Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Shazier will start
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Pittsburgh Steelers
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 376
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigben07MVP wrote:
CKSteeler wrote:
While I don't agree with 43's view, it was pretty standard. It's still very common (the not being sold part). Really, no one should be convinced that a guy with a partial season of success has turned a corner as a player. It's not as if he suddenly looked like a DMVP.

If the team had believed in Worilds last off-season, Jones wouldn't even have been drafted. It wasn't Woodley (despite his lackluster play of late) out there competing against Jones. The team obviously wasn't confident or expecting much from him.


Good Point.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that Worilds has turned the corner just yet. This season (assuming he stays healthy) will be huge for him, which is why I am expecting even bigger things.


Yea not turned the corner, but he got off on the right foot to starting to become impressive.

And honestly, I know this sounds like high hopes, but I think Heyward and Tuitt can both be dominate enough DEs that average OLBs can look better than try are. So if Tuitt and Heyward play like I think they can even an average Jones and Worilds combination can be a headache.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 50462
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:
While I don't agree with 43's view, it was pretty standard. It's still very common (the not being sold part). Really, no one should be convinced that a guy with a partial season of success has turned a corner as a player. It's not as if he suddenly looked like a DMVP.

If the team had believed in Worilds last off-season, Jones wouldn't even have been drafted. It wasn't Woodley (despite his lackluster play of late) out there competing against Jones. The team obviously wasn't confident or expecting much from him.


Says he doesnt agree with my view...then agrees with my view. Confused

What exactly is it you dont agree with when it comes to Worilds? Obviously you may have seen promise in him that I did not, and thats fine....but in the end, the gist of my view is exactly what you agreed with.

Anyway, I hope Worlids shatters all of my expectations. I actually like being dead wrong in terms of my low opinions of Steeler playeres. Shazier, McCullers, Worilds....Id love to be wrong about all of them.
_________________

Madden 25 Steelers Franchise
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 3008
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
CKSteeler wrote:
While I don't agree with 43's view, it was pretty standard. It's still very common (the not being sold part). Really, no one should be convinced that a guy with a partial season of success has turned a corner as a player. It's not as if he suddenly looked like a DMVP.

If the team had believed in Worilds last off-season, Jones wouldn't even have been drafted. It wasn't Woodley (despite his lackluster play of late) out there competing against Jones. The team obviously wasn't confident or expecting much from him.


Says he doesnt agree with my view...then agrees with my view. Confused

What exactly is it you dont agree with when it comes to Worilds? Obviously you may have seen promise in him that I did not, and thats fine....but in the end, the gist of my view is exactly what you agreed with.

Anyway, I hope Worlids shatters all of my expectations. I actually like being dead wrong in terms of my low opinions of Steeler playeres. Shazier, McCullers, Worilds....Id love to be wrong about all of them.


what was your opinion of colon before he got his nice new deal here? Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Posts: 5069
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Says he doesnt agree with my view...then agrees with my view.


I was referring to the past (last off-season). It's really of no consequence at this point. I wasn't very clear with my statement. I didn't think he was godawful and thought he would be a marginal starter who could produce 8-10 sacks a year in Lebeau's system. You were a little more lukewarm on him than that.

In terms of your present stance, from what I've seen, I am in agreement. I am very uneasy about giving him a huge contract, and I'm fairly certain he's never going to be a star pass rusher. Yet, that's how they are going to have pay him to keep him. He's not as good as Woodley was.

Combined with his injury history (pretty consistently nicked up and missing time here and there), I'm pretty much in agreement.
_________________
"Roger Goodell, who’s a crook and a puppet, said I was the dirtiest player in the league. If that man was on fire and I had to [urinate on him] to put him out, I wouldn’t do it. I hate him and will never respect him.”~James Harrison
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 50462
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3rivers wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
CKSteeler wrote:
While I don't agree with 43's view, it was pretty standard. It's still very common (the not being sold part). Really, no one should be convinced that a guy with a partial season of success has turned a corner as a player. It's not as if he suddenly looked like a DMVP.

If the team had believed in Worilds last off-season, Jones wouldn't even have been drafted. It wasn't Woodley (despite his lackluster play of late) out there competing against Jones. The team obviously wasn't confident or expecting much from him.


Says he doesnt agree with my view...then agrees with my view. Confused

What exactly is it you dont agree with when it comes to Worilds? Obviously you may have seen promise in him that I did not, and thats fine....but in the end, the gist of my view is exactly what you agreed with.

