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Ray Rice suspended 2 games
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:
So first time substance abusers get what? 4-6 games? Can't remember.


I agree most of the time when repeat offenders should get nailed with worse penalties, but hitting a woman shouldn't have to do with repeat offenders in this case.

It's pretty damn clear what happened. He got off because he is a celebrity and they both agreed to counseling. 2 games is nuts


I thought first time substance abusers simply entered the substance abuse program?

Here, first time PED positive-testers are subject to suspension immediately, but those who test for a "substance of abuse" enter the program. Suspensions do not begin until other steps occur.

Quote:
In the PED policy, players are tested at the scouting combine before their rookie seasons. Once they are in the league, players can be tested in the offseason, during the season and in the postseason.

A positive test results in an immediate four-game suspension.

Players can appeal the suspension within five business days of receiving "notice of discipline" from NFL.

The first positive test for a "substance of abuse" results in the player formally entering an enhanced testing/treatment program, where the player is tested more frequently.

A second positive test results in the player entering the "stages of intervention" outlined in the policy. "Stage 1" is the first stage in the policy and includes the player being referred to a "Regional Team" for his treatment. In Stage 1, the player can be tested as many times as the league's "Medical Director" desires to "adequately evaluate the player."

A positive test while in Stage 1 can result in a fine equal to three weeks of a player's pay and results in entrance to Stage 2.

A player remains under Stage 1 guidelines for 90 days, but the league's Medical Director can extend that time up to six months.

In Stage 2, players are subject to unannounced testing up to 10 times a month. A positive test while in Stage 2 or failure to comply with the treatment program results in a fine equal to four game checks and a four-game suspension.

Six-game suspensions are also possible in Stage 2.


Edit - Here is source for quote above (first link). Second link is to the policy listed on the NFL Players website, but it's a bit denser of a read.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_23711278/nfls-substance-abuse-and-performance-enhancing-drugs-policies

http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/PDFs/PlayerDevelopment/2010%20Drug%20Policy.pdf
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Legacyof52 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
Legacyof52 wrote:
Babylon wrote:
keysersoze3421 wrote:
How can this be reconciled with Roethlisberger's six-game ban in 2010?


Or you know, Pryor getting suspended 5 games for violating an NCAA rule by getting free tattoos.

I mean, at the end of the day, Ray Rice is done anyway, and I'll be glad to see DT's shoving him face first into the dirt at the line of scrimmage all day, but the optics on this are utterly embarrassing to the NFL.
I wouldn't be so sure about him being done over one poor season. I understand you're an expert and obviously the offensive line, and him being overweight last year had absolutely no bearing on his season. We will see! He has had a huge work load over the last few seasons, so him being "done" is a possibility.


Rice was not 'overweight' last season. He simply lost weight this season to try and become more explosive.
Ah, so he lost weight to become more explosive. That is funny that I heard he came into camp last year 10 or so lbs overweight. Can you show me otherwise? Not saying I do not believe you..

I heard he came into 225 and his playing weight was 212? that would be over weight.


Just read -- apparently he mentioned that he felt he was overweight, but it's not something that the team apparently had an issue with. He was up to 217 through the injury but the team wanted him more in the 212 range. He dropped about 10lbs this off season. Apparently most of the weight gain occurred during his injury and he finished the season at 225.

Edit: Didn't know he gained that much as the season went on. Sorry about that then. But yeah, he definitely should be more explosive this year after losing weight which should help.
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Rockice_8


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seventh Woods wrote:
The context does not matter, he should not have hit her period. He is a professional football player. The guy is a massive beast who is stronger than most males in society. If a woman is hitting you, grab her in a hug position with both of her arms pinned at her side. There is absolutely no excuse for hitting her whatsoever.


Shocked I had to read two pages before reading this.

Shame on the Baltimore fans in here pushing the self defense argument. There is literally zero reason to punch a woman unconscious. Should have been 8 games at the very least. There is zero chance he feared for his life to warrant any legit self defense argument.

NFL dropped the ball on this one.
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JaguarsFan28329


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a clear cut and dry message the NFL is sending. Beating your wife is not as bad as Substance Abuse.

Jaguars WR Ace Sanders got 4 games for a first time offense of Substance Abuse, Ray Rice should have gotten at least 6-8.

