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Marshawn Lynch expected to hold out.
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JDLefebvre


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SwiftTexan wrote:
JDLefebvre wrote:
Stuff like this is irritating to me. Sign a contract that spells out excatly what you will make year 1, year 2, year 3... so you know what you will make when you sign it...

And holdout half way thru the contract because you want more???

I get that at times owners have more leverage and more power but things like this should not be allowed to happen.

IDC if you outperform your contract! You signed it, own up to it. Don't sign contracts over a year or two if you are going to pull stuff like this.


Think of it like this -
You sign a contract to be the Head of Human Resources for your company and you'll get paid 100k a year for the next 3 years.
Year one is great, you do whatever it is people in HR do.
Year two a couple of people quit and suddenly you're taking on more responsibility, working longer hours with more expectations and goals to be met.
Year three there's a re-structuring and now you're expected to be the head of HR and also the Marketing Director.

Should you still get paid 100K a year? Or should you ask for a raise?
I'm not suggesting Marshawn's situation is like this but your reasoning is flawed. Marshawn signed a front-loaded contract - that's the problem here.



You make a good point and I understand what you are saying. But in your scenario the job responsibilities change, Lynch's job has not changed. I am beinga bit nitpicky but just saying they aren't exactly the same.

NFL contracts need to start having more incentive clauses to maybe keep these things from happening and make both parties happy. That way if you play above expectation you get compensated. People talk about players "outplaying a contract"... the contract isn't based on performance it's based on current worth.

And if a team front loads a contract to where you are getting more than you deserve (not saying this is the case here) but if you are getting more than you deserve in the first few years of the contract than you should not be able to complain about getting less than you deserve in the last few years of the contract.
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SwiftTexan


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDLefebvre wrote:
SwiftTexan wrote:
JDLefebvre wrote:
Stuff like this is irritating to me. Sign a contract that spells out excatly what you will make year 1, year 2, year 3... so you know what you will make when you sign it...

And holdout half way thru the contract because you want more???

I get that at times owners have more leverage and more power but things like this should not be allowed to happen.

IDC if you outperform your contract! You signed it, own up to it. Don't sign contracts over a year or two if you are going to pull stuff like this.


Think of it like this -
You sign a contract to be the Head of Human Resources for your company and you'll get paid 100k a year for the next 3 years.
Year one is great, you do whatever it is people in HR do.
Year two a couple of people quit and suddenly you're taking on more responsibility, working longer hours with more expectations and goals to be met.
Year three there's a re-structuring and now you're expected to be the head of HR and also the Marketing Director.

Should you still get paid 100K a year? Or should you ask for a raise?
I'm not suggesting Marshawn's situation is like this but your reasoning is flawed. Marshawn signed a front-loaded contract - that's the problem here.



You make a good point and I understand what you are saying. But in your scenario the job responsibilities change, Lynch's job has not changed. I am beinga bit nitpicky but just saying they aren't exactly the same.

NFL contracts need to start having more incentive clauses to maybe keep these things from happening and make both parties happy. That way if you play above expectation you get compensated. People talk about players "outplaying a contract"... the contract isn't based on performance it's based on current worth.

And if a team front loads a contract to where you are getting more than you deserve (not saying this is the case here) but if you are getting more than you deserve in the first few years of the contract than you should not be able to complain about getting less than you deserve in the last few years of the contract.


C'Mon! This is the internet! You're supposed to be a troll, bicker with me and call me names. You've let me down JD...

Honestly, if I had to put myself in Lynch's shoes here's my train of thought:
I'm almost 30. There's a good chance I won't be on the team next year based on my current salary expectations. I know 30 year old running backs don't get paid very well in free agency. I better see if I can get paid now!

The worst case scenario is he holds out until Week 3 of the pre-season and comes back disgruntled. Marshawn always kind of seems disgruntled anyway - except when he's eating Skittles on the sidelines. He's a mercurial guy. I doubt this drags on this long anyway but at least it's something to talk about in July.
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Ketchup


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RavensTillIDie wrote:
SoS wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
SoS wrote:
The longer he holds out the longer Christine Michael has to prove he's the best back in Seattle.



U can't believe this, can u? Marshawn is so good



I'm not saying one way or another. But he certainly has that type of ability and it wouldn't surprise Seattle fans if Michael looked better in 2014. Lynch is getting pretty long in the tooth and it's unclear how long he can excel as a pure bruising back with below average burst. Michael has truly elite lateral agility and acceleration.


Everybody loves the backup....until they actually have to perform.
Not everyone has a backup like Michael though either. He has the god given talent to be the best back in the NFL. Much like the Packers when Rodgers was the back up. We didn't know for sure but I know I was really excited to see Rodgers get his chance. Same thing here. I won't be one bit surprised when Michael takes over and he's a top 5 RB.
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Chiefer


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDLefebvre wrote:

IDC if you outperform your contract! You signed it, own up to it. Don't sign contracts over a year or two if you are going to pull stuff like this.