Anyway, I hope Worlids shatters all of my expectations. I actually like being dead wrong in terms of my low opinions of Steeler playeres. Shazier, McCullers, Worilds....Id love to be wrong about all of them.


what was your opinion of colon before he got his nice new deal here? Very Happy


My opinion of Colon was never favorable.

After the deal, my opinion of the front office went down more than my opinion of Colon.
_________________

Madden 25 Steelers Franchise
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 3008
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
3rivers wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
CKSteeler wrote:
While I don't agree with 43's view, it was pretty standard. It's still very common (the not being sold part). Really, no one should be convinced that a guy with a partial season of success has turned a corner as a player. It's not as if he suddenly looked like a DMVP.

If the team had believed in Worilds last off-season, Jones wouldn't even have been drafted. It wasn't Woodley (despite his lackluster play of late) out there competing against Jones. The team obviously wasn't confident or expecting much from him.


Says he doesnt agree with my view...then agrees with my view. Confused

What exactly is it you dont agree with when it comes to Worilds? Obviously you may have seen promise in him that I did not, and thats fine....but in the end, the gist of my view is exactly what you agreed with.

Anyway, I hope Worlids shatters all of my expectations. I actually like being dead wrong in terms of my low opinions of Steeler playeres. Shazier, McCullers, Worilds....Id love to be wrong about all of them.


what was your opinion of colon before he got his nice new deal here? Very Happy


My opinion of Colon was never favorable.

After the deal, my opinion of the front office went down more than my opinion of Colon.


took the words out of my mouth. I used to respect the FO quite a bit, but that deal was one of the reasons for recent change in attitude towards FO and coaches. Looks like this team might break that trend as it appears to have draft picks ready to produce and allowed to do so. Blount, Moore and Mitchell should be good for this team as well. Everyone is talking about Shazier, but the sleeper could be Bryant.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Posts: 5069
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With Bryant, I think the determining factor is going to be purely mental. Physically, we are hearing great things from him in practice. He's the real deal athletically.

Can he pick up the offense to get on the field? If he can't, he won't be seeing playing time. Especially if they live up to their word and employ more no-huddle.

Hopefully they at least find some ways to use him in the redzone.

Or maybe Justin Brown isn't just a camp mirage. We can hope, right?
_________________
"Roger Goodell, who’s a crook and a puppet, said I was the dirtiest player in the league. If that man was on fire and I had to [urinate on him] to put him out, I wouldn’t do it. I hate him and will never respect him.”~James Harrison
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wwhickok


Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 14290
Location: Montgomery, PA aka Steeler Nation!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually feel the same way as 43M, now, I might like the Shazier Pick a bit more than hm but I don't love it and I hate the McCullers pick.

It's a foregone conclusion, no matter how good Worilds' season is this year, he's going to free agency next season, he likes that "Tag" cash too much to resign for much cheaper here and if he plays so crappy that he doesn't have a choice, we're not going to want him anyway.

I too hope I'm wrong about all of them but I don't have a positive outlook right now about our LB Corps. At this point I'm very concerned that Jones is going to be a bust, that Shazier is going to be too small, and that Worilds just isn't that good. If that is the way it turns out, and let's hope it's not, we are without a single starter beyond Timmons.

This team would be in a very bad way because we're looking at seriously needing to address the CB position next season.
_________________


Sig courtesy of IDOG

PSN (PS3) -- wwhickok
Strive to be Leah Strong! May God continue to Bless you Leah Still!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 376
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wwhickok wrote:
I actually feel the same way as 43M, now, I might like the Shazier Pick a bit more than hm but I don't love it and I hate the McCullers pick.

It's a foregone conclusion, no matter how good Worilds' season is this year, he's going to free agency next season, he likes that "Tag" cash too much to resign for much cheaper here and if he plays so crappy that he doesn't have a choice, we're not going to want him anyway.

I too hope I'm wrong about all of them but I don't have a positive outlook right now about our LB Corps. At this point I'm very concerned that Jones is going to be a bust, that Shazier is going to be too small, and that Worilds just isn't that good. If that is the way it turns out, and let's hope it's not, we are without a single starter beyond Timmons.

This team would be in a very bad way because we're looking at seriously needing to address the CB position next season.