I guess it's the times we live in. Hopefully one day the NFL and the rest of the world will realize that Beating a Woman is a much worse crime than smoking a little weed or other Substance type abuses.
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BlaqOptic


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:

It's pretty damn clear what happened. He got off because he is a celebrity and they both agreed to counseling. 2 games is nuts


Oh, so the law and the league both let him off easy because he's a celebrity? Got it. Definitely couldn't be what's on the video that they've both seen and we haven't, right? Nope, no way Jose.


The problem here is you're making a huge leap of faith in hoping that the law and league saw something rather than the high status of Rice playing a role. Because it's clear it did as this type of occurrence happens often; see the previous reference to Brandon Marshall or any other domestic abuse thing with professional athletes. Happens way too often... But please tell me how celebs and high profile athletes don't get away with stuff. To me it's pretty clear your Ravens bias is clouding your judgement and that's fine. But I won't be discussing this matter further becuause whomever mets out punishment for the league is a hypocrite, a joke, and should be knocked out and dragged by Ray Ricr.
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Legacyof52


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
Legacyof52 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
Legacyof52 wrote:
Babylon wrote:
keysersoze3421 wrote:
How can this be reconciled with Roethlisberger's six-game ban in 2010?


Or you know, Pryor getting suspended 5 games for violating an NCAA rule by getting free tattoos.

I mean, at the end of the day, Ray Rice is done anyway, and I'll be glad to see DT's shoving him face first into the dirt at the line of scrimmage all day, but the optics on this are utterly embarrassing to the NFL.
I wouldn't be so sure about him being done over one poor season. I understand you're an expert and obviously the offensive line, and him being overweight last year had absolutely no bearing on his season. We will see! He has had a huge work load over the last few seasons, so him being "done" is a possibility.


Rice was not 'overweight' last season. He simply lost weight this season to try and become more explosive.
Ah, so he lost weight to become more explosive. That is funny that I heard he came into camp last year 10 or so lbs overweight. Can you show me otherwise? Not saying I do not believe you..

I heard he came into 225 and his playing weight was 212? that would be over weight.


Just read -- apparently he mentioned that he felt he was overweight, but it's not something that the team apparently had an issue with. He was up to 217 through the injury but the team wanted him more in the 212 range. He dropped about 10lbs this off season. Apparently most of the weight gain occurred during his injury and he finished the season at 225.
Ahh, I see, thanks for clearing that up
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rockice_8 wrote:
Seventh Woods wrote:
The context does not matter, he should not have hit her period. He is a professional football player. The guy is a massive beast who is stronger than most males in society. If a woman is hitting you, grab her in a hug position with both of her arms pinned at her side. There is absolutely no excuse for hitting her whatsoever.


Shocked I had to read two pages before reading this.

Shame on the Baltimore fans in here pushing the self defense argument. There is literally zero reason to punch a woman unconscious. Should have been 8 games at the very least. There is zero chance he feared for his life to warrant any legit self defense argument.

NFL dropped the ball on this one.


Again, the video from inside the elevator very well may have shown that he did not in fact punch her unconscious. We don't know what that video shows, but those who do went what seems to be lenient on his punishments, so we can infer that its likely not as bad as the media seems to paint it.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JaguarsFan28329 wrote:
It's a clear cut and dry message the NFL is sending. Beating your wife is not as bad as Substance Abuse.

Jaguars WR Ace Sanders got 4 games for a first time offense.

I guess it's the times we live in. Hopefully one day the NFL and the rest of the world will realize that Beating a Woman is a much worse crime than smoking a little weed or other Substance type abuses.


Ok, there is a lot of misinformation being pushed in here. 1st time substance abuse violations simply result in a player entering the program. A second violation triggers the suspension. Regarding Ace Sanders:

Quote:
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- Jaguars receiver Ace Sanders is taking a leave of absence to deal with what he called personal issues, but he also admitted he is facing a four-game suspension, which a source close to the team confirmed is for a second violation of the NFL's substance-abuse policy.


http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11249916/ace-sanders-jacksonville-jaguars-takes-leave-suspension-looming
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaqOptic wrote:

The problem here is you're making a huge leap of faith in hoping that the law and league saw something rather than the high status of Rice playing a role.


I'm not taking that leap of faith. It's possible. I've yet to say a definitive stance like the poster I quoted.

