th trainning camp and at best he is looking at the same level as Manziel.

That for me is more than enough reason to name Manziel the starter.

Clearly has more upside or Hoyer with his years in the league would be looking the better of the two.


Absolutely!! Based on Shanahans offense, Manziel fits the QB mold to a T. Zone blocking scheme and play actions off the stretch, IMO, makes JM the QB.
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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 28488
Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly they both looked like complete dog [inappropriate/removed] and i'm sick that one of them has to start Day 1.

Physicall Ill
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:
Honestly they both looked like complete dog [inappropriate/removed] and i'm sick that one of them has to start Day 1.

Physically Ill


if watching preseason football makes your Physically Ill, you might want to get that checked out.

If you are getting sick just from watching the QBs, what happens to you when you are watching the WRs?

looking at the Silver lining. From PS gm 1 to PS gm 2, Hoyer didnt improve but manziel did.

To me Manziel made a couple really nice throws on the run and looked better in the pocket compared to the 1st gm. To me at the moment know QB on the roster is ready for WK 1 but luckily there is still 2 more preseason games, so there is still 3weeks until the steelers game. I think in that 3week time frame. Manziel might be able to pass hoyer for the starting job
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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 28488
Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
Honestly they both looked like complete dog [inappropriate/removed] and i'm sick that one of them has to start Day 1.

Physically Ill


if watching preseason football makes your Physically Ill, you might want to get that checked out.

If you are getting sick just from watching the QBs, what happens to you when you are watching the WRs?

looking at the Silver lining. From PS gm 1 to PS gm 2, Hoyer didnt improve but manziel did.

To me Manziel made a couple really nice throws on the run and looked better in the pocket compared to the 1st gm. To me at the moment know QB on the roster is ready for WK 1 but luckily there is still 2 more preseason games, so there is still 3weeks until the steelers game. I think in that 3week time frame. Manziel might be able to pass hoyer for the starting job


You thought Manziel looked better in the 2nd game over the 1st??? I sure as hell didn't. The first game showed good accuracy. Yesterday? Not so much.

What makes me physicall Ill is that, for the 15th street season, we go into the season without a good option at QB. They both look like crap. I don't care what kind of game it is. They went out there with the 1's vs. the 1's and looked lost.
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BwickBrownie


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 2630
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:
buno67 wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
Honestly they both looked like complete dog [inappropriate/removed] and i'm sick that one of them has to start Day 1.

Physically Ill


if watching preseason football makes your Physically Ill, you might want to get that checked out.

If you are getting sick just from watching the QBs, what happens to you when you are watching the WRs?

looking at the Silver lining. From PS gm 1 to PS gm 2, Hoyer didnt improve but manziel did.

To me Manziel made a couple really nice throws on the run and looked better in the pocket compared to the 1st gm. To me at the moment know QB on the roster is ready for WK 1 but luckily there is still 2 more preseason games, so there is still 3weeks until the steelers game. I think in that 3week time frame. Manziel might be able to pass hoyer for the starting job


You thought Manziel looked better in the 2nd game over the 1st??? I sure as hell didn't. The first game showed good accuracy. Yesterday? Not so much.

What makes me physicall Ill is that, for the 15th street season, we go into the season without a good option at QB. They both look like crap. I don't care what kind of game it is. They went out there with the 1's vs. the 1's and looked lost.


I'm with you here Nug... watching that offense last night was like a swift kick in the junk to all my hopes for this season. They looked pitiful. And when the spotlight was on the qb's for one of them to make a decisive stand, both folded like a cheap tent. It's scary how bad this season could start off against Pittsburgh in a couple weeks.
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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 28488
Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BwickBrownie wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
buno67 wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
Honestly they both looked like complete dog [inappropriate/removed] and i'm sick that one of them has to start Day 1.

Physically Ill


if watching preseason football makes your Physically Ill, you might want to get that checked out.

If you are getting sick just from watching the QBs, what happens to you when you are watching the WRs?

looking at the Silver lining. From PS gm 1 to PS gm 2, Hoyer didnt improve but manziel did.

