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Jolly cleared to return....
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Victor1124


Joined: 08 Mar 2010
Posts: 289
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Knowing our history with injuries it would be nice to keep him around.
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DavidatMIZZOU


Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 9666
Location: The ZOU
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with AG30 on Boyd. I think we got a good one there.

I'm not sure we utilize so many 2 man lines this season though.
Maybe see a Neal/Peppers/Datone with their hand down along side the other linemen. Of course, we're probably talking about these guys standing up, which, after the snap, ends up being the same thing.


And now thinking about it, I'd rather keep Jolly/Pickett on speed-dial and let Thornton, Worthy and even the camp body guys have every chance to show what they have.
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{Family Ghost}


Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 1369
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would bring a guy like Jolly or Pickett to camp and let these young guys prove they can beat them out. Jolly and Pickett need to go thru camp to get into top shape .. calling them up after a summer off might not work out too well.
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Skypilot


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 835
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DavidatMIZZOU wrote:
I'm with AG30 on Boyd. I think we got a good one there.

I'm not sure we utilize so many 2 man lines this season though.
Maybe see a Neal/Peppers/Datone with their hand down along side the other linemen. Of course, we're probably talking about these guys standing up, which, after the snap, ends up being the same thing.


And now thinking about it, I'd rather keep Jolly/Pickett on speed-dial and let Thornton, Worthy and even the camp body guys have every chance to show what they have.


The Packers would, too. That's why Pickett is still looking for work.

-I hope you're right about the 2-man lines; I would like to see some 4-man lines with Perry/Jones/Peppers/Neal lining up as true DLinemen.

-In 2009, they used Kampman in ways you describe above---both with his hand down (his strength) and standing-up, Capers' imperative.
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th87


Joined: 04 Aug 2008
Posts: 486
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skypilot wrote:
th87 wrote:
I don't see why Jolly would've worn down athletically. He's only 31.

I'd want to see if his production decreased because he was out of football for so long and needs some time to get back into that shape.


Age has little to do with it. He did wear down in 2013, and 31 is near ancient in the NFL. I used the example of Jeremy Thompson, who was how old when he was forced to retire? Or, Terrance Murphy? Justin Harrell? Finley's 28 and he's done or very close to it.

His production was fine, despite the layoff, until Jolly began to get stingers. Only then, did his performance and production fall off. Please, let's stop pretending otherwise or living in denial.


What point are you driving at? Are you saying that injuries have added up, and therefore he's not as good as he used to be? If so, I'd disagree, because we don't know if his injury woes were due an unlucky year, rather than a body breakdown.

Those dudes you cite have had severe injuries that forced them into retirement. What do they have to do with Jolly's situation?

Or are you saying that his age is causing him to get more banged up? I see no evidence of this either. Again, they could just be unlucky injuries.

31 is not even close to old for defensive linemen. Especially for a guy who took a few years off.

My point is this - see if being back in an NFL training regimen gets him close to what he was.
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Revel8


Joined: 14 Aug 2013
Posts: 1297
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
Revel8 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Revel8 wrote:
If he's back 100% I want to see him somehow make this team. He can swat down passes with the best of them and is a force in the run game.


He's not a force in the run game and he batted down 1 pass last year.



Then you don't know Jolly. When he was a full time starter, and not used as a part time rotational player, he led the league in batted down passes for a DL. He didn't lose this ability either; he was just mainly used against the run last season. Why? Because he's a force against the run.


He isn't the player he was back then. That was 2009. It was a nice story that Jolly could come back and be a decent role player, but he's never going to be what he was 5 years ago. He was serviceable, but not something I'd call a "force" last year.


I didn't see anyone talking about Jolly being the same player as 2009. What I said was his ability to swat down passes didn't suddenly disappear.