Quote:
Because it's clear it did as this type of occurrence happens often; see the previous reference to Brandon Marshall or any other domestic abuse thing with professional athletes. Happens way too often...


How is it clear exactly? How is it that it's 'clear' that it's his status rather than what a video, which has not been made public, may or may not have shown? Please tell me how speaking in any sort of definitives makes any sense when a critical piece of information is missing?

Quote:
But please tell me how celebs and high profile athletes don't get away with stuff.


Show me where I said this. I'll wait.

Quote:
To me it's pretty clear your Ravens bias is clouding your judgement and that's fine.


It's not clouding my judgement -- it's simply had me look more into the situation rather than listening to TMZ. I've felt this same stance on many high profile cases not involving the NFL, but for the sake of not opening another can of worms, I won't name them here. Will be happy to discuss that via PM to keep from getting this thread locked.

Quote:
But I won't be discussing this matter further becuause whomever mets out punishment for the league is a hypocrite, a joke, and should be knocked out and dragged by Ray Ricr.


You've already made your mind up about the situation, obviously, so it's probably best that you don't just continue to spew ignorance of a situation. At least we agree on that.
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keysersoze3421


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rockice_8 wrote:
Seventh Woods wrote:
The context does not matter, he should not have hit her period. He is a professional football player. The guy is a massive beast who is stronger than most males in society. If a woman is hitting you, grab her in a hug position with both of her arms pinned at her side. There is absolutely no excuse for hitting her whatsoever.


Shocked I had to read two pages before reading this.

Shame on the Baltimore fans in here pushing the self defense argument. There is literally zero reason to punch a woman unconscious. Should have been 8 games at the very least. There is zero chance he feared for his life to warrant any legit self defense argument.

NFL dropped the ball on this one.


Agreed with your general conclusion, but it is worth nothing that successfully establishing self-defense does not require fear for one's life. That standard only applies if deadly force was used.
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Legacyof52


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keysersoze3421 wrote:
Rockice_8 wrote:
Seventh Woods wrote:
The context does not matter, he should not have hit her period. He is a professional football player. The guy is a massive beast who is stronger than most males in society. If a woman is hitting you, grab her in a hug position with both of her arms pinned at her side. There is absolutely no excuse for hitting her whatsoever.


Shocked I had to read two pages before reading this.

Shame on the Baltimore fans in here pushing the self defense argument. There is literally zero reason to punch a woman unconscious. Should have been 8 games at the very least. There is zero chance he feared for his life to warrant any legit self defense argument.

NFL dropped the ball on this one.
.

Agreed with your general conclusion, but it is worth nothing that successfully establishing self-defense does not require fear for one's life. That standard only applies if deadly force was used.


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Legacyof52


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seen someone mention Ravens fan's saying that Rice punching his wife was in self defense? I only seen someone mention about him pushing her. Unless I missed it somewhere.
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keysersoze3421


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's unclear. Witnesses say he punched her. The police report vaguely says they used their hands against one another. There's a video, but no one's seen it.
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Rockice_8


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keysersoze3421 wrote:
Rockice_8 wrote:
Seventh Woods wrote:
The context does not matter, he should not have hit her period. He is a professional football player. The guy is a massive beast who is stronger than most males in society. If a woman is hitting you, grab her in a hug position with both of her arms pinned at her side. There is absolutely no excuse for hitting her whatsoever.


Shocked I had to read two pages before reading this.

Shame on the Baltimore fans in here pushing the self defense argument. There is literally zero reason to punch a woman unconscious. Should have been 8 games at the very least. There is zero chance he feared for his life to warrant any legit self defense argument.

NFL dropped the ball on this one.


Agreed with your general conclusion, but it is worth nothing that successfully establishing self-defense does not require fear for one's life. That standard only applies if deadly force was used.


We don't know the whole story but I don't see deadly force being an issue here. Sure you can probably claim self defense without truly being in a life threatening situation but dragging on unconscious women out of an elevator even if she was getting a bit physical is way beyond what should have happened.

There are a many ways to handle a physical situation with a women and knocking them unconscious without legit fear of life is not one of them.

This suspension does not fit the crime in the least bit.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where are all these middle class non-famous people doing hard time for a first time offense domestic violence charge in which the victim(for lack of a better term) was also arrested and didn't press charges? People hit their significant other all the time and go home the next day.
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