I'm Sorry but I get REALLY tweeked when someone says this. Shazier is 6'1" 235. That's heavier than Farrior played at his peak (6'1" 225). Timmons is 6'1" 234. Willis is 6'1" 240, Bowman 6' 240. Lewis was 6'1" 240.

The point being is Shazier is right in that same size area of some of the best LB's in the game. In fact the average NFL ILB is 6' 230.

So how is Shazier too small?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3295
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

warfelg wrote:
wwhickok wrote:
I actually feel the same way as 43M, now, I might like the Shazier Pick a bit more than hm but I don't love it and I hate the McCullers pick.

It's a foregone conclusion, no matter how good Worilds' season is this year, he's going to free agency next season, he likes that "Tag" cash too much to resign for much cheaper here and if he plays so crappy that he doesn't have a choice, we're not going to want him anyway.

I too hope I'm wrong about all of them but I don't have a positive outlook right now about our LB Corps. At this point I'm very concerned that Jones is going to be a bust, that Shazier is going to be too small, and that Worilds just isn't that good. If that is the way it turns out, and let's hope it's not, we are without a single starter beyond Timmons.

This team would be in a very bad way because we're looking at seriously needing to address the CB position next season.


I'm Sorry but I get REALLY tweeked when someone says this. Shazier is 6'1" 235. That's heavier than Farrior played at his peak (6'1" 225). Timmons is 6'1" 234. Willis is 6'1" 240, Bowman 6' 240. Lewis was 6'1" 240.

The point being is Shazier is right in that same size area of some of the best LB's in the game. In fact the average NFL ILB is 6' 230.

So how is Shazier too small?

Not to nit-pick but it's my understanding that Shazier and Farrior are playing two different positions. Timmons is in Farrior's old position and Shazier is in VW's old position. VW is 250. Traditionally it's the "run-stuffing" role. Perhaps his weight has been overblown a bit. However, what's rarely brought up is his difficulty shedding blocks. I'm not saying he never will be able to get better but it is one of his few "warts". The good news is with McClendon at NT he will get plenty of opportunities to improve in that area.
_________________

CKSteeler wrote:
And no, truth is not a 'fact.' Which is why they are two different words.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
warfelg


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 376
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chieferific wrote:
warfelg wrote:
wwhickok wrote:
I actually feel the same way as 43M, now, I might like the Shazier Pick a bit more than hm but I don't love it and I hate the McCullers pick.

It's a foregone conclusion, no matter how good Worilds' season is this year, he's going to free agency next season, he likes that "Tag" cash too much to resign for much cheaper here and if he plays so crappy that he doesn't have a choice, we're not going to want him anyway.

I too hope I'm wrong about all of them but I don't have a positive outlook right now about our LB Corps. At this point I'm very concerned that Jones is going to be a bust, that Shazier is going to be too small, and that Worilds just isn't that good. If that is the way it turns out, and let's hope it's not, we are without a single starter beyond Timmons.

This team would be in a very bad way because we're looking at seriously needing to address the CB position next season.


I'm Sorry but I get REALLY tweeked when someone says this. Shazier is 6'1" 235. That's heavier than Farrior played at his peak (6'1" 225). Timmons is 6'1" 234. Willis is 6'1" 240, Bowman 6' 240. Lewis was 6'1" 240.

The point being is Shazier is right in that same size area of some of the best LB's in the game. In fact the average NFL ILB is 6' 230.

So how is Shazier too small?

Not to nit-pick but it's my understanding that Shazier and Farrior are playing two different positions. Timmons is in Farrior's old position and Shazier is in VW's old position. VW is 250. Traditionally it's the "run-stuffing" role. Perhaps his weight has been overblown a bit. However, what's rarely brought up is his difficulty shedding blocks. I'm not saying he never will be able to get better but it is one of his few "warts". The good news is with McClendon at NT he will get plenty of opportunities to improve in that area.


Which before being Williams spot was Larry Foote's, all 6' 230 pounds of him.

Point is, the size doesn't matter. VW was what you would love out of the Buck position, but he got abused bad, especially in the pass game. And gone are the days of one being a "run stuffer" and the other being "coverage". They want both guys to do both so Timmons and Shazier can be left on the field for 3 downs.

Interesting you say "rarely brought up his difficulty shedding blocks" because all along it's said he best attribute was being able to use his extreme athleticism to get free of blockers. Not saying he's great at shedding them, but he's been free enough. Not to mention that if he is getting tied up that's more on McClendon not doing his job tying up 2 blockers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3295
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

warfelg wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
warfelg wrote:
wwhickok wrote:
I actually feel the same way as 43M, now, I might like the Shazier Pick a bit more than hm but I don't love it and I hate the McCullers pick.