It's a two-way street man.

How often do teams actually honor a full contract? I could easily flip everything you said around into a players perspective.

Brandon Flowers just got cut to save millions for the Chiefs, yet people get pissy when Justin Houston/Jamaal Charles ask for more money.

Don't really understand that line of thinking when the team holds all the cards.

I'll expect players to honor their contracts once teams start doing so. There's no such thing as honor in business though, especially once lawyers/agents start smelling blood in the water.


Last edited by Chiefer on Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JDLefebvre


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SwiftTexan wrote:
C'Mon! This is the internet! You're supposed to be a troll, bicker with me and call me names. You've let me down JD...



Next time! Wink


SwiftTexan wrote:
Honestly, if I had to put myself in Lynch's shoes here's my train of thought:
I'm almost 30. There's a good chance I won't be on the team next year based on my current salary expectations. I know 30 year old running backs don't get paid very well in free agency. I better see if I can get paid now!


Yeah I get it and understand his train of thought.Can't fault the guy for trying to squeeze everything he can out of his ability before his value is gone. My biggest gripe is they sign these BIG contracts and get most their money but when the contract becomes team friendly and cap friendly for the team they complain their salary is less than they feel they deserve. Even though they've already been paid more than what they probably would've made those first years....

anyway... to each their own. Get what you can while you can I guess.
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wwhickok


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketchup wrote:
Not everyone has a backup like Michael though either. He has the god given talent to be the best back in the NFL. Much like the Packers when Rodgers was the back up. We didn't know for sure but I know I was really excited to see Rodgers get his chance. Same thing here. I won't be one bit surprised when Michael takes over and he's a top 5 RB.


I think I understand what you're trying to say, it's just hard to look at the guys I think are the Top 5 RBs in the NFL right now, and it's hard to look at the Best RB in the league right now (AP imo) and say that Michael is going to be better than any of them.
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JDLefebvre


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chiefer wrote:
JDLefebvre wrote:

IDC if you outperform your contract! You signed it, own up to it. Don't sign contracts over a year or two if you are going to pull stuff like this.

It's a two-way street man.

How often do teams actually honor a full contract? I could easily flip everything you said around into a players perspective.

Brandon Flowers just got cut to save millions for the Chiefs, yet people get pissy when Justin Houston/Jamaal Charles ask for more money.

Don't really understand that line of thinking when the team holds all the cards.

I'll expect players to honor their contracts once teams start doing so. There's no such thing as honor in business though, especially once lawyers/agents start smelling blood in the water.



Yeah I guess so. And I agree teams shouldn't be able to cut contracts like they do.

My biggest thing as I've said is when players get front loaded contracts and earn more than they should and then complain when they are now "making" less than they should.
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RavensTillIDie


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketchup wrote:
RavensTillIDie wrote:
SoS wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
SoS wrote:
The longer he holds out the longer Christine Michael has to prove he's the best back in Seattle.



U can't believe this, can u? Marshawn is so good



I'm not saying one way or another. But he certainly has that type of ability and it wouldn't surprise Seattle fans if Michael looked better in 2014. Lynch is getting pretty long in the tooth and it's unclear how long he can excel as a pure bruising back with below average burst. Michael has truly elite lateral agility and acceleration.


Everybody loves the backup....until they actually have to perform.
Not everyone has a backup like Michael though either. He has the god given talent to be the best back in the NFL. Much like the Packers when Rodgers was the back up. We didn't know for sure but I know I was really excited to see Rodgers get his chance. Same thing here. I won't be one bit surprised when Michael takes over and he's a top 5 RB.


Really? I mean, I'm not knocking the guy or trying to short change his ability. But it's one thing to say a high first round pick languishing on the bench has the potential to come in and blow everyone away, but it's a whole 'nother story to say the 62nd pick in a given draft can come in and potentially become the best running back in the league. And again, I'm not knocking the guy cause I don't think he can be a competent starter. I'm merely saying as great as it is to value potential and the unknown, at some point it's silly to write off a proven commodity when it just helped you reach the pinnacle of the sport but a few months prior.
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Chiefer


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDLefebvre wrote:
Chiefer wrote:
JDLefebvre wrote:

IDC if you outperform your contract! You signed it, own up to it. Don't sign contracts over a year or two if you are going to pull stuff like this.

It's a two-way street man.

How often do teams actually honor a full contract? I could easily flip everything you said around into a players perspective.

Brandon Flowers just got cut to save millions for the Chiefs, yet people get pissy when Justin Houston/Jamaal Charles ask for more money.

Don't really understand that line of thinking when the team holds all the cards.

I'll expect players to honor their contracts once teams start doing so. There's no such thing as honor in business though, especially once lawyers/agents start smelling blood in the water.



