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Cowboys DE Demarcus Lawrence breaks foot!
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Superfluous


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rtnldave wrote:
Once again the idea of using multiple high picks to move up and take a player has bitten us in the arse.

It happened with Mo and it is happening now. Probably a few other times but to be honest, I really do not care to research it. All I know is it is a really STUPID thing to do for exactly this reason.

In spite of what others may think, now we are effectively down 2 players not one. We could have grabbed another player in the third round that MAY, just may have been able to contribute this year.

So here we go again, rolling the dice by using multiple picks on one player and come away with nothing to show for it for at least the first 2 months of this year.

But hey, "Next Man Up" and "FIGHT" is something to hang your hat on. Go team. Rah rah.


sounds like you're regurgitating Bob Sturm.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superfluous wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Once again the idea of using multiple high picks to move up and take a player has bitten us in the arse.

It happened with Mo and it is happening now. Probably a few other times but to be honest, I really do not care to research it. All I know is it is a really STUPID thing to do for exactly this reason.

In spite of what others may think, now we are effectively down 2 players not one. We could have grabbed another player in the third round that MAY, just may have been able to contribute this year.

So here we go again, rolling the dice by using multiple picks on one player and come away with nothing to show for it for at least the first 2 months of this year.

But hey, "Next Man Up" and "FIGHT" is something to hang your hat on. Go team. Rah rah.


sounds like you're regurgitating Bob Sturm.


I wish he'd be as rational as Strum. He's the man.

It has been said all along that this draft hinges not on our 1st pick but on our 2nd pick. Even still a rookie year will not make or break this draft.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still would've preferred Timmy Jernigan and Kareem Martin to Demarcus Lawrence.
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Northland


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
MightyMouse07 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Once again the idea of using multiple high picks to move up and take a player has bitten us in the arse.

It happened with Mo and it is happening now. Probably a few other times but to be honest, I really do not care to research it. All I know is it is a really STUPID thing to do for exactly this reason.

In spite of what others may think, now we are effectively down 2 players not one. We could have grabbed another player in the third round that MAY, just may have been able to contribute this year.

So here we go again, rolling the dice by using multiple picks on one player and come away with nothing to show for it for at least the first 2 months of this year.

But hey, "Next Man Up" and "FIGHT" is something to hang your hat on. Go team. Rah rah.


You seem pretty upset about a rotational guy getting hurt.


But we gave up two picks to get him. Jerry should have seen he was going to get hurt. For shame.


There is nothing wrong with regurgitating Sturm. I think Sturm provides pretty rational insight.
I don't think anyone is saying shame on Jerry for not being able to see the future and realize Lawrence was going to get hurt so why make the trade. I get the sarcasm of the comment.
But Dave is revisiting an interesting argument about the Cowboys drafting philosophy which I believe in 6 of the last 8 years has seen us sacrifice picks to move up. The only time this has paid off is for Dez Bryant.
So why does a team that is mired in mediocrity, who has multiple needs, sacrifice draft picks to acquire the shiny toy it so covets when this strategy has not worked? That's the issue. And when the shiny toy, in this case Lawrence, gets hurt, it makes the reality of giving up picks hurt even more.
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WizardHawk


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northland wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
MightyMouse07 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Once again the idea of using multiple high picks to move up and take a player has bitten us in the arse.

It happened with Mo and it is happening now. Probably a few other times but to be honest, I really do not care to research it. All I know is it is a really STUPID thing to do for exactly this reason.

In spite of what others may think, now we are effectively down 2 players not one. We could have grabbed another player in the third round that MAY, just may have been able to contribute this year.

So here we go again, rolling the dice by using multiple picks on one player and come away with nothing to show for it for at least the first 2 months of this year.

But hey, "Next Man Up" and "FIGHT" is something to hang your hat on. Go team. Rah rah.


You seem pretty upset about a rotational guy getting hurt.


But we gave up two picks to get him. Jerry should have seen he was going to get hurt. For shame.


