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Cowboys DE Demarcus Lawrence breaks foot!
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Rtnldave


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 2932
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PincheJimmy wrote:
buckwild wrote:
MightyMouse07 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Once again the idea of using multiple high picks to move up and take a player has bitten us in the arse.

It happened with Mo and it is happening now. Probably a few other times but to be honest, I really do not care to research it. All I know is it is a really STUPID thing to do for exactly this reason.

In spite of what others may think, now we are effectively down 2 players not one. We could have grabbed another player in the third round that MAY, just may have been able to contribute this year.

So here we go again, rolling the dice by using multiple picks on one player and come away with nothing to show for it for at least the first 2 months of this year.

But hey, "Next Man Up" and "FIGHT" is something to hang your hat on. Go team. Rah rah.


You seem pretty upset about a rotational guy getting hurt.


Think the Cowboys were looking for him to be more than just a rotational guy especially giving up 2 picks to move up to pick him.


In reality, we only gave up 1 pick for him, not 2. They still got a player that they wanted but it only cost 1 Draft pick, does that make sense to any of you or just me???


We realize that they gave only 1 player other than their draft pick. But the point is when that happens, you are now counting on that 1 player to, not only be great, but also stay healthy. If he dosen't you are now down 2 players, the guy you drafted AND the other possible pick that you traded away.

Like someone else wrote, We could have had Timmy Jernigan AND Kareem Martin.

Right now that would be looking pretty good. Evn 1 of them would look better than no one. That's the point.
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Desperado82


Joined: 20 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rtnldave wrote:
Like someone else wrote, We could have had Timmy Jernigan AND Kareem Martin.

Right now that would be looking pretty good. Evn 1 of them would look better than no one. That's the point.


Even if the staff didn't have Martin pegged as a RDE in this scheme?
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cowboyfanin2890


Joined: 12 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Like someone else wrote, We could have had Timmy Jernigan AND Kareem Martin.

Right now that would be looking pretty good. Evn 1 of them would look better than no one. That's the point.


Even if the staff didn't have Martin pegged as a RDE in this scheme?


More DLineman means more flexibility, less picks means a greater need to hit on the pick. Lawrence could be good but we needed quantity because this draft was deep in talent, if this was a year where there were only 50 players that could contribute it would be understandable but not when the draft is deep.
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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cowboyfanin2890 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Like someone else wrote, We could have had Timmy Jernigan AND Kareem Martin.

Right now that would be looking pretty good. Evn 1 of them would look better than no one. That's the point.


Even if the staff didn't have Martin pegged as a RDE in this scheme?


More DLineman means more flexibility, less picks means a greater need to hit on the pick. Lawrence could be good but we needed quantity because this draft was deep in talent, if this was a year where there were only 50 players that could contribute it would be understandable but not when the draft is deep.


Deep in what sense? It certainly wasn't deep at RDE. The quality guys were Clowney, Ford, Barr and Lawrence. The drop off after that was pretty significant. I, personally, don't view Martin, Crichton, Tuitt, Ealy, etc as RDE.
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cowboyfanin2890


Joined: 12 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyingmonkey30 wrote:
cowboyfanin2890 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Like someone else wrote, We could have had Timmy Jernigan AND Kareem Martin.

Right now that would be looking pretty good. Evn 1 of them would look better than no one. That's the point.


Even if the staff didn't have Martin pegged as a RDE in this scheme?


More DLineman means more flexibility, less picks means a greater need to hit on the pick. Lawrence could be good but we needed quantity because this draft was deep in talent, if this was a year where there were only 50 players that could contribute it would be understandable but not when the draft is deep.


Deep in what sense? It certainly wasn't deep at RDE. The quality guys were Clowney, Ford, Barr and Lawrence. The drop off after that was pretty significant. I, personally, don't view Martin, Crichton, Tuitt, Ealy, etc as RDE.


On our line we need and needed every position including the position now occupied by Melton. Melton is probably safe but then we have 3 other starting positions and a couple rotational guys needed. I understand that at the time we was grasping for a pass rusher but it has bit us just like the Claiborne trade. This team with Romo and Witten does not have 3 years to continue trading extra picks for unknown commodities.
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Desperado82


Joined: 20 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cowboyfanin2890 wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
cowboyfanin2890 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Like someone else wrote, We could have had Timmy Jernigan AND Kareem Martin.