To me Manziel made a couple really nice throws on the run and looked better in the pocket compared to the 1st gm. To me at the moment know QB on the roster is ready for WK 1 but luckily there is still 2 more preseason games, so there is still 3weeks until the steelers game. I think in that 3week time frame. Manziel might be able to pass hoyer for the starting job


You thought Manziel looked better in the 2nd game over the 1st??? I sure as hell didn't. The first game showed good accuracy. Yesterday? Not so much.

What makes me physicall Ill is that, for the 15th street season, we go into the season without a good option at QB. They both look like crap. I don't care what kind of game it is. They went out there with the 1's vs. the 1's and looked lost.


I'm with you here Nug... watching that offense last night was like a swift kick in the junk to all my hopes for this season. They looked pitiful. And when the spotlight was on the qb's for one of them to make a decisive stand, both folded like a cheap tent. It's scary how bad this season could start off against Pittsburgh in a couple weeks.


Ya it's gonna be a rough start.

The blessing is that the last 10-12 games are not that rough looking.
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 40997
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:
buno67 wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
Honestly they both looked like complete dog [inappropriate/removed] and i'm sick that one of them has to start Day 1.

Physically Ill


if watching preseason football makes your Physically Ill, you might want to get that checked out.

If you are getting sick just from watching the QBs, what happens to you when you are watching the WRs?

looking at the Silver lining. From PS gm 1 to PS gm 2, Hoyer didnt improve but manziel did.

To me Manziel made a couple really nice throws on the run and looked better in the pocket compared to the 1st gm. To me at the moment know QB on the roster is ready for WK 1 but luckily there is still 2 more preseason games, so there is still 3weeks until the steelers game. I think in that 3week time frame. Manziel might be able to pass hoyer for the starting job


You thought Manziel looked better in the 2nd game over the 1st??? I sure as hell didn't. The first game showed good accuracy. Yesterday? Not so much.

What makes me physicall Ill is that, for the 15th street season, we go into the season without a good option at QB. They both look like crap. I don't care what kind of game it is. They went out there with the 1's vs. the 1's and looked lost.


first game he showed good accuracy but he was throwing check down or had pass plays where he wasnt throwing longer passes. Last night to me they gave him a bigger playbook and he was throwing it farther then he was in game 1. To me Manziel missed passes were more to do with timing then not being inaccurate. So hopefully after wk3, Pettine can name a starter and let those 1s gel together.

I am just not going to get worked up over a QB competition b/w 2QBs who are learning the playbook who are now splitting reps with the 1st teams
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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 28488
Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
buno67 wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
Honestly they both looked like complete dog [inappropriate/removed] and i'm sick that one of them has to start Day 1.

Physically Ill


if watching preseason football makes your Physically Ill, you might want to get that checked out.

If you are getting sick just from watching the QBs, what happens to you when you are watching the WRs?

looking at the Silver lining. From PS gm 1 to PS gm 2, Hoyer didnt improve but manziel did.

To me Manziel made a couple really nice throws on the run and looked better in the pocket compared to the 1st gm. To me at the moment know QB on the roster is ready for WK 1 but luckily there is still 2 more preseason games, so there is still 3weeks until the steelers game. I think in that 3week time frame. Manziel might be able to pass hoyer for the starting job


You thought Manziel looked better in the 2nd game over the 1st??? I sure as hell didn't. The first game showed good accuracy. Yesterday? Not so much.

What makes me physicall Ill is that, for the 15th street season, we go into the season without a good option at QB. They both look like crap. I don't care what kind of game it is. They went out there with the 1's vs. the 1's and looked lost.


first game he showed good accuracy but he was throwing check down or had pass plays where he wasnt throwing longer passes. Last night to me they gave him a bigger playbook and he was throwing it farther then he was in game 1. To me Manziel missed passes were more to do with timing then not being inaccurate. So hopefully after wk3, Pettine can name a starter and let those 1s gel together.

I am just not going to get worked up over a QB competition b/w 2QBs who are learning the playbook who are now splitting reps with the 1st teams


I don't think he took a shot of more than 20 yards downfield one time. All the passes were still short.

