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Josh Gordon Drug Test Appeal
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mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 44808
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:08 pm    Post subject: Josh Gordon Drug Test Appeal Reply with quote

Quote:
ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 2m
Still working on story, but bottom line is "A" bottle for Josh Gordon was barely above the limit. "B" bottle was actually BELOW the limit.



http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/PDFs/PlayerDevelopment/2010%20Drug%20Policy.pdf

Quote:
Test of Split Sample: Any player Testing positive from the “A”
bottle of his split sample may, within two days of receiving
notification of his Positive Test, ask the Medical Advisor for a Test
of the other portion of his specimen from the “B” bottle.
Notwithstanding the foregoing, “B” bottle testing shall not be
afforded to players who provide a dilute specimen that results in a
dilute warning pursuant to Appendix A-1. The “B” bottle Test is
to be performed within ten working days of such request. The
player may not be present at the “B” bottle Test, but, at his own
expense, he may be represented at the “B” bottle Test by a
qualified toxicologist not affiliated with a commercial laboratory.
The “B” bottle Test will be performed at the same laboratory that
did the original Test. The “B” bottle Test need only show that the
substance, revealed in the “A” bottle Test, is evident to the “limits
of detection” to confirm the results of the “A” bottle Test


What does this mean? I have no idea. Sure looks like its possible he doesnt get suspended. Will link to actual story from PFT.
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mistakebytehlak


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

note: doesn't get suspended for the marijuana. The DUI, I'm guessing will cause a different suspension at some point during the year.
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mistakebytehlak


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI:
limits for marijuana (and marijuana byproducts) in NFL: 15 mg/nl
limits for marijuana (and marijuana byproducts) as per WADA: 150 mg/nl
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keysersoze3421


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watch him pass the test and Goodell suspend him for marijuana use for like 4 games because it violates the player conduct policy.
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TheKillerNacho


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keysersoze3421 wrote:
Watch him pass the test and Goodell suspend him for marijuana use for like 4 games because it violates the player conduct policy.


Passing the test is a violation of player conduct now? Laughing
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mistakebytehlak


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/29/gordons-appeal-focuses-on-disparity-between-a-and-b-bottle-tests/

Quote:
ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 12m
Josh Gordon's "A" bottle = 16 ng/ml. "B" bottle = 13.6 ng/ml. Limit = 15 ng/ml. End result? One-year ban. http://wp.me/p14QSB-9wLV
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mistakebytehlak


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
According to the source, Gordon has passed at least 70 drug tests. One test barely generated a positive. And but for the 50-50 luck of the draw, it would have been a negative.


Quote:
But because the “A” bottle was labeled “A” and not “B” and because the “B” bottle was labeled “B” and not “A”, the end result is a positive and a minimum one-year banishment from the NFL. Flip the bottles when it’s time to apply the labels, and Gordon isn’t facing a suspension.

Setting aside (for now) my lingering concerns about the NFL policing the use of marijuana by players, the Draconian provisions of a program that subjects a player to up to 10 tests per month and will remove a Stage III player from the workforce for at least a full year if he failed a single test over the balance of his career, and the NFL’s apparent unwillingness to subject Colts owner Jim Irsay to this same testing protocol and standard, Josh Gordon will be treated extremely unfairly if the policy is strictly applied to him as it is written.


from the above story
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TheKillerNacho


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's with the discrepancy between the two bottles? My wife works with this kind of stuff, she might now so I'll ask her later... but it seems to me if the two bottles came from the same day, shouldn't they be more or less the same? Or is one bottle from a different day?

Either way, clearly Gordon was using a banned substance... the B test seems to only be to confirm the A test's result of positive (since I would imagine in some cases a test might result in a false positive of some sort... maybe from inhaling 2nd hand marijuana smoke?). Gordon may have had a chance to dodge a bullet here if the B bottle was the A bottle and vice-versa, but it seems pretty clear he was violating the policy from both of the tests combined. If he gets off, it would probably be due to a technicality. Gordon is still stupid for playing with fire here... what was he doing using even a LITTLE bit when he knows he's getting drug tested several times a month??

Of course, I'd like to know sooner than later regardless as I only have a couple more weeks to decide to keep him in fantasy or not... Brick wall
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Last edited by TheKillerNacho on Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mistakebytehlak


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheKillerNacho wrote:
What's with the discrepancy between the two bottles? My wife works with this kind of stuff, she might now so I'll ask her later... but it seems to me if the two bottles came from the same day, shouldn't they be more or less the same? Or is one bottle from a different day?


