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Ray Rice suspended 2 games
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 23963
Location: Parkville, MD
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rockice_8 wrote:
keysersoze3421 wrote:
Rockice_8 wrote:
Seventh Woods wrote:
The context does not matter, he should not have hit her period. He is a professional football player. The guy is a massive beast who is stronger than most males in society. If a woman is hitting you, grab her in a hug position with both of her arms pinned at her side. There is absolutely no excuse for hitting her whatsoever.


Shocked I had to read two pages before reading this.

Shame on the Baltimore fans in here pushing the self defense argument. There is literally zero reason to punch a woman unconscious. Should have been 8 games at the very least. There is zero chance he feared for his life to warrant any legit self defense argument.

NFL dropped the ball on this one.


Agreed with your general conclusion, but it is worth nothing that successfully establishing self-defense does not require fear for one's life. That standard only applies if deadly force was used.


We don't know the whole story but I don't see deadly force being an issue here. Sure you can probably claim self defense without truly being in a life threatening situation but dragging on unconscious women out of an elevator even if she was getting a bit physical is way beyond what should have happened.

There are a many ways to handle a physical situation with a women and knocking them unconscious without legit fear of life is not one of them.

This suspension does not fit the crime in the least bit.


Do you not believe that she may have became unconscious by way of hitting her head (perhaps against the elevator railing) rather than directly via a blow by Rice? For instance, if in defending himself, he pushed her away, causing her to lose balance (remember, her balance likely wasn't the best anyway due to being intoxicated) and banging her head? Is that not a potential scenario in your eyes?
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 games is enough for Pierce to take his job IMO. If Pierce can stop getting banged up so often, he's a significantly more talented runner at this point. The fact that he had an even worse ypc than Rice last year is deceptive. Rice was smarter about seeing when his line wasn't going to do anything and diving forward for little gain or a minimal loss, while Pierce would lose yards trying to make a play that wasn't there.

With a simpler downhill ZBS and NFL caliber interior lineman, Pierce's efficiency should shoot way back up.
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Legacyof52


Joined: 14 Nov 2013
Posts: 260
Location: far from home
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rockice_8 wrote:
keysersoze3421 wrote:
Rockice_8 wrote:
Seventh Woods wrote:
The context does not matter, he should not have hit her period. He is a professional football player. The guy is a massive beast who is stronger than most males in society. If a woman is hitting you, grab her in a hug position with both of her arms pinned at her side. There is absolutely no excuse for hitting her whatsoever.


Shocked I had to read two pages before reading this.

Shame on the Baltimore fans in here pushing the self defense argument. There is literally zero reason to punch a woman unconscious. Should have been 8 games at the very least. There is zero chance he feared for his life to warrant any legit self defense argument.

NFL dropped the ball on this one.


Agreed with your general conclusion, but it is worth nothing that successfully establishing self-defense does not require fear for one's life. That standard only applies if deadly force was used.


We don't know the whole story but I don't see deadly force being an issue here. Sure you can probably claim self defense without truly being in a life threatening situation but dragging on unconscious women out of an elevator even if she was getting a bit physical is way beyond what should have happened.

There are a many ways to handle a physical situation with a women and knocking them unconscious without legit fear of life is not one of them.

This suspension does not fit the crime in the least bit.
I definitely agree with you there. If Rice would have received a lengthier suspension I wouldn't have had an issue with it.
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Legacyof52


Joined: 14 Nov 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
2 games is enough for Pierce to take his job IMO. If Pierce can stop getting banged up so often, he's a significantly more talented runner at this point. The fact that he had an even worse ypc than Rice last year is deceptive. Rice was smarter about seeing when his line wasn't going to do anything and diving forward for little gain or a minimal loss, while Pierce would lose yards trying to make a play that wasn't there.

With a simpler downhill ZBS and NFL caliber interior lineman, Pierce's efficiency should shoot way back up.
I agree with you, Pierce is more talented at this point. I also like Pierce in the ZBS, just needs to stay healthy.
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ninerfanwheelz


Joined: 01 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad testing positive for Adderall is worse than beating your wife
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M.10.E


Joined: 24 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

delete

Last edited by M.10.E on Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ninerfanwheelz wrote:
I'm glad testing positive for Adderall is worse than beating your wife


This has to be sarcasm.. too much ignorance in one post to be real.
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DontTazeMeBro


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pierce is nice. He isn't close to the player Rice is.
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Legacyof52 wrote:
If Rice would have received a lengthier suspension I wouldn't have had an issue with it.