There is nothing wrong with regurgitating Sturm. I think Sturm provides pretty rational insight.
I don't think anyone is saying shame on Jerry for not being able to see the future and realize Lawrence was going to get hurt so why make the trade. I get the sarcasm of the comment.
But Dave is revisiting an interesting argument about the Cowboys drafting philosophy which I believe in 6 of the last 8 years has seen us sacrifice picks to move up. The only time this has paid off is for Dez Bryant.
So why does a team that is mired in mediocrity, who has multiple needs, sacrifice draft picks to acquire the shiny toy it so covets when this strategy has not worked? That's the issue. And when the shiny toy, in this case Lawrence, gets hurt, it makes the reality of giving up picks hurt even more.


That's the million dollar question. Haven't searched it, but I'd like to know how many other NFL teams have done with the same regularity as Dallas has. I would bet it's not very many, if at all and I would bet a vast majority would say it's a very bad practice.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is this team has already been snake bitten by choosing quantity over quality.

I'd rather the team set it's goal on a player it wants and be aggressive in attaining that player rather than carpet-bomb the draft and hope something sticks.

It is a shame Lawbringer got hurt. He will lose vital reps which are instrumental in a rookie year. But if you already didn't think we stood a chance this year - I don't think to can cast the dye on the pick just yet.
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Northland


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WizardHawk wrote:
Northland wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
MightyMouse07 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Once again the idea of using multiple high picks to move up and take a player has bitten us in the arse.

It happened with Mo and it is happening now. Probably a few other times but to be honest, I really do not care to research it. All I know is it is a really STUPID thing to do for exactly this reason.

In spite of what others may think, now we are effectively down 2 players not one. We could have grabbed another player in the third round that MAY, just may have been able to contribute this year.

So here we go again, rolling the dice by using multiple picks on one player and come away with nothing to show for it for at least the first 2 months of this year.

But hey, "Next Man Up" and "FIGHT" is something to hang your hat on. Go team. Rah rah.


You seem pretty upset about a rotational guy getting hurt.


But we gave up two picks to get him. Jerry should have seen he was going to get hurt. For shame.


There is nothing wrong with regurgitating Sturm. I think Sturm provides pretty rational insight.
I don't think anyone is saying shame on Jerry for not being able to see the future and realize Lawrence was going to get hurt so why make the trade. I get the sarcasm of the comment.
But Dave is revisiting an interesting argument about the Cowboys drafting philosophy which I believe in 6 of the last 8 years has seen us sacrifice picks to move up. The only time this has paid off is for Dez Bryant.
So why does a team that is mired in mediocrity, who has multiple needs, sacrifice draft picks to acquire the shiny toy it so covets when this strategy has not worked? That's the issue. And when the shiny toy, in this case Lawrence, gets hurt, it makes the reality of giving up picks hurt even more.


That's the million dollar question. Haven't searched it, but I'd like to know how many other NFL teams have done with the same regularity as Dallas has. I would bet it's not very many, if at all and I would bet a vast majority would say it's a very bad practice.


Sturm makes some good points. Even the best teams whiff on draft picks but they take a quanitity, or shotgun approach to the draft vs a sniper approach.

http://sturminator.blogspot.com/

Well, from this spot, it appears that we have learned that the best teams in drafting over the last NFL generation: Baltimore, Seattle, San Francisco, Green Bay, New England, Pittsburgh all seem to come up when we have these conversations - all have a few things in common. It starts with the fact that everyone of them make mistakes. They make a lot of mistakes. They spend high picks on guys who fail and don't even make the team. They think they have gold when in reality they don't. They swing as hard as they can and they miss.

So, how are they still able to be thought of as one of the best drafting teams in the business if they are making these mistakes?

Numbers. They throw numbers at the problem. They use the shotgun approach, rather than the sniper tactics. You can use your precision shooting, we are going to follow a process and a prototype for all of our picks and we are just going to grab the highest candidate who falls to our spot, rinse, and repeat.