Quote:
Collection of Sample: At the time of his Test, the player will
furnish a urine specimen to an authorized specimen collector,
which specimen shall be split into an “A” bottle and a “B” bottle.
To prevent evasive conduct, all specimens will be collected under
observation. Specimens will be shipped in collection bottles sealed
with tamper-resistant seals. All bottles will be identified by a
control identification number, not by the player’s name. The player
will be asked to witness the entire procedure and then to sign the
donor’s statement on the chain-of-custody form. For more detailed
information, refer to Appendix A (“Testing Procedures”).


from the drug policy referenced above
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TheKillerNacho


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:
TheKillerNacho wrote:
What's with the discrepancy between the two bottles? My wife works with this kind of stuff, she might now so I'll ask her later... but it seems to me if the two bottles came from the same day, shouldn't they be more or less the same? Or is one bottle from a different day?


Quote:
Collection of Sample: At the time of his Test, the player will
furnish a urine specimen to an authorized specimen collector,
which specimen shall be split into an “A” bottle and a “B” bottle.
To prevent evasive conduct, all specimens will be collected under
observation. Specimens will be shipped in collection bottles sealed
with tamper-resistant seals. All bottles will be identified by a
control identification number, not by the player’s name. The player
will be asked to witness the entire procedure and then to sign the
donor’s statement on the chain-of-custody form. For more detailed
information, refer to Appendix A (“Testing Procedures”).


from the drug policy referenced above


If that's the case, it seems odd to me that the bottles had such a large difference in concentration... Confused
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Nnivolcm


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, in essence, the same sample got two different readings? And if they had tested the B bottle first he would have passed and not even bothered to test the A bottle? That's crazy.
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mistakebytehlak


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheKillerNacho wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
TheKillerNacho wrote:
What's with the discrepancy between the two bottles? My wife works with this kind of stuff, she might now so I'll ask her later... but it seems to me if the two bottles came from the same day, shouldn't they be more or less the same? Or is one bottle from a different day?


Quote:
Collection of Sample: At the time of his Test, the player will
furnish a urine specimen to an authorized specimen collector,
which specimen shall be split into an “A” bottle and a “B” bottle.
To prevent evasive conduct, all specimens will be collected under
observation. Specimens will be shipped in collection bottles sealed
with tamper-resistant seals. All bottles will be identified by a
control identification number, not by the player’s name. The player
will be asked to witness the entire procedure and then to sign the
donor’s statement on the chain-of-custody form. For more detailed
information, refer to Appendix A (“Testing Procedures”).


from the drug policy referenced above


If that's the case, it seems odd to me that the bottles had such a large difference in concentration... Confused


2 billionths of a gram is large to you?
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mistakebytehlak


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nnivolcm wrote:
So, in essence, the same sample got two different readings? And if they had tested the B bottle first he would have passed and not even bothered to test the A bottle? That's crazy.


and if the NFL tested as stringently as the Olympics do, he would have passed with FLYING colors. he was 10% of the legal limit in the Olympics
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TheKillerNacho


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:
TheKillerNacho wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
TheKillerNacho wrote:
What's with the discrepancy between the two bottles? My wife works with this kind of stuff, she might now so I'll ask her later... but it seems to me if the two bottles came from the same day, shouldn't they be more or less the same? Or is one bottle from a different day?


Quote:
Collection of Sample: At the time of his Test, the player will
furnish a urine specimen to an authorized specimen collector,
which specimen shall be split into an “A” bottle and a “B” bottle.
To prevent evasive conduct, all specimens will be collected under
observation. Specimens will be shipped in collection bottles sealed
with tamper-resistant seals. All bottles will be identified by a
control identification number, not by the player’s name. The player
will be asked to witness the entire procedure and then to sign the
donor’s statement on the chain-of-custody form. For more detailed
information, refer to Appendix A (“Testing Procedures”).


from the drug policy referenced above


If that's the case, it seems odd to me that the bottles had such a large difference in concentration... Confused


2 billionths of a gram is large to you?


When a "positive" result is a mere 15 ng/ml I would imagine in context that it's a fairly large difference. Of course I'm not a scientist so I wouldn't know what usual deviance would be (I would imagine it also has to do with the accuracy of the testing instruments itself, too)... although if the normal deviance can be just under 20% of the "limit", it kind of draws into question the validity of the test (talking from a pure statistical standpoint).

I'd be curious to see what kind of chance Gordon has of winning this appeal.
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Last edited by TheKillerNacho on Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nnivolcm


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
So, in essence, the same sample got two different readings? And if they had tested the B bottle first he would have passed and not even bothered to test the A bottle? That's crazy.


and if the NFL tested as stringently as the Olympics do, he would have passed with FLYING colors. he was 10% of the legal limit in the Olympics


Eh, he plays in the NFL, not the Olympics so I don't have much sympathy there because he knew (or should have known) the limit and it appears he went over it, somehow.
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