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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 16633
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: hmmm Reply with quote

bigben07MVP wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
bigben07MVP wrote:
Only thing I will say is the kid had a lot maturing to do before he can lead the Browns to the playoffs and further.


Ben was still picking up/preying on college chicks after he won two Super Bowls.

Maturity and success are not mutually exclusive.


Sorry, I didn't mean maturity in his off the field life. Originally his off the field antics are why I thought he would bust but since TC has started we haven't heard a peep about off the field stuff and you can tell he is 100% focused on football.

I was talking about maturing as a quarterback aka reading defenses, calling audibles, getting comfortable taking snaps under center, improve decision making, master the play book, lookoff receivers. Those are the aspects I feel he has the most room to improve in.


Duly noted.
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looks like Ditch's infinite wisdom is correct again.
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big poppa pump


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BooyaCS wrote:
BwickBrownie wrote:
big poppa pump wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:
big poppa pump wrote:
I don't see why the Browns HAVE to start Manziel just for the sake of getting experience. When a coach says they will start the guy that gives them the best chance to win, that's what they mean, and that's what they should do. If the staff thinks that Hoyer is even slightly ahead of Manziel when the season begins, then that's who they should start.

There isn't one particular way that a QB grows and improves.

There are plenty of QB's that have come off the bench either because of injury, or the starter not playing well, or having passed the starter by becoming better in practice.

Throwing jf out there, just for the sake of getting him experience is not necessarily what's best for his growth, and more importantly, the team. Some qb's do better watching and learning, while others may improve by going out there and playing through their mistakes.

To say either method is better than the other is simply not true. Neither Johnny, nor Hoyer should start for the sake of starting, or sit for the sake of sitting.

If Johnny is the qb that gives us the best chance to win week 1, he should start.....if it's not till week 8, then it should be then......if not till next year.....so be it.


I don't think the staff believes Hoyer gives them the best chance to win. I think Pettine is too afraid to start a rookie and will start Hoyer regardless.


That doesn't make much sense. If you are proposing that there is turmoil within the coaching staff, then I suppose it could be true.

Why would Pettine not start the guy that gives them the best chance to win, regardless if that guy is a rookie?


I understand the concern... other Browns coaches have simply wanted to start veterans, whether it was out of a sense of loyalty, feeling like veterans had "earned it" more, not wanting to give rookies a sense of entitlement, or feeling like even if a rookie was better, being experienced gave the other player an intangible leg up.

I guess all I would point to is Pettine's willingness to play other rookies as starters, like Bitonio and possibly Gilbert and Kirksey. I don't get the Crennel / Mangini vibe from Pettine, and when he says every spot is open to best player, I really think he means that regardless of time played in the NFL.


I think Pettine wants Hoyer but the others (Loggins, Shannahan) want Manziel. So Pettine will probably pull the power play and start Hoyer because he is the 6 year vet.


Did I miss something? I haven't heard any speculation that this may be the case. If you really believe that this is true, what is it based on?

Obviously it's a possibility, but if you are Pettine, (a defensive guy) why would you not rely on your offensive staff to point you in the direction that they feel will result in more wins?
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BwickBrownie


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BooyaCS wrote:
BwickBrownie wrote:
big poppa pump wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:
big poppa pump wrote:
I don't see why the Browns HAVE to start Manziel just for the sake of getting experience. When a coach says they will start the guy that gives them the best chance to win, that's what they mean, and that's what they should do. If the staff thinks that Hoyer is even slightly ahead of Manziel when the season begins, then that's who they should start.

There isn't one particular way that a QB grows and improves.

There are plenty of QB's that have come off the bench either because of injury, or the starter not playing well, or having passed the starter by becoming better in practice.

Throwing jf out there, just for the sake of getting him experience is not necessarily what's best for his growth, and more importantly, the team. Some qb's do better watching and learning, while others may improve by going out there and playing through their mistakes.

To say either method is better than the other is simply not true. Neither Johnny, nor Hoyer should start for the sake of starting, or sit for the sake of sitting.

If Johnny is the qb that gives us the best chance to win week 1, he should start.....if it's not till week 8, then it should be then......if not till next year.....so be it.


I don't think the staff believes Hoyer gives them the best chance to win. I think Pettine is too afraid to start a rookie and will start Hoyer regardless.


That doesn't make much sense. If you are proposing that there is turmoil within the coaching staff, then I suppose it could be true.

Why would Pettine not start the guy that gives them the best chance to win, regardless if that guy is a rookie?


I understand the concern... other Browns coaches have simply wanted to start veterans, whether it was out of a sense of loyalty, feeling like veterans had "earned it" more, not wanting to give rookies a sense of entitlement, or feeling like even if a rookie was better, being experienced gave the other player an intangible leg up.

I guess all I would point to is Pettine's willingness to play other rookies as starters, like Bitonio and possibly Gilbert and Kirksey. I don't get the Crennel / Mangini vibe from Pettine, and when he says every spot is open to best player, I really think he means that regardless of time played in the NFL.


I think Pettine wants Hoyer but the others (Loggins, Shannahan) want Manziel. So Pettine will probably pull the power play and start Hoyer because he is the 6 year vet.


The one thing I would have to say to help with your concern is Pettine's comment the other day when he went out of his way to say Hoyer is closer to being a rookie than a veteran based on the limited starts he's had. If he had the mentality you are worried about, I think he would be pushing the "strong veteran" role on Hoyer instead. He could be lying through his teeth, but I remember at the time I heard him say that that it struck me as something very deliberate.
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BooyaCS


Joined: 27 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big poppa pump wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:
BwickBrownie wrote:
big poppa pump wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:
big poppa pump wrote:
I don't see why the Browns HAVE to start Manziel just for the sake of getting experience. When a coach says they will start the guy that gives them the best chance to win, that's what they mean, and that's what they should do. If the staff thinks that Hoyer is even slightly ahead of Manziel when the season begins, then that's who they should start.

There isn't one particular way that a QB grows and improves.

There are plenty of QB's that have come off the bench either because of injury, or the starter not playing well, or having passed the starter by becoming better in practice.

Throwing jf out there, just for the sake of getting him experience is not necessarily what's best for his growth, and more importantly, the team. Some qb's do better watching and learning, while others may improve by going out there and playing through their mistakes.

To say either method is better than the other is simply not true. Neither Johnny, nor Hoyer should start for the sake of starting, or sit for the sake of sitting.

If Johnny is the qb that gives us the best chance to win week 1, he should start.....if it's not till week 8, then it should be then......if not till next year.....so be it.


I don't think the staff believes Hoyer gives them the best chance to win. I think Pettine is too afraid to start a rookie and will start Hoyer regardless.


That doesn't make much sense. If you are proposing that there is turmoil within the coaching staff, then I suppose it could be true.

Why would Pettine not start the guy that gives them the best chance to win, regardless if that guy is a rookie?


I understand the concern... other Browns coaches have simply wanted to start veterans, whether it was out of a sense of loyalty, feeling like veterans had "earned it" more, not wanting to give rookies a sense of entitlement, or feeling like even if a rookie was better, being experienced gave the other player an intangible leg up.

I guess all I would point to is Pettine's willingness to play other rookies as starters, like Bitonio and possibly Gilbert and Kirksey. I don't get the Crennel / Mangini vibe from Pettine, and when he says every spot is open to best player, I really think he means that regardless of time played in the NFL.


I think Pettine wants Hoyer but the others (Loggins, Shannahan) want Manziel. So Pettine will probably pull the power play and start Hoyer because he is the 6 year vet.


Did I miss something? I haven't heard any speculation that this may be the case. If you really believe that this is true, what is it based on?

Obviously it's a possibility, but if you are Pettine, (a defensive guy) why would you not rely on your offensive staff to point you in the direction that they feel will result in more wins?


It is based off of Pettine saying Hoyer is clearly ahead and Shannahan saying they are basically even.
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big poppa pump


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^^^^^^^^

Here is what Pettine had to say recently about the competition.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2014/8/11/5989965/mike-pettine-assesses-qb-competition-team-in-sunday-conference-call

Most recent comments that I could find from Shanahan.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/07/kyle_shanahan_says_neither_bri.html

I see a lot of "slightly ahead" and "even" comments from the both of them. Sounds like you are seeing problems within the coaching staff based on.....I don't know what you are basing them on.
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BwickBrownie wrote:
big poppa pump wrote:
I don't see why the Browns HAVE to start Manziel just for the sake of getting experience. When a coach says they will start the guy that gives them the best chance to win, that's what they mean, and that's what they should do. If the staff thinks that Hoyer is even slightly ahead of Manziel when the season begins, then that's who they should start.
.




Well said sir


This is faulty logic unless the two subjects we are comparing are constants. Like if one batch of cookies is slightly better than another batch, you prefer the first one.

Some will say, start Hoyer and when Johnny passes him, make the switch. Well, how do you tell when he's passed him if one guy is taking all the 1st team reps and the other guy 2nd team?

If it's truly close and one guy has reached his pinnacle and the other guy is getting better all the time and has the bigger upside, it should be a no brainer.

The Wilson/Flynn model is a perfect example. It was close...most assumed or advised that they should go with the veteran first...let the young guy sit and learn. I think he learned just fine on the fly. Who knows how it turns out if Wilson doesn't start from the beginning.

What if Hoyer starts out playing just well enough to not lose his job and the Browns are competitive and close to .500 but not really a threat? How do you know when to make the switch? Hoyers not gonna suddenly turn it on and lead the team past mediocrity down the stretch, but he's also playing up to par for what you expected and the coach gets stuck with the guy he chose as the starter and the future is stuck on the bench until the last game or two when they are eliminated from contention.

You're left wondering what whould've happened with JF the whole year. Unless you somehow think Hoyer could lead a special season, Browns fans & coaches should want Johnny from the get go or it's possible they get stuck with Hoyer until they're out of contention...cuz that's the kind of player I believe he is...might not be bad enough to "lose his job" but not good enough to take you anywhere.

BwickBrownie wrote:


I understand the concern... other Browns coaches have simply wanted to start veterans, whether it was out of a sense of loyalty, feeling like veterans had "earned it" more, not wanting to give rookies a sense of entitlement, or feeling like even if a rookie was better, being experienced gave the other player an intangible leg up.
.


The thing is experience is "part" of being good, so if a rookie is "better" despite the experience gap, then it's a no brainer. Sometimes a rookie is "more talented" but not as good because of the vet's experience. But if a vet is not as good as a rookie, despite experience then you really can't consider it a "leg up"....just like if a vet plays better than a rookie who has a better arm, that rookie doesn't have a "leg up" just because of his arm talent.
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Last edited by ArrowheadRage58 on Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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big poppa pump


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
BwickBrownie wrote:
big poppa pump wrote:
I don't see why the Browns HAVE to start Manziel just for the sake of getting experience. When a coach says they will start the guy that gives them the best chance to win, that's what they mean, and that's what they should do. If the staff thinks that Hoyer is even slightly ahead of Manziel when the season begins, then that's who they should start.

There isn't one particular way that a QB grows and improves.

There are plenty of QB's that have come off the bench either because of injury, or the starter not playing well, or having passed the starter by becoming better in practice.

Throwing jf out there, just for the sake of getting him experience is not necessarily what's best for his growth, and more importantly, the team. Some qb's do better watching and learning, while others may improve by going out there and playing through their mistakes.

To say either method is better than the other is simply not true. Neither Johnny, nor Hoyer should start for the sake of starting, or sit for the sake of sitting.

If Johnny is the qb that gives us the best chance to win week 1, he should start.....if it's not till week 8, then it should be then......if not till next year.....so be it.




Well said sir


This is faulty logic unless the two subjects we are comparing are constants. Like if one batch of cookies is slightly better than another batch, you prefer the first one.

Some will say, start Hoyer and when Johnny passes him, make the switch. Well, how do you tell when he's passed him if one guy is taking all the 1st team reps and the other guy 2nd team?

If it's truly close and one guy has reached his pinnacle and the other guy is getting better all the time and has the bigger upside, it should be a no brainer.

The Wilson/Flynn model is a perfect example. It was close...most assumed or advised that they should go with the veteran first...let the young guy sit and learn. I think he learned just fine on the fly. Who knows how it turns out if Wilson doesn't start from the beginning.

What if Hoyer starts out playing just well enough to not lose his job and the Browns are competitive and close to .500 but not really a threat? How do you know when to make the switch? Hoyers not gonna suddenly turn it on and lead the team past mediocrity down the stretch, but he's also playing up to par for what you expected and the coach gets stuck with the guy he chose as the starter and the future is stuck on the bench until the last game or two when they are eliminated from contention.

You're left wondering what whould've happened with JF the whole year. Unless you somehow think Hoyer could lead a special season, Browns fans & coaches should want Johnny from the get go or it's possible they get stuck with Hoyer until they're out of contention...cuz that's the kind of player I believe he is...might not be bad enough to "lose his job" but not good enough to take you anywhere.


Then how did Colin Kaepernick take over as a starter when Alex Smith had over a 100 passer rating and they were in the midst of a playoff push?
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mistakebytehlak


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big poppa pump wrote:
ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
BwickBrownie wrote:
big poppa pump wrote:
I don't see why the Browns HAVE to start Manziel just for the sake of getting experience. When a coach says they will start the guy that gives them the best chance to win, that's what they mean, and that's what they should do. If the staff thinks that Hoyer is even slightly ahead of Manziel when the season begins, then that's who they should start.

There isn't one particular way that a QB grows and improves.

There are plenty of QB's that have come off the bench either because of injury, or the starter not playing well, or having passed the starter by becoming better in practice.

Throwing jf out there, just for the sake of getting him experience is not necessarily what's best for his growth, and more importantly, the team. Some qb's do better watching and learning, while others may improve by going out there and playing through their mistakes.

To say either method is better than the other is simply not true. Neither Johnny, nor Hoyer should start for the sake of starting, or sit for the sake of sitting.

If Johnny is the qb that gives us the best chance to win week 1, he should start.....if it's not till week 8, then it should be then......if not till next year.....so be it.




Well said sir


This is faulty logic unless the two subjects we are comparing are constants. Like if one batch of cookies is slightly better than another batch, you prefer the first one.

Some will say, start Hoyer and when Johnny passes him, make the switch. Well, how do you tell when he's passed him if one guy is taking all the 1st team reps and the other guy 2nd team?

If it's truly close and one guy has reached his pinnacle and the other guy is getting better all the time and has the bigger upside, it should be a no brainer.

The Wilson/Flynn model is a perfect example. It was close...most assumed or advised that they should go with the veteran first...let the young guy sit and learn. I think he learned just fine on the fly. Who knows how it turns out if Wilson doesn't start from the beginning.

What if Hoyer starts out playing just well enough to not lose his job and the Browns are competitive and close to .500 but not really a threat? How do you know when to make the switch? Hoyers not gonna suddenly turn it on and lead the team past mediocrity down the stretch, but he's also playing up to par for what you expected and the coach gets stuck with the guy he chose as the starter and the future is stuck on the bench until the last game or two when they are eliminated from contention.

You're left wondering what whould've happened with JF the whole year. Unless you somehow think Hoyer could lead a special season, Browns fans & coaches should want Johnny from the get go or it's possible they get stuck with Hoyer until they're out of contention...cuz that's the kind of player I believe he is...might not be bad enough to "lose his job" but not good enough to take you anywhere.


Then how did Colin Kaepernick take over as a starter when Alex Smith had over a 100 passer rating and they were in the midst of a playoff push?


concussion...
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BwickBrownie


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:

This is faulty logic unless the two subjects we are comparing are constants. Like if one batch of cookies is slightly better than another batch, you prefer the first one.

Some will say, start Hoyer and when Johnny passes him, make the switch. Well, how do you tell when he's passed him if one guy is taking all the 1st team reps and the other guy 2nd team?

If it's truly close and one guy has reached his pinnacle and the other guy is getting better all the time and has the bigger upside, it should be a no brainer.

The Wilson/Flynn model is a perfect example. It was close...most assumed or advised that they should go with the veteran first...let the young guy sit and learn. I think he learned just fine on the fly. Who knows how it turns out if Wilson doesn't start from the beginning.

What if Hoyer starts out playing just well enough to not lose his job and the Browns are competitive and close to .500 but not really a threat? How do you know when to make the switch? Hoyers not gonna suddenly turn it on and lead the team past mediocrity down the stretch, but he's also playing up to par for what you expected and the coach gets stuck with the guy he chose as the starter and the future is stuck on the bench until the last game or two when they are eliminated from contention.

You're left wondering what whould've happened with JF the whole year. Unless you somehow think Hoyer could lead a special season, Browns fans & coaches should want Johnny from the get go or it's possible they get stuck with Hoyer until they're out of contention...cuz that's the kind of player I believe he is...might not be bad enough to "lose his job" but not good enough to take you anywhere.


There's nothing faulty about saying if Hoyer gives the Browns the better chance to win, then he should start. Those of us agreeing with this logic feel like it is on the coaching staff's shoulders to make this determination, and if they're right, then Hoyer will win the Browns more games than Manziel. If they're wrong, then it becomes evident in the regular season that Hoyer isn't good (i.e. starting the season 0-3) and Manziel comes in as a viable alternative and the future of the team (as opposed to the QB who is a FA after the season) and is given a chance to accumulate experience on the field. Sure, Pettine and staff are leaving themselves open to criticism by starting Hoyer and being wrong, but that's the risk they take and the pressure to get things right.
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mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: hmmm Reply with quote

BwickBrownie wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
BwickBrownie wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:
Mastercheddaar wrote:
Dawgpoun8017 wrote:


Im sorry that I think Manziel is more talented than him, Hoyer has had a lackluster career, he has not done anything in his career for me to say he should most definitely be starting


I'm not going to say Johnny is better than Hoyer currently but I do believe that if he sits back and learns the system and the speed of the pros he will be better in time. I just don't want to ruin him by throwing him in the fire too soon.

that is all

Mastercheddaar


You learn nothing by sitting.


Rolling Eyes

If one can't learn without doing something himself, then
A. You have a bad teacher or
B. You're a bad student


or someone doesnt learn by passively watching...
experience is key


I suppose it is a possibility that someone has such limited intelligence that he isn't bright enough to learn without doing it himself, but if that's the case with anyone playing QB for the Browns, then I think they should be cut immediately. Hours of watching tape of previous offensive schemes and reading the playbook before implementation would have already been wasted.

In general, I love how this conversation has devolved into hyperbole. A statement is made about developing on the bench and now it's being proposed that that's impossible just because? Why not just say Manziel's growth would be stunted by being on the bench and argue this position, instead making a silly claim like how impossible it is to learn without doing something (see bolded above)? At least then an honest point/counterpoint could take place...something that makes FF fun to come to and post on... instead of you trying to shout the other side into submission.


I don't learn unless I can actually interact with the subject. I can read an economics book 123129349124 times and still get a 10% on the test (I did)- but as soon as I wrote down notes and did problems I got much better grades.
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mistakebytehlak


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

even the browns are making their players write things down instead of just reading them...

passive learning doesnt work for some.
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big poppa pump wrote:


Then how did Colin Kaepernick take over as a starter when Alex Smith had over a 100 passer rating and they were in the midst of a playoff push?


Injury.

You made my point for me...Kaep never would've gotten in without the injury. Now this was also quite different because both QB's seemed capable of taking SF to the SB. Even to this day, it's not clear cut which of those QB's is better right now. Kaep has more potential, but Alex isn't Hoyer...he was a #1 overall pick and while it's clear now he shouldn't have been, he now has shown he was a legit 1st round talent.

There was also no preseason QB competition for SF in 2012. Alex was clearly ahead at that point. So, I don't see the comparison.
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big poppa pump


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistakebytehlak wrote:
big poppa pump wrote:
ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
BwickBrownie wrote:
big poppa pump wrote:
I don't see why the Browns HAVE to start Manziel just for the sake of getting experience. When a coach says they will start the guy that gives them the best chance to win, that's what they mean, and that's what they should do. If the staff thinks that Hoyer is even slightly ahead of Manziel when the season begins, then that's who they should start.

There isn't one particular way that a QB grows and improves.

There are plenty of QB's that have come off the bench either because of injury, or the starter not playing well, or having passed the starter by becoming better in practice.