Right now that would be looking pretty good. Evn 1 of them would look better than no one. That's the point.


Even if the staff didn't have Martin pegged as a RDE in this scheme?


More DLineman means more flexibility, less picks means a greater need to hit on the pick. Lawrence could be good but we needed quantity because this draft was deep in talent, if this was a year where there were only 50 players that could contribute it would be understandable but not when the draft is deep.


Deep in what sense? It certainly wasn't deep at RDE. The quality guys were Clowney, Ford, Barr and Lawrence. The drop off after that was pretty significant. I, personally, don't view Martin, Crichton, Tuitt, Ealy, etc as RDE.


On our line we need and needed every position including the position now occupied by Melton. Melton is probably safe but then we have 3 other starting positions and a couple rotational guys needed. I understand that at the time we was grasping for a pass rusher but it has bit us just like the Claiborne trade. This team with Romo and Witten does not have 3 years to continue trading extra picks for unknown commodities.


We had Selvie coming off of an 8 sack season. We had Crawford, who while he has yet to see playing time was a former 3rd round pick for us and the staff viewed him as someone who could play both at LDE and inside as a DT in certain packages. We did not have a viable future option at RDE, even after signing Mincey.

The staff viewed Lawrence as the best remaining RDE in the draft and knew they likely would not be able to sit at #47 and have him there when they went OTC. So, they gave up a 3rd round pick to move up and get their guy. Lawrence is a guy who had no injury history in college, so to get upset over the fact that he is now injured is just stupid. It's not as though they could have predicted this would have happened.
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Rtnldave


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
cowboyfanin2890 wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
cowboyfanin2890 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Like someone else wrote, We could have had Timmy Jernigan AND Kareem Martin.

Right now that would be looking pretty good. Evn 1 of them would look better than no one. That's the point.


Even if the staff didn't have Martin pegged as a RDE in this scheme?


More DLineman means more flexibility, less picks means a greater need to hit on the pick. Lawrence could be good but we needed quantity because this draft was deep in talent, if this was a year where there were only 50 players that could contribute it would be understandable but not when the draft is deep.


Deep in what sense? It certainly wasn't deep at RDE. The quality guys were Clowney, Ford, Barr and Lawrence. The drop off after that was pretty significant. I, personally, don't view Martin, Crichton, Tuitt, Ealy, etc as RDE.


On our line we need and needed every position including the position now occupied by Melton. Melton is probably safe but then we have 3 other starting positions and a couple rotational guys needed. I understand that at the time we was grasping for a pass rusher but it has bit us just like the Claiborne trade. This team with Romo and Witten does not have 3 years to continue trading extra picks for unknown commodities.


We had Selvie coming off of an 8 sack season. We had Crawford, who while he has yet to see playing time was a former 3rd round pick for us and the staff viewed him as someone who could play both at LDE and inside as a DT in certain packages. We did not have a viable future option at RDE, even after signing Mincey.

The staff viewed Lawrence as the best remaining RDE in the draft and knew they likely would not be able to sit at #47 and have him there when they went OTC. So, they gave up a 3rd round pick to move up and get their guy. Lawrence is a guy who had no injury history in college, so to get upset over the fact that he is now injured is just stupid. It's not as though they could have predicted this would have happened.


Ugh! It's not about predicting an injury. NOBODY can do that! But by giving up the opportunity to draft 2 players at positions of dire need, in what was, a VERY deep draft at those positions, you simply CANNOT afford to lose opportunities to get depth by trading 2 picks for 1 player. And this injury is ONE of the main reasons why. Not the only reason, but certainley a big one. And given this teams luck with injury lately, it was a big risk.
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rtnldave wrote:
Ugh! It's not about predicting an injury. NOBODY can do that! But by giving up the opportunity to draft 2 players at positions of dire need, in what was, a VERY deep draft at those positions, you simply CANNOT afford to lose opportunities to get depth by trading 2 picks for 1 player. And this injury is ONE of the main reasons why. Not the only reason, but certainley a big one. And given this teams luck with injury lately, it was a big risk.


Who's to say they would have drafted two DL with both picks? Who's to say that whoever they took with that 3rd round pick doesn't bust and you're left with one player anyway - and one that may not be as good as the player you traded up to get?

Remember the 2009 draft? I remember a lot of people complaining that we didn't trade up to get Max Unger and instead traded down to get more picks. And what did we end up with? Not one single player from that draft is left on the team.

