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Jolly cleared to return....
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Skypilot wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
SDN40 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:

How often are we playing a 5-tech? You've got Raji and Boyd who have played 5-tech reps in the past. You've got Thornton and Worthy with the body to play it if needed. You may even be able to get some decent reps out of Daniels or Peppers if need be.


So basically nobody other than Peppers that could play the position with any efficiency that we know of right now. It was my understanding that we are not going to get cute and fancy every down like last year - keep it more simple, which would lead me to believe we need more than one 5 technique, not just fill in type guys


If you replace Boyd with Peppers your initial sentence is correct. We've never seen Peppers play 5-tech.

We're a heavy 3-4 Under team as our base. We only play one 5-tech in our base. That will be Boyd's job.


Daytone Jones is your 5-tech. That's why he was drafted and he needs to step up and into that role starting in 2014. That point isn't even questionable.

Peppers is getting moved to OLB, just like Neal did in 2013, but will see some time at DE in this so-called Elephant position. Throw in Boyd, Daniels, Raji (the NT), Thornton, the ex-Viking, and the Packers have more than enough bodies on the line. At most they'll keep seven. They don't need Jolly swatting passes (he won't be cleared, anyway.) Pickett, not Jolly, needs to stay in shape, in case Raji gets injured or flops again..


SPELL HIS NAME RIGHT.

And what the hell do you mean the point isn't questionable?

Jones isn't a SSDE. He got his [inappropriate/removed] kicked so bad in the run game last year he was playing exclusively in the dime. He's not all of a sudden going to take on a 2-gap role. If Jones is going to get reps in the base it'll be as a WSDE.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtz7d5NXRWg


I can't be the only one who thought of this.
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Victor1124


Joined: 08 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Victor1124 wrote:
Jolly over Guion easily. Jolly was our second best lineman last year.


Pick your front line defenders and see if you can justify Jolly on there?


If he returns to last years form, my base 34 line would be Jolly,Raji, and Daniels. Worthy,Boyd, and Jones would be my second line. Thorton being the 7th man. Jolly could also get reps at NT and would obviously be valuable in short yardage downs.
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AlexGreen#20


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Victor1124 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Victor1124 wrote:
Jolly over Guion easily. Jolly was our second best lineman last year.


Pick your front line defenders and see if you can justify Jolly on there?


If he returns to last years form, my base 34 line would be Jolly,Raji, and Daniels. Worthy,Boyd, and Jones would be my second line. Thorton being the 7th man. Jolly could also get reps at NT and would obviously be valuable in short yardage downs.


You think that Jolly is going to be better than Boyd?

We're talking an adequate 2gap defender with zero value on passing downs.
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AaronCharles wrote:
I have to say, I see no way we don't start 1-4, with our schedule.
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th87


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see why Jolly would've worn down athletically. He's only 31.

I'd want to see if his production decreased because he was out of football for so long and needs some time to get back into that shape.
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Skypilot


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

th87 wrote:
I don't see why Jolly would've worn down athletically. He's only 31.

I'd want to see if his production decreased because he was out of football for so long and needs some time to get back into that shape.


Age has little to do with it. He did wear down in 2013, and 31 is near ancient in the NFL. I used the example of Jeremy Thompson, who was how old when he was forced to retire? Or, Terrance Murphy? Justin Harrell? Finley's 28 and he's done or very close to it.

His production was fine, despite the layoff, until Jolly began to get stingers. Only then, did his performance and production fall off. Please, let's stop pretending otherwise or living in denial.
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incognito_man


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skypilot wrote:
th87 wrote:
I don't see why Jolly would've worn down athletically. He's only 31.

I'd want to see if his production decreased because he was out of football for so long and needs some time to get back into that shape.


Age has little to do with it. He did wear down in 2013, and 31 is near ancient in the NFL. I used the example of Jeremy Thompson, who was how old when he was forced to retire? Or, Terrance Murphy? Justin Harrell? Finley's 28 and he's done or very close to it.

His production was fine, despite the layoff, until Jolly began to get stingers. Only then, did his performance and production fall off. Please, let's stop pretending otherwise or living in denial.


you know, i've never considered that before.