Now, this certainly doesn't mean that those teams aren't trading up when the time is right. They all do. It also doesn't mean that they aren't trading for veteran players with draft picks or whiffing altogether on a move where they swung too hard. But, it does know that they realize that the batting average is not the whole story. Sometimes, the number of at bats is what truly matters.
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GeneralDissaray


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Our OL are monsters. Jesus, they even kill our own guys!

This actually really sucks for him. While he likely would have been a role player (and frankly, still can come back in the season and be that) the fact he will miss out on a vital camp as a rookie is what will stunt his early development.

Shame.


I think they know we all wanted the guy below, and they're trying to live up to his example.


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GeneralDissaray


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
I still would've preferred Timmy Jernigan and Kareem Martin to Demarcus Lawrence.


Agree. I think moving up to target specific players is for teams that are good, or a few players away. We need too many players on D to be moving up, and throwing away picks.
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Rtnldave


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superfluous wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Once again the idea of using multiple high picks to move up and take a player has bitten us in the arse.

It happened with Mo and it is happening now. Probably a few other times but to be honest, I really do not care to research it. All I know is it is a really STUPID thing to do for exactly this reason.

In spite of what others may think, now we are effectively down 2 players not one. We could have grabbed another player in the third round that MAY, just may have been able to contribute this year.

So here we go again, rolling the dice by using multiple picks on one player and come away with nothing to show for it for at least the first 2 months of this year.

But hey, "Next Man Up" and "FIGHT" is something to hang your hat on. Go team. Rah rah.


sounds like you're regurgitating Bob Sturm.



Don't know who he is. However, one of the good things about making a "ridiculous statement" is that it is rarely ever forgotten. With that said, perhaps you recall my "walk on water" comment when we traded away our 2nd to move up and get Mo Claiborne?

Yeah, I thought it was a stupid move then, and I didn't care for this year's move either.
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Rtnldave


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northland wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
MightyMouse07 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Once again the idea of using multiple high picks to move up and take a player has bitten us in the arse.

It happened with Mo and it is happening now. Probably a few other times but to be honest, I really do not care to research it. All I know is it is a really STUPID thing to do for exactly this reason.

In spite of what others may think, now we are effectively down 2 players not one. We could have grabbed another player in the third round that MAY, just may have been able to contribute this year.

So here we go again, rolling the dice by using multiple picks on one player and come away with nothing to show for it for at least the first 2 months of this year.

But hey, "Next Man Up" and "FIGHT" is something to hang your hat on. Go team. Rah rah.


You seem pretty upset about a rotational guy getting hurt.


But we gave up two picks to get him. Jerry should have seen he was going to get hurt. For shame.


There is nothing wrong with regurgitating Sturm. I think Sturm provides pretty rational insight.
I don't think anyone is saying shame on Jerry for not being able to see the future and realize Lawrence was going to get hurt so why make the trade. I get the sarcasm of the comment.
But Dave is revisiting an interesting argument about the Cowboys drafting philosophy which I believe in 6 of the last 8 years has seen us sacrifice picks to move up. The only time this has paid off is for Dez Bryant.
So why does a team that is mired in mediocrity, who has multiple needs, sacrifice draft picks to acquire the shiny toy it so covets when this strategy has not worked? That's the issue. And when the shiny toy, in this case Lawrence, gets hurt, it makes the reality of giving up picks hurt even more.


BINGO! Spot on North. I appreciate the clarity. Wink
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Rtnldave


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MightyMouse07 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
buckwild wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
MightyMouse07 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Once again the idea of using multiple high picks to move up and take a player has bitten us in the arse.

It happened with Mo and it is happening now. Probably a few other times but to be honest, I really do not care to research it. All I know is it is a really STUPID thing to do for exactly this reason.

In spite of what others may think, now we are effectively down 2 players not one. We could have grabbed another player in the third round that MAY, just may have been able to contribute this year.

So here we go again, rolling the dice by using multiple picks on one player and come away with nothing to show for it for at least the first 2 months of this year.