Quantity doesn't always equal quality. Especially when most of you guys complain that Jerry and the coaches don't know what they're doing when it comes to the draft anyway.
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cowboyfanin2890


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Ugh! It's not about predicting an injury. NOBODY can do that! But by giving up the opportunity to draft 2 players at positions of dire need, in what was, a VERY deep draft at those positions, you simply CANNOT afford to lose opportunities to get depth by trading 2 picks for 1 player. And this injury is ONE of the main reasons why. Not the only reason, but certainley a big one. And given this teams luck with injury lately, it was a big risk.


Who's to say they would have drafted two DL with both picks? Who's to say that whoever they took with that 3rd round pick doesn't bust and you're left with one player anyway - and one that may not be as good as the player you traded up to get?

Remember the 2009 draft? I remember a lot of people complaining that we didn't trade up to get Max Unger and instead traded down to get more picks. And what did we end up with? Not one single player from that draft is left on the team.

Quantity doesn't always equal quality. Especially when most of you guys complain that Jerry and the coaches don't know what they're doing when it comes to the draft anyway.



Trading up has hurt us more times than it has worked out, quantity means that your scouts who get paid have to produce.
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Northland


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's like the analysis Sturm did. Even the teams with a great track record of drafting miss on picks. I'm not saying Lawrence is a miss in any way shape or form. But these solid drafting clubs go into the draft with a mindset of quantity. Let's have as many eggs in our basket as possible. We may break a few but we've got others to replace those if you will. When you deplete the eggs in your basket, as is the Cowboys draft strategy, then you better hit the ball out of the park with the limited picks you have. Now Lawrence may very well become a very good player. But for now he is out and missing valuable reps. And the strategy of trading up, and sacrificing valuable draft picks to move up just does not look well. And the Cowboys recent track record of sacrificing picks to move up has not paid off with one exception: Dez Bryant.

Nobody can predict injuries and I don't think anyone is saying see I told you Lawrence would get hurt. But his loss is magnified even more by the price paid to acquire him, and by the needs the team still has. Hold onto your picks. They are too valuable to trade away when you are a club mired in mediocrity with multiple needs.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love Strum. And I don't discount what he advocates. And he even acknowledges that all teams DO move up to get players they covet.

But if the choice before us is on the one hand a premier player we really want or a handful of role players/special teamers - I know where I stand. I don't need history to repeat itself, I learned my lesson.
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jernigan appears to be dealing with a back injury...word out of Panthers camp is that Kony Ealy has been less than impressive.

I know those were two guys a lot of people here wanted....
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cromagnum


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This injury is a killer as I was really high in this kid. I really don't know where the sacks are going to come from.
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Northland


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can agree to disagree on the philosophy of trading up for the player you covet vs. holding onto to your draft picks. But can we agree on the following: When you trade up and sacrifice draft choices to do so, the player you trade up for had better be a solid choice?

Off the top of my head in recent years we have traded up for Anthony Spencer, Mike Jenkins, Sean Lee, Morris Claiborne, Demarcus Lawrence, and we gave away picks for Roy Williams. Would anyone like a "do over" or is anyone bold enough to defend these moves?

We could have held onto our picks and there is no guarantee that we would've been successful wth them. The draft is a gamble. We could've crapped the bed with the picks we held onto. But we know our results from trading up. We have one all world WR in Bryant. The rest are players released, often injured, or who have yet to reach potential. That does not justify trading up.
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Superfluous


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northland wrote:
We can agree to disagree on the philosophy of trading up for the player you covet vs. holding onto to your draft picks. But can we agree on the following: When you trade up and sacrifice draft choices to do so, the player you trade up for had better be a solid choice?

Off the top of my head in recent years we have traded up for Anthony Spencer, Mike Jenkins, Sean Lee, Morris Claiborne, Demarcus Lawrence, and we gave away picks for Roy Williams. Would anyone like a "do over" or is anyone bold enough to defend these moves?

We could have held onto our picks and there is no guarantee that we would've been successful wth them. The draft is a gamble. We could've crapped the bed with the picks we held onto. But we know our results from trading up. We have one all world WR in Bryant. The rest are players released, often injured, or who have yet to reach potential. That does not justify trading up.


Anthony Spencer is good, Sean Lee is great, Claiborne is too early to tell, Lawrence is way too early to tell, and Roy wasn't a trade up. Mike Jenkins was so so.
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