Young people can get injured.

huh
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skypilot wrote:
th87 wrote:
I don't see why Jolly would've worn down athletically. He's only 31.

I'd want to see if his production decreased because he was out of football for so long and needs some time to get back into that shape.


Age has little to do with it. He did wear down in 2013, and 31 is near ancient in the NFL. I used the example of Jeremy Thompson, who was how old when he was forced to retire? Or, Terrance Murphy? Justin Harrell? Finley's 28 and he's done or very close to it.

His production was fine, despite the layoff, until Jolly began to get stingers. Only then, did his performance and production fall off. Please, let's stop pretending otherwise or living in denial.


He had his first stinger in week 2.
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AaronCharles wrote:
I have to say, I see no way we don't start 1-4, with our schedule.
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Skypilot


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Skypilot wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
SDN40 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:

How often are we playing a 5-tech? You've got Raji and Boyd who have played 5-tech reps in the past. You've got Thornton and Worthy with the body to play it if needed. You may even be able to get some decent reps out of Daniels or Peppers if need be.


So basically nobody other than Peppers that could play the position with any efficiency that we know of right now. It was my understanding that we are not going to get cute and fancy every down like last year - keep it more simple, which would lead me to believe we need more than one 5 technique, not just fill in type guys


If you replace Boyd with Peppers your initial sentence is correct. We've never seen Peppers play 5-tech.

We're a heavy 3-4 Under team as our base. We only play one 5-tech in our base. That will be Boyd's job.


Daytone Jones is your 5-tech. That's why he was drafted and he needs to step up and into that role starting in 2014. That point isn't even questionable.

Peppers is getting moved to OLB, just like Neal did in 2013, but will see some time at DE in this so-called Elephant position. Throw in Boyd, Daniels, Raji (the NT), Thornton, the ex-Viking, and the Packers have more than enough bodies on the line. At most they'll keep seven. They don't need Jolly swatting passes (he won't be cleared, anyway.) Pickett, not Jolly, needs to stay in shape, in case Raji gets injured or flops again..


SPELL HIS NAME RIGHT.

And what the hell do you mean the point isn't questionable?

Jones isn't a SSDE. He got his [inappropriate/removed] kicked so bad in the run game last year he was playing exclusively in the dime. He's not all of a sudden going to take on a 2-gap role. If Jones is going to get reps in the base it'll be as a WSDE.


What are you going on about, now?
I didn't claim Daytone Jones was anything but bad v. the run in his rookie season, Alex. I said he had to step up into the position he was drafted to play. Give the kid a chance. We know lining up three fatties like Raji, Pickett and Jolly doesn't work unless all your interested in is stopping the run and eating blockers so Jones, Burnett and Hawk can make tackles to yards downfield. We know, they can't stop the 49'ers or SeaHawks (shoot, the Lions for that matter) in "base." Not that they are in the "base" (it sure is) even half the time. You'll see both Peppers and Jones in there a lot at end with Daniels, Raji and even Boyd.

Quote:
If he [Jolly] returns to last years form, my base 34 line would be Jolly,Raji, and Daniels. Worthy,Boyd, and Jones would be my second line. Thorton being the 7th man. Jolly could also get reps at NT and would obviously be valuable in short yardage downs.


Jolly isn't even on the roster, and hasn't been cleared to play by the people who's judgment counts. Why put him in the Packers "base?"
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 3153
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skypilot wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Skypilot wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
SDN40 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:

How often are we playing a 5-tech? You've got Raji and Boyd who have played 5-tech reps in the past. You've got Thornton and Worthy with the body to play it if needed. You may even be able to get some decent reps out of Daniels or Peppers if need be.


So basically nobody other than Peppers that could play the position with any efficiency that we know of right now. It was my understanding that we are not going to get cute and fancy every down like last year - keep it more simple, which would lead me to believe we need more than one 5 technique, not just fill in type guys


If you replace Boyd with Peppers your initial sentence is correct. We've never seen Peppers play 5-tech.

We're a heavy 3-4 Under team as our base. We only play one 5-tech in our base. That will be Boyd's job.


Daytone Jones is your 5-tech. That's why he was drafted and he needs to step up and into that role starting in 2014. That point isn't even questionable.