But hey, "Next Man Up" and "FIGHT" is something to hang your hat on. Go team. Rah rah.


You seem pretty upset about a rotational guy getting hurt.


But we gave up two picks to get him. Jerry should have seen he was going to get hurt. For shame.


Guess Jerry's deal with the devil didn't include psychic powers or he would have seen this coming. Evil or Very Mad


It dosen't have to. He made the same exact mistake trading up for Claiborne and look how that turned out.

You know, 8-8 for three consecutive years isn't a coincidence. It is a result of continuosly making the same bad mistakes.

He trades up multiple high picks to grab 1 player when he could have had 2. He has done this before and it backfired.

He drafts players with an injury history or players that are already injured and cannot compete right away.

1. Chris Canty
2. Bruce Carter
3. DeMarco Murray
4. Sean Lee

To name a few. And then you wonder why these guys are always hurt every year for some significant amount of time.

Look, I get that injuries are a part of the game and other teams are dealing with losses already as well. I get that. What I don't like is that this FO gives multiple picks away to get 1 player. And if/when that player goes down, you are, theoretically, down 2 players because that is what you gave up to get him.

I said it before and I will say it again, the dynasty of the 90's wasn't built by trading away picks, it was built by stockpiling them. Don't understand why nobody gets this???? Rolling Eyes


Laughing

Lawrence doesn't have any history of being injured!!!! It was one freak injury accident where he landed on his foot wrong and a bone broke. How is anyone supposed to know something like that would happen?

Stockpiling picks doesn't always work either. If you want a superior player you go up and get him. What do you say if Claiborne turns into a Top 5 CB? I bet you wouldn't care about trading up to get him. They messed up by changing out of schemes and going back and forth. That hurts your players when they cant get into a routine or are put into situations that doesn't properly use their skills.



If you notice the names I listed, Lawrence isn't on there. You simply assumed that I was speaking of him. The post about drafting often injured players was just another point as to how the FO sometime makes poor decisons when drafting.

As for the "Bob Sturm" comment-not yours- It seems someone else shares your sentiment. But they did do an excellent job of researching the players that we traded up to get and how it almost always backfired on us. Which was the main point of my original post to begin with. Anyway, here it is.

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2014/7/31/5952829/draft-economics-trading-up-bad-investment-dallas-cowboys-demarcus-lawrence-morris-claiborne
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Northland


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2014/7/31/5952829/draft-economics-trading-up-bad-investment-dallas-cowboys-demarcus-lawrence-morris-claiborne

Good find Dave. Best line from the article as follows:

Roy Williams: Pardon me while I jab a fork into my eye.
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Rtnldave


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northland wrote:
http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2014/7/31/5952829/draft-economics-trading-up-bad-investment-dallas-cowboys-demarcus-lawrence-morris-claiborne

Good find Dave. Best line from the article as follows:

Roy Williams: Pardon me while I jab a fork into my eye.


LOL, Yeah, that busted me up!
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PincheJimmy


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buckwild wrote:
MightyMouse07 wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Once again the idea of using multiple high picks to move up and take a player has bitten us in the arse.

It happened with Mo and it is happening now. Probably a few other times but to be honest, I really do not care to research it. All I know is it is a really STUPID thing to do for exactly this reason.

In spite of what others may think, now we are effectively down 2 players not one. We could have grabbed another player in the third round that MAY, just may have been able to contribute this year.

So here we go again, rolling the dice by using multiple picks on one player and come away with nothing to show for it for at least the first 2 months of this year.

But hey, "Next Man Up" and "FIGHT" is something to hang your hat on. Go team. Rah rah.


You seem pretty upset about a rotational guy getting hurt.


Think the Cowboys were looking for him to be more than just a rotational guy especially giving up 2 picks to move up to pick him.


In reality, we only gave up 1 pick for him, not 2. They still got a player that they wanted but it only cost 1 Draft pick, does that make sense to any of you or just me???
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