I agree about timing and rhythm for sure. Both are suffering from it and it should improve once a winner is named.

They need to kill the read option. It's the devil
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Christian Kirksey, ILB
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BooyaCS


Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 7520
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
buno67 wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
Honestly they both looked like complete dog [inappropriate/removed] and i'm sick that one of them has to start Day 1.

Physically Ill


if watching preseason football makes your Physically Ill, you might want to get that checked out.

If you are getting sick just from watching the QBs, what happens to you when you are watching the WRs?

looking at the Silver lining. From PS gm 1 to PS gm 2, Hoyer didnt improve but manziel did.

To me Manziel made a couple really nice throws on the run and looked better in the pocket compared to the 1st gm. To me at the moment know QB on the roster is ready for WK 1 but luckily there is still 2 more preseason games, so there is still 3weeks until the steelers game. I think in that 3week time frame. Manziel might be able to pass hoyer for the starting job


You thought Manziel looked better in the 2nd game over the 1st??? I sure as hell didn't. The first game showed good accuracy. Yesterday? Not so much.

What makes me physicall Ill is that, for the 15th street season, we go into the season without a good option at QB. They both look like crap. I don't care what kind of game it is. They went out there with the 1's vs. the 1's and looked lost.


first game he showed good accuracy but he was throwing check down or had pass plays where he wasnt throwing longer passes. Last night to me they gave him a bigger playbook and he was throwing it farther then he was in game 1. To me Manziel missed passes were more to do with timing then not being inaccurate. So hopefully after wk3, Pettine can name a starter and let those 1s gel together.

I am just not going to get worked up over a QB competition b/w 2QBs who are learning the playbook who are now splitting reps with the 1st teams


Hoyer was very inaccurrate last night. He missed an easy TD to Hawkins and doesn't seem to want to transfer weight to throw the ball.

This is what happens when you split reps with the 1s. You don't get any chemistry or timing. This is why these QB competitions are jokes.

Pick a guy and get him ready for the season.
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BwickBrownie


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 2630
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BooyaCS wrote:
buno67 wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
buno67 wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
Honestly they both looked like complete dog [inappropriate/removed] and i'm sick that one of them has to start Day 1.

Physically Ill


if watching preseason football makes your Physically Ill, you might want to get that checked out.

If you are getting sick just from watching the QBs, what happens to you when you are watching the WRs?

looking at the Silver lining. From PS gm 1 to PS gm 2, Hoyer didnt improve but manziel did.

To me Manziel made a couple really nice throws on the run and looked better in the pocket compared to the 1st gm. To me at the moment know QB on the roster is ready for WK 1 but luckily there is still 2 more preseason games, so there is still 3weeks until the steelers game. I think in that 3week time frame. Manziel might be able to pass hoyer for the starting job


You thought Manziel looked better in the 2nd game over the 1st??? I sure as hell didn't. The first game showed good accuracy. Yesterday? Not so much.

What makes me physicall Ill is that, for the 15th street season, we go into the season without a good option at QB. They both look like crap. I don't care what kind of game it is. They went out there with the 1's vs. the 1's and looked lost.


first game he showed good accuracy but he was throwing check down or had pass plays where he wasnt throwing longer passes. Last night to me they gave him a bigger playbook and he was throwing it farther then he was in game 1. To me Manziel missed passes were more to do with timing then not being inaccurate. So hopefully after wk3, Pettine can name a starter and let those 1s gel together.

I am just not going to get worked up over a QB competition b/w 2QBs who are learning the playbook who are now splitting reps with the 1st teams


Hoyer was very inaccurrate last night. He missed an easy TD to Hawkins and doesn't seem to want to transfer weight to throw the ball.

This is what happens when you split reps with the 1s. You don't get any chemistry or timing. This is why these QB competitions are jokes.

Pick a guy and get him ready for the season.


I won't go so far as to agree that QB competitions are a joke, especially for a new regime that needs to see what they have before making a decision, but I think now is the time to end it for the reasons you state. They have to commit using the information they have and not look back, because it's hurting the offense as a whole to not give them time to gel during the third preseason game.
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