It's a foregone conclusion, no matter how good Worilds' season is this year, he's going to free agency next season, he likes that "Tag" cash too much to resign for much cheaper here and if he plays so crappy that he doesn't have a choice, we're not going to want him anyway.

I too hope I'm wrong about all of them but I don't have a positive outlook right now about our LB Corps. At this point I'm very concerned that Jones is going to be a bust, that Shazier is going to be too small, and that Worilds just isn't that good. If that is the way it turns out, and let's hope it's not, we are without a single starter beyond Timmons.

This team would be in a very bad way because we're looking at seriously needing to address the CB position next season.


I'm Sorry but I get REALLY tweeked when someone says this. Shazier is 6'1" 235. That's heavier than Farrior played at his peak (6'1" 225). Timmons is 6'1" 234. Willis is 6'1" 240, Bowman 6' 240. Lewis was 6'1" 240.

The point being is Shazier is right in that same size area of some of the best LB's in the game. In fact the average NFL ILB is 6' 230.

So how is Shazier too small?

Not to nit-pick but it's my understanding that Shazier and Farrior are playing two different positions. Timmons is in Farrior's old position and Shazier is in VW's old position. VW is 250. Traditionally it's the "run-stuffing" role. Perhaps his weight has been overblown a bit. However, what's rarely brought up is his difficulty shedding blocks. I'm not saying he never will be able to get better but it is one of his few "warts". The good news is with McClendon at NT he will get plenty of opportunities to improve in that area.


Which before being Williams spot was Larry Foote's, all 6' 230 pounds of him.

Point is, the size doesn't matter. VW was what you would love out of the Buck position, but he got abused bad, especially in the pass game. And gone are the days of one being a "run stuffer" and the other being "coverage". They want both guys to do both so Timmons and Shazier can be left on the field for 3 downs.

Interesting you say "rarely brought up his difficulty shedding blocks" because all along it's said he best attribute was being able to use his extreme athleticism to get free of blockers. Not saying he's great at shedding them, but he's been free enough. Not to mention that if he is getting tied up that's more on McClendon not doing his job tying up 2 blockers.

Again not to nit-pick but Foote was bigger than 230 for us. He was pushing 240. But close enough and I mentioned it may be overblown. I don't care how athletic he is, he showed difficulty in college getting off of blocks. I agree it's McClendon's job to eat up those blocks. This is something he has not shown he can do. Thus the previous statement. I feel like I pointed out the Catch-22 with having VW out there. He is the better run-stuffer but a weak link in passing downs. So pick your poison. They elected to have Shazier. Which is fine. But the combo of having a NT that does not attract two playing in front of a ILB that has trouble getting off blocks could make for a very busy Troy. If an offense elects to go that route. As for the "Size doesn't matter" comment, I'm leaving it alone as it's way to easy and beneath me Wink
_________________

CKSteeler wrote:
And no, truth is not a 'fact.' Which is why they are two different words.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MightyJoeYoung


Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 2990
Location: Wakefield, England
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shazier is playing in the role that Timmons has been in for the previous seasons.

Timmons has slid over to where VW played last year.
_________________


Thanks to Joe_is_the_best for the sig

"The King Stay the King"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3295
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MightyJoeYoung wrote:
Shazier is playing in the role that Timmons has been in for the previous seasons.

Timmons has slid over to where VW played last year.

Are you sure? I heard differently. That would be the better spot for Shazier (and perhaps Timmons) but usually the call playing comes from that Mack. I assume the play calling duties could move with Timmons to the Buck because Shazier cannot be ready for that role yet.
_________________

CKSteeler wrote:
And no, truth is not a 'fact.' Which is why they are two different words.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wwhickok


Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 14290
Location: Montgomery, PA aka Steeler Nation!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all size, to some degree, absolutely matters. Secondly IMO, Shazjer appears to be a very slender 235, which suggests to me that like Jones, he will lack strength and that is a problem we cannot afford to have.

So it really irks me when another poster fails to see the complexity of what would otherwise look like a minor issue.
_________________


Sig courtesy of IDOG

PSN (PS3) -- wwhickok
Strive to be Leah Strong! May God continue to Bless you Leah Still!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Pittsburgh Steelers All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group