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49ers taking a step back article...

 
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9erNation2013


Joined: 22 Oct 2013
Posts: 144
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:08 pm    Post subject: 49ers taking a step back article... Reply with quote

What are everyone's thoughts on this article??

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000374797/article/niners-falling-behind-seahawks-on-defense


Some people seem to think the 49ers are the team to take a step back this year!
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Ataal


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I read that, I feel like I'm reading an article by someone who knows slightly more than a casual fan about this team.

If I have time today, I'll go through it in more detail.

But, basically, it's just lazy writing to say we'll have some major regression because we've lost guys in our secondary and that we'll have growing pains because of it. Lazy. Or ignorant. Maybe both?
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the writer said what I think at the end of his article.. we'll see some growing pains, with young guys coming into their own. Maybe we won't be a top 5 D overall, but we may very well be top 5 over the last 5-7 weeks of the season, once we get Bowman and Aldon back, and Culliver gets into more of a game shape, and Ward and Morris gain more experience, and Bethea grows more comfortable, etc. And if we can get a good rotation going on the DL, We'll have fresher and stronger Justin Smith and RayMac to finish off the season strong. This year in particular, I won't really care where our D stands in the rankings at the end of the year. I just want to see the unit finish the season strong and make a push into the playoffs (if we make it, of course).
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clarkfn2284


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think as fans we get overly defensive (no pun intended) regarding our team. It is more plausible to look at the losses this team has had on the defensive side of the ball compared to the additions and have the thought that there will be regression.

Look at the losses and look at the additions. Take away any optimism that we have as fans and try to look at it objectively.

Rogers, Brown, Whitner

Not too many teams can lose 2 of their three starting corners and their starting strong safety and a clear leader of the secondary and the defense and not see regression.

Replaced with

Brock, Cook/Ward and Bethea

These are the direct replacements, at least how it looks so far. Bethea is a solid safety, but he is kind of an unknown player amongst the league. He will be a pleasant surprise in my opinion, but Whitner even though there were holes in his game had a bit of a demeanor or impact to his game(not finding the right word right now) that kind of overvalued his game. Brock is really a first year starter even though he showed a ton of ability last season. Ward is a rookie that was viewed as a reach where he was selected. The secondary is going to be tested and there are a lot of unknowns regarding it. So considering all of that on paper it isnt that hard to understand that thinking.

Glenn Dorsey, Ian WIlliams, Aldon Smith, NaVorro Bowman

Williams doesnt appear to be ready for action after his ankle injury and losing Dorsey who was a fantastic player finally being used in the proper fashion hurts this defensive line and test the depth incredibly early. Aldon has his looming suspension and anytime he is not on the field i think we can all agree he is an ireeplaceable player and it changes the defensive. Bowman is the best LB sideline to sideline in the game. He is coming back from a devastating injury late in the year. Expected to be out til after the bye week.

Replaced with

Dial/Jerrod-Eddie, Lemonier/Lynch, Wilhoite/Borland

Again replacing solid veteran players with guys who have had a literal cup of coffee in the league in Dial/Jerrod-Eddie. TJE look real good at time last season and we all know the potential of Dial. The fact remains potential is just that. Neither of those guys have proven to be anything more then a backup at this point. ALdon is irreplaceable and while Lemonier looked amazing in the preseason last year he obviously stepped back and struggled some in the regular season due to lack of opportunity. Aaron Lynch has been compared to Aldon. He also has been linked to character concerns and lack of a motor or will to win. That will not produce a viable replacement for however many games Aldon is suspended for. THey could use Skuta, but again he isnt Aldon....he isnt even close. How do you replace the best MLB in the game? You dont. Wilhoite played very well last season in his time for Willis. Borland is clearly a talented guy, but he seems like the type of guy that will always out perform his talent because of his geart. Not that its a bad thing, but again talent wins out in this league. He has it, but not like the two starters.

THink about it guys, we tend to value our team so much that we have a hard time seeing things objectively and without the red and gold glasses. Looking at this team on paper it is very likely that the defense will regress. I dont see them getting outside of the top 10, but 6-10 seems realistic.

