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The Hot Dish on Cassel-role
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Krauser


Joined: 20 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:51 pm    Post subject: The Hot Dish on Cassel-role Reply with quote



Matt Cassel is on top of the Vikings QB depth chart and is expected by most to be the starter in week one.

Ron Jaworski recently ranked Cassel as the NFL's 32nd best starting QB. That's no compliment, there are only 32 QBs on his list.

In no particular order, here are 10 starting QBs Jaworski ranks ahead of Cassel:
-- NYJ: Mike Vick (or maybe Geno Smith)
-- Jacksonville: Chad Henne
-- Cleveland: Brian Hoyer
-- Oakland: Matt Schaub
-- Houston: Ryan Fitzpatrick
-- Tennessee: Jake Locker
-- St Louis: Sam Bradford
-- Buffalo: EJ Manuel
-- Arizona: Carson Palmer
-- Tampa Bay: Josh McCown (or maybe Mike Glennon)

Of those 10 projected starters, how many (if any) is Cassel better than?

How good a stopgap is he?

What sort of numbers do you expect Cassel to put up if he plays all year as the starter?

If he starts 16 games, is there any chance that the Vikings make the playoffs?
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would not put Locker, Fitzpatrick, Vick/Geni, or Schaub (based on last year) ahead of him.

Outside of maybe Josh McCown, Cassel has the best supporting cast of any of those QBs; so, he's got that going for him.
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Krauser


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, he's better than Henne and equivalent to Fitzpatrick as a stopgap. That's based more on stats than anything, only seen those guys play occasionally.

Schaub seems likely to be washed up even this year, like McNabb in 2011.

I don't understand the idea that Hoyer is a starting QB, it's not based on past performance. He threw 3 picks to the Vikings last year, that was 25% of their season total in one game.

McCown is better based on last year but I wonder if that's a mirage. I like Glennon quite a bit from what I've seen and read about him.

Locker has had a few good moments but he's not been great and the injuries are a pattern. He might still pan out.

Manuel and GSmith are young and talented and probably improving. Not really the right comparison with Cassel.

Vick and Palmer are obviously way more talented but aren't much better at this stage of their careers. I'd take Palmer every time over Cassel but the gap isn't huge. Hard to rely on Vick as a passer, can you trust him to run an offense or mentor a young guy?

Bradford is definitely better by talent, track record and projected future performance.

...

And after that, I still don't think Cassel is much good. I went through quite a few of his throws while reviewing Patterson -- I don't think he's any more accurate than Ponder, he's just more confident in getting the ball out quickly and trying to attack the defense downfield.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im not sure where Jaws is coming from here. Cassel isnt a good starting QB, but my guess is that he is better than at least 5.

Id rather have Cassel over:

Geno Smith
Josh McCown
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Matt Schaub
Chad Henne
Brian Hoyer
Eli Manning (last year's version)
Jake Locker (hard to trust him staying healthy)
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Virginia Viking


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry guys, but I think Jaws has it right. I have never seen the production (with exception of his year subbing for Tom Brady) that gives me the confidence to say...Matt Cassel should be a starting QB in the NFL. I think he does start the beginning of the season, but in the highly competitive NFC North, he will be benched by game 5.
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swiss_vike


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He sure has the slowest release of any starting QB. He's no upgrade or downgrade from Ponder.
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perrynoid


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps his Cassell-role will end up being...back-up on another team? If Teddy progresses enough, and another team suffers depth issues (via injury or some other means), then perhaps the coaching staff will unload him for a late-round pick, and roll with Squander as back-up? What do ya-all think?
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the FWIW Dept:


It should also be noted that Matt Cassel finished fifth among all quarterbacks last season in deep-ball accuracy (47%), behind only Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers and Case Keenum (it should be noted this percentage includes passes that were dropped by receivers).

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/If_you_like_deep_passes_youre_going_to_get_plenty_with_Norv_Turner011614
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swiss_vike wrote:
He sure has the slowest release of any starting QB. He's no upgrade or downgrade from Ponder.


I think Cassel is a clear upgrade over ponder if you desire a qb who can move the ball and put the passing offense in good positions to succeed. Ponder made fewer mistakes but he had a significant number of games with 150 yards passing or below. Cassel passed for over 240 in three of his six starts.
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Virginia Viking


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
swiss_vike wrote:
He sure has the slowest release of any starting QB. He's no upgrade or downgrade from Ponder.


I think Cassel is a clear upgrade over ponder if you desire a qb who can move the ball and put the passing offense in good positions to succeed. Ponder made fewer mistakes but he had a significant number of games with 150 yards passing or below. Cassel passed for over 240 in three of his six starts.

And, I would continue to argue that neither should be playing except when the starter (Bridgewater by game 5) is injured. Neither have the ability to produce in the passing game consistently.
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Krauser


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ponder didn't make fewer mistakes in 2013, that was 2012 when he was coached not to take any risks with the lead. Even then he had some headslappingly stupid INTs.

Cassel's no more accurate than Ponder, Ponder probably delivers more passes right on the money at short and intermediate range, though he also has more ridiculous misses. Cassel is pretty consistently not quite accurate (in terms of target accuracy in hitting receivers in the chest, not completion percentage).

Cassel's advantage is that he reads defenses way better than Ponder does, goes through reads, and delivers the ball with anticipation. The receivers have more of a chance to make a play. Which means he can take advantage of a better receiving corps. Which means he's clearly a better option than Ponder.

But Bridgewater won't have to do anything special to beat him out, he's not very good.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Virginia Viking wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
swiss_vike wrote:
He sure has the slowest release of any starting QB. He's no upgrade or downgrade from Ponder.


I think Cassel is a clear upgrade over ponder if you desire a qb who can move the ball and put the passing offense in good positions to succeed. Ponder made fewer mistakes but he had a significant number of games with 150 yards passing or below. Cassel passed for over 240 in three of his six starts.

And, I would continue to argue that neither should be playing except when the starter (Bridgewater by game 5) is injured. Neither have the ability to produce in the passing game consistently.


Yes, you are correct. Cassel is not a bottom five starter though nor is he worse than Ponder if you want a 3500 yard passer. I'm not arguing that either is more effective, you don't want either starting but Cassel seems to have a better head on his shoulders for being a more prolific passer. Was Ponder coached safe or do coached have more faith in Cassel to run a more aggressive offense? There is no denying that the offensive passing game improved with Cassel under center.
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twslhs20


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit
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french t0ast


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no way Cassel is worse than EJ Manuel, Geno Smith, and Chad Henne.
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this providence


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-- NYJ: Mike Vick (or maybe Geno Smith)
-- Jacksonville: Chad Henne
-- Cleveland: Brian Hoyer
-- Oakland: Matt Schaub
-- Houston: Ryan Fitzpatrick
-- Tennessee: Jake Locker
-- St Louis: Sam Bradford
-- Buffalo: EJ Manuel
-- Arizona: Carson Palmer
-- Tampa Bay: Josh McCown (or maybe Mike Glennon)

I would say that Cassel isn't decisively better than any of the QBs listed. They all have their faults (and inconsistencies) but at the end of the day, they're all just plain bad starting QBs (like Cassel).

As far as how good of a stop gap is he; well, he's a hell of a lot better than watching Ponder attempt to play football. So there's that...

Playoffs? Only way I see the Vikings in the playoffs again is if Bridgewater plays and plays like a QB we should all be very excited about.
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