You're also skewing what was said about Jolly being a force against the run. Force means 'strength'. As in Jolly's strength. He's a force against the run, not the pass. That's why he was used mostly on running downs. If he was a force against the pass, then he'd have been used more on passing downs. It doesn't mean he's a pro-bowler in that regard or whatever skewed idea you seem to have of the word force.
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Revel8 wrote:
spilltray wrote:
Revel8 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Revel8 wrote:
If he's back 100% I want to see him somehow make this team. He can swat down passes with the best of them and is a force in the run game.


He's not a force in the run game and he batted down 1 pass last year.



Then you don't know Jolly. When he was a full time starter, and not used as a part time rotational player, he led the league in batted down passes for a DL. He didn't lose this ability either; he was just mainly used against the run last season. Why? Because he's a force against the run.


He isn't the player he was back then. That was 2009. It was a nice story that Jolly could come back and be a decent role player, but he's never going to be what he was 5 years ago. He was serviceable, but not something I'd call a "force" last year.


I didn't see anyone talking about Jolly being the same player as 2009. What I said was his ability to swat down passes didn't suddenly disappear.

You're also skewing what was said about Jolly being a force against the run. Force means 'strength'. As in Jolly's strength. He's a force against the run, not the pass. That's why he was used mostly on running downs. If he was a force against the pass, then he'd have been used more on passing downs. It doesn't mean he's a pro-bowler in that regard or whatever skewed idea you seem to have of the word force.


In the context of most sports discussions, describing someone as a force implies dominance. as for his ability to swat down passes, I don't know if it dissapeared or not. Based on cursory evidence, it would appear that it may have.
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Skypilot


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 835
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

th87 wrote:
Skypilot wrote:
th87 wrote:
I don't see why Jolly would've worn down athletically. He's only 31.

I'd want to see if his production decreased because he was out of football for so long and needs some time to get back into that shape.


Age has little to do with it. He did wear down in 2013, and 31 is near ancient in the NFL. I used the example of Jeremy Thompson, who was how old when he was forced to retire? Or, Terrance Murphy? Justin Harrell? Finley's 28 and he's done or very close to it.

His production was fine, despite the layoff, until Jolly began to get stingers. Only then, did his performance and production fall off. Please, let's stop pretending otherwise or living in denial.


What point are you driving at? Are you saying that injuries have added up, and therefore he's not as good as he used to be? If so, I'd disagree, because we don't know if his injury woes were due an unlucky year, rather than a body breakdown.

Those dudes you cite have had severe injuries that forced them into retirement. What do they have to do with Jolly's situation?

Or are you saying that his age is causing him to get more banged up? I see no evidence of this either. Again, they could just be unlucky injuries.

31 is not even close to old for defensive linemen. Especially for a guy who took a few years off.

My point is this - see if being back in an NFL training regimen gets him close to what he was.


I'm not "driving at a point" so much as stating the obvious. Johnny suffered a series of stingers last year that led to surgery in a very delicate area that often leads to retirement from the NFL. (See Jeremy Thompson.)

If you choose to ignore the obvious and live in denial, that's your prerogative. I simply stated a fact: Johnny Jolly isn't even on the Packers' roster and camp is how far away? They drafted Thornton in 2014, Boyd in 2013; Worthy and Daniels in 2012 and signed FA's Guion and Peppers in 2014, which, in Guion's case, many are ignoring.

McCarthy has repeatedly said they are going lighter, faster more athletic on the Dline (despite what Capers wants). Shoot, even AJ dropped some weight from 2012 and we saw improvement from him in '13. Pickett and Jolly are herbivore dinosaurs: Soon to become extinct except at NT, which is how it should be in the 3/4.
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British


Joined: 11 Sep 2010
Posts: 596
Location: England
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bstars4evr wrote:
I'm all for bringing him back in

As the old saying goes, you can never have enough defensive lineman


Yes you can.

20 is too many defensive linemen.

There is a roster limit. You can't keep everyone.
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 3728
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

British wrote:
bstars4evr wrote:
I'm all for bringing him back in

As the old saying goes, you can never have enough defensive lineman


Yes you can.

20 is too many defensive linemen.

There is a roster limit. You can't keep everyone.


Oh IDK, I haven't seen anyone try it yet....Laughing
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