Yeah I guess so. And I agree teams shouldn't be able to cut contracts like they do.

My biggest thing as I've said is when players get front loaded contracts and earn more than they should and then complain when they are now "making" less than they should.

Only reason Beast Mode is holding out is because he knows the team isn't going to honor the final year of the deal.

The holdout is just a preemptive strike to hopefully make them do so.
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SoS


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RavensTillIDie wrote:
SoS wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
SoS wrote:
The longer he holds out the longer Christine Michael has to prove he's the best back in Seattle.



U can't believe this, can u? Marshawn is so good



I'm not saying one way or another. But he certainly has that type of ability and it wouldn't surprise Seattle fans if Michael looked better in 2014. Lynch is getting pretty long in the tooth and it's unclear how long he can excel as a pure bruising back with below average burst. Michael has truly elite lateral agility and acceleration.


Everybody loves the backup....until they actually have to perform.


Get back to me when Michael becomes the starter.
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RavensTillIDie


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:
RavensTillIDie wrote:
SoS wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
SoS wrote:
The longer he holds out the longer Christine Michael has to prove he's the best back in Seattle.



U can't believe this, can u? Marshawn is so good



I'm not saying one way or another. But he certainly has that type of ability and it wouldn't surprise Seattle fans if Michael looked better in 2014. Lynch is getting pretty long in the tooth and it's unclear how long he can excel as a pure bruising back with below average burst. Michael has truly elite lateral agility and acceleration.


Everybody loves the backup....until they actually have to perform.


Get back to me when Michael becomes the starter.


And what if he falls flat on his face as the starter? Then? Laughing
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SoS


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RavensTillIDie wrote:
SoS wrote:
RavensTillIDie wrote:
SoS wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
SoS wrote:
The longer he holds out the longer Christine Michael has to prove he's the best back in Seattle.



U can't believe this, can u? Marshawn is so good



I'm not saying one way or another. But he certainly has that type of ability and it wouldn't surprise Seattle fans if Michael looked better in 2014. Lynch is getting pretty long in the tooth and it's unclear how long he can excel as a pure bruising back with below average burst. Michael has truly elite lateral agility and acceleration.


Everybody loves the backup....until they actually have to perform.


Get back to me when Michael becomes the starter.


And what if he falls flat on his face as the starter? Then? Laughing


He won't, but even in the event that happens you can get back to me on how wrong I was. There's a better chance he's a top 5 RB in this league than he "falls flat on his face". I don't expect you to buy the hype, but I can confidently tell you that you'll be wrong. I look forward to you getting back to me.
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If I am a starting QB and my back up is Kellen Clemens..i would only have one question...."Turn up for what?"
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RavensTillIDie


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:
RavensTillIDie wrote:
SoS wrote:
RavensTillIDie wrote:
SoS wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
SoS wrote:
The longer he holds out the longer Christine Michael has to prove he's the best back in Seattle.



U can't believe this, can u? Marshawn is so good



I'm not saying one way or another. But he certainly has that type of ability and it wouldn't surprise Seattle fans if Michael looked better in 2014. Lynch is getting pretty long in the tooth and it's unclear how long he can excel as a pure bruising back with below average burst. Michael has truly elite lateral agility and acceleration.


Everybody loves the backup....until they actually have to perform.


Get back to me when Michael becomes the starter.


And what if he falls flat on his face as the starter? Then? Laughing


He won't, but even in the event that happens you can get back to me on how wrong I was. There's a better chance he's a top 5 RB in this league than he "falls flat on his face". I don't expect you to buy the hype, but I can confidently tell you that you'll be wrong. I look forward to you getting back to me.


Honestly, I probably won't care enough to ever get back to you on this. But for the sake of your team, I wish him all the best. Razz
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Typical_Lions


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDLefebvre wrote:
Chiefer wrote:
JDLefebvre wrote:

IDC if you outperform your contract! You signed it, own up to it. Don't sign contracts over a year or two if you are going to pull stuff like this.

It's a two-way street man.

How often do teams actually honor a full contract? I could easily flip everything you said around into a players perspective.

Brandon Flowers just got cut to save millions for the Chiefs, yet people get pissy when Justin Houston/Jamaal Charles ask for more money.

Don't really understand that line of thinking when the team holds all the cards.

I'll expect players to honor their contracts once teams start doing so. There's no such thing as honor in business though, especially once lawyers/agents start smelling blood in the water.



Yeah I guess so. And I agree teams shouldn't be able to cut contracts like they do.

My biggest thing as I've said is when players get front loaded contracts and earn more than they should and then complain when they are now "making" less than they should.


They sign the contracts knowing full well how they often play out. If they do not like the way the contracts are composed then don't sign them.
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JDLefebvre


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Typical_Lions wrote:
They sign the contracts knowing full well how they often play out. If they do not like the way the contracts are composed then don't sign them.



Isn't that what I've been saying?
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