I wouldnt call this someone who was lazy as much as someone who was objective. I mean I just made the same arguement about the defense regressing and I wouldnt say I was lazy about it.
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rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I exprssed this same worry a couple months or so ago. Not only are we losing three of our dbs from last year, but btween all three of those guys they only missed a few games over the past three years. So there was a whole lot of chemistry there that only time can replace no matter how good the replacement guys are.
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
I exprssed this same worry a couple months or so ago. Not only are we losing three of our dbs from last year, but btween all three of those guys they only missed a few games over the past three years. So there was a whole lot of chemistry there that only time can replace no matter how good the replacement guys are.


How much time was required for those three to gain chemistry in 2011? The team was the 4th-ranked defense that year. Rogers and Whitner were free agent signings playing in a lockout shortened offseason. And Whitner didn't come in as a 2-time Pro Bowler like Bethea is with a full-offseason. Brown had only started 5 games over 4 seasons (Brock has 7 games over 4). Culliver and Brock have even been teammates for 3 seasons already. Rogers and Cook were both high draft picks that played reasonably well but showed no ball skills before signing as free agents.

I'm not guaranteeing it will happen again, but this is hardly an impossible task when you have leaders on the defense (Willis, Justin, Brooks, etc. will all be around).
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
I exprssed this same worry a couple months or so ago. Not only are we losing three of our dbs from last year, but btween all three of those guys they only missed a few games over the past three years. So there was a whole lot of chemistry there that only time can replace no matter how good the replacement guys are.


How much time was required for those three to gain chemistry in 2011? The team was the 4th-ranked defense that year. Rogers and Whitner were free agent signings playing in a lockout shortened offseason. And Whitner didn't come in as a 2-time Pro Bowler like Bethea is with a full-offseason. Brown had only started 5 games over 4 seasons (Brock has 7 games over 4). Culliver and Brock have even been teammates for 3 seasons already. Rogers and Cook were both high draft picks that played reasonably well but showed no ball skills before signing as free agents.

I'm not guaranteeing it will happen again, but this is hardly an impossible task when you have leaders on the defense (Willis, Justin, Brooks, etc. will all be around).



And Bowman hadn't been a starter before 2011, as well. This goes to show how great of a coaching staff we had in 2011, that all these guys came together to form one of the best D I've ever seen (Justin truly had an amazing season that year). The good news is, that coaching staff is still all there. I'm not too worried about the secondary, with Donatell coaching them. I'm not worried about our DL, where we have great experienced players and Jim Tomsula. And honestly, we don't talk often about Jim Leavitt, but who here can say he hasn't done an amazing job? When we talk about the usual suspects to leave for head coaching jobs elsewhere, we always mention Roman, sometimes Fangio, even Donatell has been mentioned here and there, but Leavitt probably will be a head coach in the NFL one day. So, I'm not too worried about the defense. It might drop some, but these guys will always keep us in the game.
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clarkfn2284


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
I exprssed this same worry a couple months or so ago. Not only are we losing three of our dbs from last year, but btween all three of those guys they only missed a few games over the past three years. So there was a whole lot of chemistry there that only time can replace no matter how good the replacement guys are.


How much time was required for those three to gain chemistry in 2011? The team was the 4th-ranked defense that year. Rogers and Whitner were free agent signings playing in a lockout shortened offseason. And Whitner didn't come in as a 2-time Pro Bowler like Bethea is with a full-offseason. Brown had only started 5 games over 4 seasons (Brock has 7 games over 4). Culliver and Brock have even been teammates for 3 seasons already. Rogers and Cook were both high draft picks that played reasonably well but showed no ball skills before signing as free agents.

I'm not guaranteeing it will happen again, but this is hardly an impossible task when you have leaders on the defense (Willis, Justin, Brooks, etc. will all be around).


I agree that the chemistry aspect should not be a major issue as long as a team has guys that are ready to be leaders. In the secondary, until further notice, one could assume they lack a leader. Now Reid should be that guy, but he is just a second year player and I would expect Bethea to take over the role some as well as long as he has an understanding of the defense.

Now I agree that the task for the defense to actually be better is not impossible, but on paper which is all we can go off of for the next 2 hours at least it is more plausible that they would regress.
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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burlow


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If our offense continues to grow as a tough ball control offense that will help our defense even more. If we are able to score on half of our possessions and get a first down on all possessions, with our talent on defense I do not know how we would not be a top 5 unit.

For the last 3 years our offense has improved every season and there is no reason this trend should not continue. Paired with our defense I think a lot of teams will try to stop dictating how the game is played in the second half of most games, they will try to score as they will feel that their opportunity to do so is closing and historically (past 3 seasons) when other teams enter that 'need to score mode' our defense always makes big plays based on the other teams desperation. The only exceptions off my head are the patriots and falcons, both of which games we won.