Same. I was expecting 4 games minimum honestly. But, apparently there's something more to it than we know as the public audience.
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Legacyof52


Joined: 14 Nov 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ninerfanwheelz wrote:
I'm glad testing positive for Adderall is worse than beating your wife
I guess the NFL sees Adderall as something that can contribute to masking AAS. I don't know I'm just taking a wild guess here.
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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:

It's pretty damn clear what happened. He got off because he is a celebrity and they both agreed to counseling. 2 games is nuts


Oh, so the law and the league both let him off easy because he's a celebrity? Got it. Definitely couldn't be what's on the video that they've both seen and we haven't, right? Nope, no way Jose.


The law let him off because she wouldn't press charges.

The league presents itself as caring about so many issues, yet in an instance where he clearly beat his wife, he is only given 2 games. Ya it's absurd.

If you don't think so, I honestly question your judgement and homerism.
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nugpimpen


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keysersoze3421 wrote:
It's unclear. Witnesses say he punched her. The police report vaguely says they used their hands against one another. There's a video, but no one's seen it.


Doesn't the video show him dragging her unconscious body from an elevator?

Maybe she slipped? Laughing
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Rockice_8


Joined: 05 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
Rockice_8 wrote:
keysersoze3421 wrote:
Rockice_8 wrote:
Seventh Woods wrote:
The context does not matter, he should not have hit her period. He is a professional football player. The guy is a massive beast who is stronger than most males in society. If a woman is hitting you, grab her in a hug position with both of her arms pinned at her side. There is absolutely no excuse for hitting her whatsoever.


Shocked I had to read two pages before reading this.

Shame on the Baltimore fans in here pushing the self defense argument. There is literally zero reason to punch a woman unconscious. Should have been 8 games at the very least. There is zero chance he feared for his life to warrant any legit self defense argument.

NFL dropped the ball on this one.


Agreed with your general conclusion, but it is worth nothing that successfully establishing self-defense does not require fear for one's life. That standard only applies if deadly force was used.


We don't know the whole story but I don't see deadly force being an issue here. Sure you can probably claim self defense without truly being in a life threatening situation but dragging on unconscious women out of an elevator even if she was getting a bit physical is way beyond what should have happened.

There are a many ways to handle a physical situation with a women and knocking them unconscious without legit fear of life is not one of them.

This suspension does not fit the crime in the least bit.


Do you not believe that she may have became unconscious by way of hitting her head (perhaps against the elevator railing) rather than directly via a blow by Rice? For instance, if in defending himself, he pushed her away, causing her to lose balance (remember, her balance likely wasn't the best anyway due to being intoxicated) and banging her head? Is that not a potential scenario in your eyes?


Did you ever think that this story you are concocting is way less plausible than what most likely happened. The Police are quoted as saying they have visual evidence of Rice knocking her out. Not that they saw her stumble into a railing.

Railing of an elevator? Really? That would have to be one lucky fall to clip that perfectly. I've been in those elevators.

It was a slap on the wrist for him when he deserved a kick in the nuts. The punishment didn't fit the crime and he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt in this because it's a first time.
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:

The law let him off because she wouldn't press charges.


Back this up, please.

Quote:
The league presents itself as caring about so many issues, yet in an instance where he clearly beat his wife, he is only given 2 games. Ya it's absurd.

If you don't think so, I honestly question your judgement and homerism.


Read my other 10 posts in here for my opinion, because if that's what you think I'm arguing by any stretch, you're mistaken.
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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Location: Parkville, MD
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rockice_8 wrote:

Did you ever think that this story you are concocting is way less plausible than what most likely happened. The Police are quoted as saying they have visual evidence of Rice knocking her out. Not that they saw her stumble into a railing.


I'm not concocting any story -- simply giving a scenario which is plausible.

The police may be quoted that, but their actual report mentions nothing that concrete. That's the key here. There's all sorts of "quotes" from witnesses, police, etc. Yet, the police report itself which was brought to court mentions none of that and the video which supposedly shows that has not been confirmed as being that scenario. So, the situation I present is absolutely plausible and just as likely as Rice just flat out rocking her face off.

Quote:
Railing of an elevator? Really? That would have to be one lucky fall to clip that perfectly. I've been in those elevators.


As have I. Nearly all elevators have hand railings around them. It's not nearly as "lucky" as you make it seem to have a person fall and potentially bang their head on one. But again, that's just one scenario I've mentioned -- perhaps her head hit the ground?

Quote:
It was a slap on the wrist for him when he deserved a kick in the nuts. The punishment didn't fit the crime and he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt in this because it's a first time.


Except that you don't KNOW what the crime actually was -- it's still unclear at this point. There is a video that those involved have seen and obviously came to a conclusion that the punishment does indeed fit the crime. For you to just ignore that fact and assume you know precisely what occurred, without entertaining any sort of other potential scenario, shows quite a bit of closed-mindedness in my opinion.
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