Peppers is getting moved to OLB, just like Neal did in 2013, but will see some time at DE in this so-called Elephant position. Throw in Boyd, Daniels, Raji (the NT), Thornton, the ex-Viking, and the Packers have more than enough bodies on the line. At most they'll keep seven. They don't need Jolly swatting passes (he won't be cleared, anyway.) Pickett, not Jolly, needs to stay in shape, in case Raji gets injured or flops again..


SPELL HIS NAME RIGHT.

And what the hell do you mean the point isn't questionable?

Jones isn't a SSDE. He got his [inappropriate/removed] kicked so bad in the run game last year he was playing exclusively in the dime. He's not all of a sudden going to take on a 2-gap role. If Jones is going to get reps in the base it'll be as a WSDE.


What are you going on about, now?
I didn't claim Daytone Jones was anything but bad v. the run in his rookie season, Alex. I said he had to step up into the position he was drafted to play. Give the kid a chance. We know lining up three fatties like Raji, Pickett and Jolly doesn't work unless all your interested in is stopping the run and eating blockers so Jones, Burnett and Hawk can make tackles to yards downfield. We know, they can't stop the 49'ers or SeaHawks (shoot, the Lions for that matter) in "base." Not that they are in the "base" (it sure is) even half the time. You'll see both Peppers and Jones in there a lot at end with Daniels, Raji and even Boyd.

Quote:
If he [Jolly] returns to last years form, my base 34 line would be Jolly,Raji, and Daniels. Worthy,Boyd, and Jones would be my second line. Thorton being the 7th man. Jolly could also get reps at NT and would obviously be valuable in short yardage downs.


Jolly isn't even on the roster, and hasn't been cleared to play by the people who's judgment counts. Why put him in the Packers "base?"


Lol, you're so intentionally trying to rile him up at this point doing it again. There's no way you did that on accident or missed his comment about spelling it wrong.
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Victor1124


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Victor1124 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Victor1124 wrote:
Jolly over Guion easily. Jolly was our second best lineman last year.


Pick your front line defenders and see if you can justify Jolly on there?


If he returns to last years form, my base 34 line would be Jolly,Raji, and Daniels. Worthy,Boyd, and Jones would be my second line. Thorton being the 7th man. Jolly could also get reps at NT and would obviously be valuable in short yardage downs.


You think that Jolly is going to be better than Boyd?

We're talking an adequate 2gap defender with zero value on passing downs.


I do think he will be better than Boyd. Do we keep 7 D-line? I can't remember. If we do then I take Jolly of Guion any day of the week.
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AlexGreen#20


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Victor1124 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Victor1124 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Victor1124 wrote:
Jolly over Guion easily. Jolly was our second best lineman last year.


Pick your front line defenders and see if you can justify Jolly on there?


If he returns to last years form, my base 34 line would be Jolly,Raji, and Daniels. Worthy,Boyd, and Jones would be my second line. Thorton being the 7th man. Jolly could also get reps at NT and would obviously be valuable in short yardage downs.


You think that Jolly is going to be better than Boyd?

We're talking an adequate 2gap defender with zero value on passing downs.


I do think he will be better than Boyd. Do we keep 7 D-line? I can't remember. If we do then I take Jolly of Guion any day of the week.


You and I have very different opinions of Jolly, very different expectations of Boyd, or both.
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AaronCharles wrote:
I have to say, I see no way we don't start 1-4, with our schedule.
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Victor1124


Joined: 08 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Victor1124 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Victor1124 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Victor1124 wrote:
Jolly over Guion easily. Jolly was our second best lineman last year.


Pick your front line defenders and see if you can justify Jolly on there?


If he returns to last years form, my base 34 line would be Jolly,Raji, and Daniels. Worthy,Boyd, and Jones would be my second line. Thorton being the 7th man. Jolly could also get reps at NT and would obviously be valuable in short yardage downs.


You think that Jolly is going to be better than Boyd?

We're talking an adequate 2gap defender with zero value on passing downs.




I do think he will be better than Boyd. Do we keep 7 D-line? I can't remember. If we do then I take Jolly of Guion any day of the week.


