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Jolly cleared to return....
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Skypilot


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 758
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
SDN40 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:

How often are we playing a 5-tech? You've got Raji and Boyd who have played 5-tech reps in the past. You've got Thornton and Worthy with the body to play it if needed. You may even be able to get some decent reps out of Daniels or Peppers if need be.


So basically nobody other than Peppers that could play the position with any efficiency that we know of right now. It was my understanding that we are not going to get cute and fancy every down like last year - keep it more simple, which would lead me to believe we need more than one 5 technique, not just fill in type guys


If you replace Boyd with Peppers your initial sentence is correct. We've never seen Peppers play 5-tech.

We're a heavy 3-4 Under team as our base. We only play one 5-tech in our base. That will be Boyd's job.


Daytone Jones is your 5-tech. That's why he was drafted and he needs to step up and into that role starting in 2014. That point isn't even questionable.

Peppers is getting moved to OLB, just like Neal did in 2013, but will see some time at DE in this so-called Elephant position. Throw in Boyd, Daniels, Raji (the NT), Thornton, the ex-Viking, and the Packers have more than enough bodies on the line. At most they'll keep seven. They don't need Jolly swatting passes (he won't be cleared, anyway.) Pickett, not Jolly, needs to stay in shape, in case Raji gets injured or flops again..
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Revel8


Joined: 14 Aug 2013
Posts: 1064
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Revel8 wrote:
If he's back 100% I want to see him somehow make this team. He can swat down passes with the best of them and is a force in the run game.


He's not a force in the run game and he batted down 1 pass last year.



Then you don't know Jolly. When he was a full time starter, and not used as a part time rotational player, he led the league in batted down passes for a DL. He didn't lose this ability either; he was just mainly used against the run last season. Why? Because he's a force against the run.
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spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 10399
Location: Green Bay, WI
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Revel8 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Revel8 wrote:
If he's back 100% I want to see him somehow make this team. He can swat down passes with the best of them and is a force in the run game.


He's not a force in the run game and he batted down 1 pass last year.



Then you don't know Jolly. When he was a full time starter, and not used as a part time rotational player, he led the league in batted down passes for a DL. He didn't lose this ability either; he was just mainly used against the run last season. Why? Because he's a force against the run.


He isn't the player he was back then. That was 2009. It was a nice story that Jolly could come back and be a decent role player, but he's never going to be what he was 5 years ago. He was serviceable, but not something I'd call a "force" last year.
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PackFan4Life


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 4102
Location: De Pere, WI
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
Revel8 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Revel8 wrote:
If he's back 100% I want to see him somehow make this team. He can swat down passes with the best of them and is a force in the run game.


He's not a force in the run game and he batted down 1 pass last year.



Then you don't know Jolly. When he was a full time starter, and not used as a part time rotational player, he led the league in batted down passes for a DL. He didn't lose this ability either; he was just mainly used against the run last season. Why? Because he's a force against the run.


He isn't the player he was back then. That was 2009. It was a nice story that Jolly could come back and be a decent role player, but he's never going to be what he was 5 years ago. He was serviceable, but not something I'd call a "force" last year.


Spilltray is right on this one. I see a lot of revisionist history on Jolly's play last year in this forum. I get it, its a nice sentimental story that made him a fan favorite. But to consider him a "force" in any way last year is a huge stretch. He was serviceable. He got worse as the year progressed. He is not the player he was when he batted down 10 passes either. Simply not the same player anymore and he is probably on his last legs, if he wasn't already last year.

Again, there is no reason to bring him or Pickett or anyone else in at this juncture. Wait until TC and take stock of where these guys are at. If more is needed, they can give them a call and save them some of the TC wear and tear.
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Skypilot


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 758
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Revel8 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Revel8 wrote:
If he's back 100% I want to see him somehow make this team. He can swat down passes with the best of them and is a force in the run game.


He's not a force in the run game and he batted down 1 pass last year.



Then you don't know Jolly. When he was a full time starter, and not used as a part time rotational player, he led the league in batted down passes for a DL. He didn't lose this ability either; he was just mainly used against the run last season. Why? Because he's a force against the run.


Jolly also broke down last year, with several stingers and then surgery; similar to OLB Jeremy Thompson, who BTW, is (or was?) a medical student at UNC.
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gizmo2012


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 2781
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is definitely a needed changing of the guard on the defensive line this year. They will be quicker and younger and certainly more athletic than either Jolly or Pickett. The question is will Green Bay sign either player for training camp at a veteran minimum just as insurance in case one or more of the top group of DL go down with injury in preseason. My bet is one of them will get signed for that reason.
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SDN40


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 3792
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't consider Jolly a force by any stretch, and whether it be by injury or age he did wear down, but it was his first year back after a layoff and considering the other options - who weren't saddled with a layoff by the way - couldn't see the field at all because they flat out weren't good enough, doesn't exactly make me feel warm and fuzzy inside. Assuming one of the others can fill the role brings flashbacks of assuming McMillan could project and fill a certain role.

I don't know - something about a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush applies for me on this one, especially at the bargain price he will come at
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Tongue-Splitter


Joined: 30 Aug 2013
Posts: 2396
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like as many defensive linemen as we can possibly carry. Even if Jolly isn't the most stout run defender, doesn't knock down passes often and isn't the best pass rusher, I distinctly remember his name being called in a positive light more often than a negative light last year. I can't remember any specifics, but I seem to recall he made plays. It just sucks because this year we are (on paper) positively loaded with talent at nearly every position except for tight end, so I don't think there's any chance we have enough room for him.
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in vince able


Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Posts: 21
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember a few plays that Jolly disrupted the QB timing by putting his hands up. Just cause he couldn't lay a finger on the ball doesnt mean he no longer possesses this ability.
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HUDSONandGRUDEN


Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 95
Location: Lafayette, Colorado
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know.. look at the 1st Vikings game last year. Jolly was huge, and whats more I thought the defence as a whole played off of his leadership. Clay is fantastic, but I just don't think many of these guys can will a unit like Chuck could in 2010. I'd pass on Guion to keep a guy like Jolly around 10 times out of 10, especially if Boyd can play the nose in a pinch.

Veteran leadership I think is something more valuable to this team than anything right now. