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What were your thoughts on Sanders as a Steeler?
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wwhickok wrote:
Dcash4 wrote:

How good does he think he is? I have never heard of anything about him saying he deserves more or anything like that.

I feel your trying to paint a negative image of Sanders, but really, thats just not there,

Overall he is a good/very good receiver - depending on the day. He will thrive as a 3rd option (or lower in Denver) of an offense and he is a passable number 2.

Clutch wasnt his thing for us, but he can be a very good, productive player for a team.

In Denver he should strive on the opposite side of D. Thomas, and having eyes off of him, with Manning throwing the ball all around the lot.


No, definitely not trying to paint a negative picture, heck, i wanted him back. I definitely think there is potential, but I also feel like he thinks he's going to go to Denver and blow up. I just don't see it. It's just the impression I get from his recent comments about how playing with Manning is like winning the lottery and other such things. I get what he's saying but he's gotta be a better receiver than he has been for his QB's talent to matter all that much.

The talent is there, but he's gotta put it all together. He isn't the guy you're throwing to with the game on the line and the seconds ticking off in the Super Bowl imo. But he doesn't have to be that guy either.


The only thing he has even said about Denver is that he feels like fits well in that offense...and he does.

And while he may not "blow up", the chances of him not having his best season, if healthy, are very slim. I see him getting around 1000 yards this season and 6-8 TDs.

And Dcash is right. You can keep saying you arent trying to paint a negative picture of him but thats very much how it comes across. Not because you are being critical of him, but because you are saying things that simply arent true and have yet to back them up.

Yes, he dropped some bad passes...but saying his hands were inconsistent is off base considering he didnt drop a higher percentage of passes than several very highly regarded WRs.

And while you can argue the semantics of calling his hands inconsistent, there is really no truth behind him dropping "alot more" than 3 passes. I watched the games several times. Its not that he had alot of dropped passes...its just that the ones he did drop stand out. They arent forgettable drops.

And finally, Sanders hasnt really said anything other than that he feels good in Denver's offense. There is nothing wrong with him feeling that way, and honestly, he should feel that way.
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Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
wwhickok wrote:
Dcash4 wrote:

How good does he think he is? I have never heard of anything about him saying he deserves more or anything like that.

I feel your trying to paint a negative image of Sanders, but really, thats just not there,

Overall he is a good/very good receiver - depending on the day. He will thrive as a 3rd option (or lower in Denver) of an offense and he is a passable number 2.

Clutch wasnt his thing for us, but he can be a very good, productive player for a team.

In Denver he should strive on the opposite side of D. Thomas, and having eyes off of him, with Manning throwing the ball all around the lot.


No, definitely not trying to paint a negative picture, heck, i wanted him back. I definitely think there is potential, but I also feel like he thinks he's going to go to Denver and blow up. I just don't see it. It's just the impression I get from his recent comments about how playing with Manning is like winning the lottery and other such things. I get what he's saying but he's gotta be a better receiver than he has been for his QB's talent to matter all that much.

The talent is there, but he's gotta put it all together. He isn't the guy you're throwing to with the game on the line and the seconds ticking off in the Super Bowl imo. But he doesn't have to be that guy either.


The only thing he has even said about Denver is that he feels like fits well in that offense...and he does.

And while he may not "blow up", the chances of him not having his best season, if healthy, are very slim. I see him getting around 1000 yards this season and 6-8 TDs.

And Dcash is right. You can keep saying you arent trying to paint a negative picture of him but thats very much how it comes across. Not because you are being critical of him, but because you are saying things that simply arent true and have yet to back them up.

Yes, he dropped some bad passes...but saying his hands were inconsistent is off base considering he didnt drop a higher percentage of passes than several very highly regarded WRs.

And while you can argue the semantics of calling his hands inconsistent, there is really no truth behind him dropping "alot more" than 3 passes. I watched the games several times. Its not that he had alot of dropped passes...its just that the ones he did drop stand out. They arent forgettable drops.
And finally, Sanders hasnt really said anything other than that he feels good in Denver's offense. There is nothing wrong with him feeling that way, and honestly, he should feel that way.

Interesting. I too had the perception that he had the dropsies. Apparently this was based on some big moments (including the fumble) and not his overall play. If you say you've watched all the games and only saw 3, I gotta believe it. Funny how the mind works.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chieferific wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
wwhickok wrote:
Dcash4 wrote:

How good does he think he is? I have never heard of anything about him saying he deserves more or anything like that.

I feel your trying to paint a negative image of Sanders, but really, thats just not there,

Overall he is a good/very good receiver - depending on the day. He will thrive as a 3rd option (or lower in Denver) of an offense and he is a passable number 2.

Clutch wasnt his thing for us, but he can be a very good, productive player for a team.

In Denver he should strive on the opposite side of D. Thomas, and having eyes off of him, with Manning throwing the ball all around the lot.


No, definitely not trying to paint a negative picture, heck, i wanted him back. I definitely think there is potential, but I also feel like he thinks he's going to go to Denver and blow up. I just don't see it. It's just the impression I get from his recent comments about how playing with Manning is like winning the lottery and other such things. I get what he's saying but he's gotta be a better receiver than he has been for his QB's talent to matter all that much.

The talent is there, but he's gotta put it all together. He isn't the guy you're throwing to with the game on the line and the seconds ticking off in the Super Bowl imo. But he doesn't have to be that guy either.


The only thing he has even said about Denver is that he feels like fits well in that offense...and he does.

And while he may not "blow up", the chances of him not having his best season, if healthy, are very slim. I see him getting around 1000 yards this season and 6-8 TDs.

And Dcash is right. You can keep saying you arent trying to paint a negative picture of him but thats very much how it comes across. Not because you are being critical of him, but because you are saying things that simply arent true and have yet to back them up.

Yes, he dropped some bad passes...but saying his hands were inconsistent is off base considering he didnt drop a higher percentage of passes than several very highly regarded WRs.

And while you can argue the semantics of calling his hands inconsistent, there is really no truth behind him dropping "alot more" than 3 passes. I watched the games several times. Its not that he had alot of dropped passes...its just that the ones he did drop stand out. They arent forgettable drops.
And finally, Sanders hasnt really said anything other than that he feels good in Denver's offense. There is nothing wrong with him feeling that way, and honestly, he should feel that way.

Interesting. I too had the perception that he had the dropsies. Apparently this was based on some big moments (including the fumble) and not his overall play. If you say you've watched all the games and only saw 3, I gotta believe it. Funny how the mind works.


I saw 4 or 5 drops from him. One of those drops was a catch that wouldve been a "wow" play if he made it. Somewhat catchable, but wasnt a good throw and wouldve been a very tough catch.

3 drops is what that one site said...but that site usually seems to be off...slightly.

If you went through every last target Sanders had, you might be able to find another drop or two...depending on what you classify as a "drop". I classify a drop as a pass that hit the player in the hands that they should have caught. I dont count drops as very off target passes that hit a players fingertips and go incomplete.

If anything, my biggest issue watching him was how lazy he got on routes. He is a very good route runner WHEN HE WANTS TO BE, but after watching him more carefully, it was pretty evident he didnt always want to be.

I do agree with wwhickok on one thing.....he did lose focus often...but it wasnt just his pass catching ability that suffered.

Overall, I dont think its a huge loss at all. But I do think he will have a nice year in Denver.
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SlevinKelevra


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope Manning makes him an all pro
unless our paths cross, that is.
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treat88


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I mentioned Haley's O as a detriment to Sanders production my meaning was this:

A majority of Sanders time was spent lined up outside. While I think he's a capable player as an outside receiver, I think his skill set is much more suited to play a slot or motion position. I believe if he simply usurped Welker's role in the Broncos offense he has the skillset to put up all the numbers Welker did/will.

Anecdotally, frequently it seemed as if Brown would draw the less physical corner and get a safety walked to his side leaving Sanders to match up with a more physical corner. Sanders can win off the line, but to me he's a straight up finesse player. He becomes inconsistent with early contact in his route. By finesse I don't mean soft, I just don't think he enjoys playing to contact as opposed to a guy like Brown who loves trying to physically dominate his opponent. I didn't see Haley scheme him many free releases with things like motion or rub/pick route combos.

The short/intermediate passing game that Haley runs would be much more effective if they had a TE that threatened the seam and at least kept one safety on his heels. It seemed like often times the route combinations that Sanders ran were disrupted and/or challenged by a safety that could squat on his in breaking routes.

Finally, as great a QB as Ben is, I think it's reasonably valid to say he like to throw to open receivers rather than throw his receivers open. Sanders strongest point as a WR, to me, is that he wins at his route stem and creates separation coming out of his breaks. Ben's tendency to wait for the break to happen and see him come open rather than hit the spot he is breaking to, I think limited Sanders. He's a gets open, but doesn't stay open for long type route runner if that makes sense. Manning will love him. He may not put up huge numbers but the number of mouths to feed in Denver will limit him more than anything about his talents.

Some of these things are not truly "Haleys O" but rather personnel issues that I'm not sure Haley managed as well as he might and was truly handcuffed by in some instances.
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wwhickok


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, after reviewing some footage, I actually an changing my mind and joining 43M to a large degree and admitting I was wrong.

However, I do think he had, imo, about 6-7 Drops, 3 that were definitive (counted on the stat sheet) a couple of those that I'd be counting are 'nit picky'.

I agree, the "real bad" tends to stick in your mind and give you a false perception, so I went back and looked and you're right 43M, his drops are not as many as I initially thought.

But like I said before, he's got the talent to be even better than he is, I just think he's gotta put it all together and consistently display that talent.
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BlaqOptic


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent route runner. Doesn't produce at the level he should because... well who the hell knows. Has better physical tools than Antonio Brown... Yet never actually matriculated them onto the field and I dont think he ever actually will.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaqOptic wrote:
Excellent route runner. Doesn't produce at the level he should because... well who the hell knows. Has better physical tools than Antonio Brown... Yet never actually matriculated them onto the field and I dont think he ever actually will.


I think his route running is great when he wants it to be. He isnt always consistent with it though.

His physical tools in general may be better than AB's, but I think AB uses his better on the field. And either way, I think the difference is negligible.

I dont really know the reason either. Maybe he doesnt have that intangible quality needed to turn great attributes into great on field play. Maybe he just lacks the mental tools to put it altogether. But maybe a change in scenery will bring it out.

Time will tell.
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wwhickok


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:

I dont really know the reason either. Maybe he doesnt have that intangible quality needed to turn great attributes into great on field play. Maybe he just lacks the mental tools to put it altogether. But maybe a change in scenery will bring it out.

Time will tell.


Honestly, I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but I don't really think he lacks the mental tools, I simply think there are times where he lacks focus. which I suppose is a 'mental tool' but I think it's something he can correct. Playing with a Top 3 QB with the leadership qualities that Manning has could significantly help him.
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Dcash4


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
Excellent route runner. Doesn't produce at the level he should because... well who the hell knows. Has better physical tools than Antonio Brown... Yet never actually matriculated them onto the field and I dont think he ever actually will.


I think his route running is great when he wants it to be. He isnt always consistent with it though.

His physical tools in general may be better than AB's, but I think AB uses his better on the field. And either way, I think the difference is negligible.

I dont really know the reason either. Maybe he doesnt have that intangible quality needed to turn great attributes into great on field play. Maybe he just lacks the mental tools to put it altogether. But maybe a change in scenery will bring it out.

Time will tell.


43, I think you touched on this earlier - but a big reason i think that he did not produce at a higher level was that he and Ben never seemed to be on the same page.

If you are comparing AB and Sanders, that's a huge difference. Ben and AB seem to always be clicking. Sanders seemed to be in a different chapter of Ben's books at times.

Whether that's focus, not understanding offensive concepts, not reading defenses correctly, or what have you- he will need to get that corrected before he starts playing games with Manning.

Manning wont stand for those mental mistakes when he has 4 other options to throw to.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dcash4 wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
Excellent route runner. Doesn't produce at the level he should because... well who the hell knows. Has better physical tools than Antonio Brown... Yet never actually matriculated them onto the field and I dont think he ever actually will.


I think his route running is great when he wants it to be. He isnt always consistent with it though.

His physical tools in general may be better than AB's, but I think AB uses his better on the field. And either way, I think the difference is negligible.

I dont really know the reason either. Maybe he doesnt have that intangible quality needed to turn great attributes into great on field play. Maybe he just lacks the mental tools to put it altogether. But maybe a change in scenery will bring it out.

Time will tell.


43, I think you touched on this earlier - but a big reason i think that he did not produce at a higher level was that he and Ben never seemed to be on the same page.

If you are comparing AB and Sanders, that's a huge difference. Ben and AB seem to always be clicking. Sanders seemed to be in a different chapter of Ben's books at times.

Whether that's focus, not understanding offensive concepts, not reading defenses correctly, or what have you- he will need to get that corrected before he starts playing games with Manning.

Manning wont stand for those mental mistakes when he has 4 other options to throw to.


Yep...agree with all of that.

The best way to hurt chemistry with Peyton Manning is to make stupid mental mistakes.

Sanders has the tools to thrive with Manning, but his shortcomings might prevent that unless he really minimizes them.
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wwhickok


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly a part of that Dcash and I agree with you completely, could be that Ben is, at times, unpredictable. AB, imo is much better at improvising it would seem. When a play starts to break down, it doesn't really seem like Sanders knows how to adjust, maybe that's not the case but that's my perception.

All I mean is, there are times where, despite being a very good route runner, he's just not where he needs to be or the timing is completely off. It's not as if those things never happen with AB but they rarely do.
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JustPlainNasty


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sanders drops are just typically heartbreaking and ill-timed. Not that there is any good time for a drop but they just seem to be often enough at times when you really need them. Welker has some disappointing drops but when they happen its more of an amazing and rare thing whereas with Sanders it's not so overwhelming that he let you down at that point.

Sanders does work and runs good routes, has far far more explosiveness than Decker and they are very different slots. He has potential to be explosive on slants given the opportunity and regardless it was a very good signing for the price and with need for replacement for a team thats ready to win.

Sanders could easily have 80 catches in that offense, not sure about big TD numbers but he'll be a pretty pesky option and probably help to frustrate a lot of teams by helping to convert 3rd downs.
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ComebackKid


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I never liked Sanders from the get go. He has good speed and quickness, but he has inconsistent hands. He's a great route runner but for some reason he never produced the numbers that would say so.

It's a good signing for you guys, he's a upgrade from Decker. With a guy like Peyton Manning he should do very well with you guys.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ComebackKid wrote:
Personally, I never liked Sanders from the get go. He has good speed and quickness, but he has inconsistent hands. He's a great route runner but for some reason he never produced the numbers that would say so.

It's a good signing for you guys, he's a upgrade from Decker. With a guy like Peyton Manning he should do very well with you guys.


Not sure how Sanders is an upgrade from Decker. Maybe not a downgrade, but not an upgrade.

The difference between Decker and Sanders has more to do with skillSET than overall skill.

Sanders is better suited to play the slot while Decker is better suited to be the split end.

Overall, Id take Decker over Sanders though.
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