I know this topic is about our defense but I think our offense will pick up slack and make it easier for our defense this year in contrast to previous years where the roles were reversed. Other than this we still have on of the top defensive units in the NFL and I cannot think of another unit I would rather have.
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand the concern of not having chemistry in the back end, but we essentially held Rodgers in check with this group:

Brown/Brock/Cox/Whitner/Reid

Now, Whitner was without question the leader on and off the field for the secondary. Hopefully Bethea could take some of those responsibilities, but we are fortunate to have someone of Reid's caliber.

Brock and Culliver along with Ward/Cox should be just fine. They may allow a few more yards per game, but they will also create more turnovers.

The length of Smith's suspension is still in question and if it is three games or less, it won't be that big of a blow. We did go 5-0 without him last year, but the schedule wasn't all that tough. If Lemonier takes the next step, that will be huge and Tank is going to help the interior pass rush.

Dorsey's loss to me isn't that big. Not only are we in the nickel for 65-70% of the snaps, but we have had damn near a different NT for the last four years. I am fine with either Purcell/Dial and seems like both have performed well in camp.

So now we go to the Bowman part. No doubt this guy was absolutely great, but I expect Willis to raise his game until he returns. Remember, Willis will now play the MIKE spot and will be able to make more plays around the LOS. Whilhoite or Borland will not be able to match Bowman's production, but should be able to hold their own.

And I agree with burlow's post, our offense should be better and could make up for the potential decline of the defense.

Overall, I still expect the unit to be in the top 5.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
I exprssed this same worry a couple months or so ago. Not only are we losing three of our dbs from last year, but btween all three of those guys they only missed a few games over the past three years. So there was a whole lot of chemistry there that only time can replace no matter how good the replacement guys are.


How much time was required for those three to gain chemistry in 2011? The team was the 4th-ranked defense that year. Rogers and Whitner were free agent signings playing in a lockout shortened offseason. And Whitner didn't come in as a 2-time Pro Bowler like Bethea is with a full-offseason. Brown had only started 5 games over 4 seasons (Brock has 7 games over 4). Culliver and Brock have even been teammates for 3 seasons already. Rogers and Cook were both high draft picks that played reasonably well but showed no ball skills before signing as free agents.

I'm not guaranteeing it will happen again, but this is hardly an impossible task when you have leaders on the defense (Willis, Justin, Brooks, etc. will all be around).


Sure. Just sayin that as fans we tend to see the bright side of things.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
y2lamanaki wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
I exprssed this same worry a couple months or so ago. Not only are we losing three of our dbs from last year, but btween all three of those guys they only missed a few games over the past three years. So there was a whole lot of chemistry there that only time can replace no matter how good the replacement guys are.


How much time was required for those three to gain chemistry in 2011? The team was the 4th-ranked defense that year. Rogers and Whitner were free agent signings playing in a lockout shortened offseason. And Whitner didn't come in as a 2-time Pro Bowler like Bethea is with a full-offseason. Brown had only started 5 games over 4 seasons (Brock has 7 games over 4). Culliver and Brock have even been teammates for 3 seasons already. Rogers and Cook were both high draft picks that played reasonably well but showed no ball skills before signing as free agents.

I'm not guaranteeing it will happen again, but this is hardly an impossible task when you have leaders on the defense (Willis, Justin, Brooks, etc. will all be around).


I agree that the chemistry aspect should not be a major issue as long as a team has guys that are ready to be leaders. In the secondary, until further notice, one could assume they lack a leader. Now Reid should be that guy, but he is just a second year player and I would expect Bethea to take over the role some as well as long as he has an understanding of the defense.

Now I agree that the task for the defense to actually be better is not impossible, but on paper which is all we can go off of for the next 2 hours at least it is more plausible that they would regress.


The "chemistry thing" is simply a matter of potential miscommunications. Db's have to be able to anticipate what each other are going to do. The better they know each other the more they can anticipate correctly.
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if Aldon does miss 6-8 games, I definitely don't think this defense will be in the top 5. I think it is crazy for him to get that type of suspension since he didn't even get charged with the LAX incident.
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Deets


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cut Jonathan Martin and then SF is a better team than Seattle
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