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Patrick Peterson signs 5 year extension(70 million total)
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KingOfTheDot


Joined: 15 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perfundle wrote:
11sanchez11 wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:


Passer Rating allowed is a stupid stat. But a CB allowing 6 TDs in a season, let alone in back to back seasons, shouldn't be allowed to be called "Elite"... Because Peterson isn't, and this is why the Cardinals can't have nice things
Silly. Did you watch him give up the TDs btw? I can recall 4-5 of them off the top of my head and some of them he didn't just get beat by his man. A couple were miscommunications on pick plays, Calvin broke one because PP thought Dansby intercepted the pass, BMarsh made a great play off a broken play on the sidelines, etc. Not really indicative of his coverage ability.

Being distracted by your teammate undercutting the route is no excuse at all. He could've easily stopped Johnson for a 7-yard gain if he'd just paid attention to his assignment. It's not like he could've helped Dansby even if he did intercept it, considering the jump Dansby got.



On Johnson's other touchdown, which falls under your miscommunication on a pick play, I don't see any miscommunication at all, just tentativeness by Peterson.



first one- is a zone trap designed perfectly except Stafford makes a great throw to get into the window, thats all on PP

second one- perfectly executed play by Detroit, PP couldn't do much there
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reckless123


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aside from that Calvin sprint, I think Patrick's touchdowns allowed were mostly on the goal line. And given how easy penalties are given in the redzone and how difficult it is to defend receivers, Im not gonna hold it against him.

The second TD that PP allowed vs Calvin is just good execution by the lions. He wasnt getting there not matter what he did, especially when its Calvin.
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mtdowner


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaqOptic wrote:
TheMachONE wrote:

And yea I'm sorry but you're misinformed so it's hard for your opinion to have any weight to me. I'm not arguing about Ike Taylor's skills because frankly I don't watch the Steelers. You don't watch the Cardinals much so quit trying to act like you know what you're talking about.


Again, this is the premise of your entire argument and for the third time... you're wrong.


I'm sure you've seen your fair share of Cards games.

But if you're evaluating PP as a corner purely off the # of TD's he surrendered, you need to look at the context. Just like how most other stats are pointless without context.

Andre Johnson against the Cardinals had 5 catches for 37 yards and 2 TDs.
PP shuts him down basically all game but AJ makes a couple ridiculous catches for TDs. One for 7 yards and the other for 5 yards. It's not PP's fault the Texans were in position to score and AJ made some highlight catches. For the majority of the game he did his job against an elite WR.

Here's a link to the catches:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/0ap2000000279846/Andre-Johnson-s-pretty-pair-of-TD-catches

PP had very little to do with the 14 points put on the board by the Texans that day. Just one example of how CB TD stats taken out of context aren't a fair evaluation tool.
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LuckyNumber11


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I just want to know this from Blaq and Perfundle and anyone else us Cardinals fans seem to be arguing with. Where does Peterson rank as a corner to you?
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malak1


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nvm
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Perfundle


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LuckyNumber11 wrote:
Ok I just want to know this from Blaq and Perfundle and anyone else us Cardinals fans seem to be arguing with. Where does Peterson rank as a corner to you?

Clearly below Sherman and Revis, but then, so is everyone else. Beyond that the corners are pretty closely clustered and it's difficult to rank them.
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Perfundle


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mtdowner wrote:
Andre Johnson against the Cardinals had 5 catches for 37 yards and 2 TDs.
PP shuts him down basically all game but AJ makes a couple ridiculous catches for TDs.

True enough, but...
Quote:
It's not PP's fault the Texans were in position to score and AJ made some highlight catches.

Peterson gave up this play a few plays before Johnson's first touchdown:



Also, if you want to talk about context, then the receivers that had Peterson beat but then dropped the pass, or were missed by the QB have to also be included. For instance, Steve Smith beats Peterson here, but dropped the TD:

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Nihc


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peterson should be compared to Haden, Talib, and Grimes. Not Revis and Sherman.
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mtdowner


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perfundle wrote:
Peterson gave up this play a few plays before Johnson's first touchdown:


Fair enough. He made a mistake in zone coverage and gave up a catch to the FB. That's an area he can work on. I'm more impressed with his pure coverage skills and his ability to lockdown #1 WRs.