You and I have very different opinions of Jolly, very different expectations of Boyd, or both.


I didn't have my eye on Boyd enough. I liked what I saw and I like that he added size this off-season but I'll have to wait and see. I liked Jolly a lot. I thought he was very disruptive in the run game and gave our defense attitude and veteran leadership. Once again of we keep 7 d-lineman then it isn't about Boyd vs Jolly for me. You would take Guion over Jolly?
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AlexGreen#20


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Victor1124 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Victor1124 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Victor1124 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Victor1124 wrote:
Jolly over Guion easily. Jolly was our second best lineman last year.


Pick your front line defenders and see if you can justify Jolly on there?


If he returns to last years form, my base 34 line would be Jolly,Raji, and Daniels. Worthy,Boyd, and Jones would be my second line. Thorton being the 7th man. Jolly could also get reps at NT and would obviously be valuable in short yardage downs.


You think that Jolly is going to be better than Boyd?

We're talking an adequate 2gap defender with zero value on passing downs.




I do think he will be better than Boyd. Do we keep 7 D-line? I can't remember. If we do then I take Jolly of Guion any day of the week.


You and I have very different opinions of Jolly, very different expectations of Boyd, or both.


I didn't have my eye on Boyd enough. I liked what I saw and I like that he added size this off-season but I'll have to wait and see. I liked Jolly a lot. I thought he was very disruptive in the run game and gave our defense attitude and veteran leadership. Once again of we keep 7 d-lineman then it isn't about Boyd vs Jolly for me. You would take Guion over Jolly?


I'd take Jolly over Guion, I just wouldn't take 7 defensive lineman when you have Peppers and Neal capable of giving you reps inside on a limited basis.

Boyd-Raji-Worthy is my base.
Raji-Daniels is my nickel
Neal-Jones is my dime

The starting alignments don't change if Jolly is healthy IMO. The only real spot I can find for Jolly is backing up Boyd and Raji in the base. With how little we play the base, the upgrade in that role from Jolly to Thornton isn't worthy of a roster spot.
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AaronCharles wrote:
I have to say, I see no way we don't start 1-4, with our schedule.
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Victor1124


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Victor1124 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Victor1124 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Victor1124 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Victor1124 wrote:
Jolly over Guion easily. Jolly was our second best lineman last year.


Pick your front line defenders and see if you can justify Jolly on there?


If he returns to last years form, my base 34 line would be Jolly,Raji, and Daniels. Worthy,Boyd, and Jones would be my second line. Thorton being the 7th man. Jolly could also get reps at NT and would obviously be valuable in short yardage downs.


You think that Jolly is going to be better than Boyd?

We're talking an adequate 2gap defender with zero value on passing downs.




I do think he will be better than Boyd. Do we keep 7 D-line? I can't remember. If we do then I take Jolly of Guion any day of the week.


You and I have very different opinions of Jolly, very different expectations of Boyd, or both.


I didn't have my eye on Boyd enough. I liked what I saw and I like that he added size this off-season but I'll have to wait and see. I liked Jolly a lot. I thought he was very disruptive in the run game and gave our defense attitude and veteran leadership. Once again of we keep 7 d-lineman then it isn't about Boyd vs Jolly for me. You would take Guion over Jolly?


I'd take Jolly over Guion, I just wouldn't take 7 defensive lineman when you have Peppers and Neal capable of giving you reps inside on a limited basis.

Boyd-Raji-Worthy is my base.
Raji-Daniels is my nickel
Neal-Jones is my dime

The starting alignments don't change if Jolly is healthy IMO. The only real spot I can find for Jolly is backing up Boyd and Raji in the base. With how little we play the base, the upgrade in that role from Jolly to Thornton isn't worthy of a roster spot.


If we only keep 6 then of course i wouldn't take Jolly. I also agree that we don't need 7 d-lineman with Peppers and Neal. My thoughts were mainly on Jolly over Guion. Also you are projecting Boyd and I'm going off what I saw last year. I do think Boyd will have a good year.
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NormSizedMidget


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If he's cleared and the signing bonus isn't much is anyone against him on the 90? I feel like we're arguing for the final cuts. So much could change.
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