Throwing jf out there, just for the sake of getting him experience is not necessarily what's best for his growth, and more importantly, the team. Some qb's do better watching and learning, while others may improve by going out there and playing through their mistakes.

To say either method is better than the other is simply not true. Neither Johnny, nor Hoyer should start for the sake of starting, or sit for the sake of sitting.

If Johnny is the qb that gives us the best chance to win week 1, he should start.....if it's not till week 8, then it should be then......if not till next year.....so be it.




Well said sir


This is faulty logic unless the two subjects we are comparing are constants. Like if one batch of cookies is slightly better than another batch, you prefer the first one.

Some will say, start Hoyer and when Johnny passes him, make the switch. Well, how do you tell when he's passed him if one guy is taking all the 1st team reps and the other guy 2nd team?

If it's truly close and one guy has reached his pinnacle and the other guy is getting better all the time and has the bigger upside, it should be a no brainer.

The Wilson/Flynn model is a perfect example. It was close...most assumed or advised that they should go with the veteran first...let the young guy sit and learn. I think he learned just fine on the fly. Who knows how it turns out if Wilson doesn't start from the beginning.

What if Hoyer starts out playing just well enough to not lose his job and the Browns are competitive and close to .500 but not really a threat? How do you know when to make the switch? Hoyers not gonna suddenly turn it on and lead the team past mediocrity down the stretch, but he's also playing up to par for what you expected and the coach gets stuck with the guy he chose as the starter and the future is stuck on the bench until the last game or two when they are eliminated from contention.

You're left wondering what whould've happened with JF the whole year. Unless you somehow think Hoyer could lead a special season, Browns fans & coaches should want Johnny from the get go or it's possible they get stuck with Hoyer until they're out of contention...cuz that's the kind of player I believe he is...might not be bad enough to "lose his job" but not good enough to take you anywhere.


Then how did Colin Kaepernick take over as a starter when Alex Smith had over a 100 passer rating and they were in the midst of a playoff push?


concussion...


1 week.....cleared the next
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BwickBrownie wrote:


There's nothing faulty about saying if Hoyer gives the Browns the better chance to win, then he should start.


Sure, if it's clear, then I agree. The original statement said "if he's slightly ahead, he should start" and thats what I disagree with.

big poppa pump wrote:


1 week.....cleared the next


You make my point again...they couldn't tell by 2nd team reps during the season that Kaep was ready to take over until he got in a real game. Same thing I brought up with Johnny...how will they know when to make the switch? They won't...so as long as Hoyer isn't bad, they might stick with him and have a ho-hum season.

SF did everything right...Alex was the clear starter in week one. He got hurt...the backup (who happened to be the future) got a chance and lit it up. So now you got two good QB's...who do you go with the future or the incumbent? Same thing happened in Philly too.

If Cle goes with Hoyer week one, that ain't the same as SF going with Alex week one. However, if you do think Hoyer is the clear cut week one, just like Alex and Vick were at the time, then you should roll with him. But that doesn't appear to be the case...I sure don't remember anybody questioning why Foles/Kaep weren't starting.
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49ers Finest wrote:

People just seem to be mad because the chiefs are all of a sudden doing what their fans thought they were capable of


Last edited by ArrowheadRage58 on Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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BwickBrownie


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 1360
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:

BwickBrownie wrote:


I understand the concern... other Browns coaches have simply wanted to start veterans, whether it was out of a sense of loyalty, feeling like veterans had "earned it" more, not wanting to give rookies a sense of entitlement, or feeling like even if a rookie was better, being experienced gave the other player an intangible leg up.
.


The thing is experience is "part" of being good, so if a rookie is "better" despite the experience gap, then it's a no brainer. Sometimes a rookie is "more talented" but not as good because of the vet's experience. But if a vet is not as good as a rookie, despite experience then you really can't consider it a "leg up"....just like if a vet plays better than a rookie who has a better arm, that rookie doesn't have a "leg up" just because of his arm talent.


I'm not sure who you're trying to make a point to... I was providing guesses as to why coaches might value veterans who aren't as good as rookies. Would you like me to forward your concern to Eric Mangini and Romeo Crennel so they can provide a response as to why they favor vets?
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