Quote:
Also, if you want to talk about context, then the receivers that had Peterson beat but then dropped the pass, or were missed by the QB have to also be included. For instance, Steve Smith beats Peterson here, but dropped the TD:

"Ifs" aren't really something I would factor into context.

But that pick play is almost impossible to defend without some sort of inside help from a LB or S.
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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaqOptic wrote:
11sanchez11 wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:


Passer Rating allowed is a stupid stat. But a CB allowing 6 TDs in a season, let alone in back to back seasons, shouldn't be allowed to be called "Elite"... Because Peterson isn't, and this is why the Cardinals can't have nice things
Silly. Did you watch him give up the TDs btw? I can recall 4-5 of them off the top of my head and some of them he didn't just get beat by his man. A couple were miscommunications on pick plays, Calvin broke one because PP thought Dansby intercepted the pass, BMarsh made a great play off a broken play on the sidelines, etc. Not really indicative of his coverage ability.

I feel like people who actually watch the Cards know how important he is to our defense, there's a reason why we can blitz so much (which is super important because we don't have any pure passrushers) and not lose anything in pass coverage. And then there's people who watch less than 10% of his plays...


Doesn't matter the circumstances... You allow scores and you lose games... Thinking a teammate picked it so allowing a TD?! Terrible excuse.

As someone who lived through Ike Taylor from '05 to '13 I can tell the difference between elite CB play and terrible CB play. Because he's done both. And his play, alongside DeAngelo Hall's early in his career, cemented that 6 TD rule for me and it's held up every single time in gauging CBs... and the eye test for Peterson tells me he fails the 6 TD rule.


Eh. You're going at this way too simply. I remember the year everyone parroted how Brandon Flowers allowed 9 TDs or something like that. But it was PFF. About half really weren't on him (I think I counted 4.5 or 5.5 to actually being his fault, with one of those, obviously, being split about even.) But PFF, in man coverage, blames the guy in man regardless of situation.

I'm not saying which side I'm on here, because of PP's TDs, I only recall Detroit's vividly off the top of my head. But you're better than a pretty poor, 6 TDs, he's bad, no questions, no excuses, argument.

I mean heck, a guy who has allowed 6 TDs each of the past two years is your 4th best CB (as of about 2 months ago, anyway.)
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LuckyNumber11


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no stat that fairly represents a corner's ability. Eye test is all that really works, IMO. And I'll admit I didn't see a lot of Revis last year but what I did see I wasn't as impressed as I was when watching Haden, Peterson or Sherman (All of whom I watched much more of) Patrick has some days where nothing works, I will give everyone that. Case and point when we played the Titans. He had a horrible game. But when he is on his game I don't think anyone is better than him. Consistency isn't his strong suit, but he has by far the highest ceiling out of those top 4. (who I think is the clear cut top 4)

And Patrick was already set to make 10 million this year so it's not like this is some absurd number that's going to absolutely destroy our cap. He was a making a solid amount already. Only 4 million more.
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nnivolcm wrote:
This almost makes me glad the Lions have garbage CBs.

Laughing

Crying or Very sad


Laughing Definitely!
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coors


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's tons of money, but PP is worth it. If that's what it would take to sign him in Atlanta, I'd give it to him immediately.
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RuskieTitan


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recall Kendall Wright torched him in 1on1 when we played, and Wright isn't exactly elite. Still, PP is extremely talented... but the Cards overpaid.
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11sanchez11


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coors wrote:
that's tons of money, but PP is worth it. If that's what it would take to sign him in Atlanta, I'd give it to him immediately.
idk if he's worth it right now but he's not getting the extension for two more years. If continues getting better like he has so far, he'll definitely be worth it by the time it kicks in.
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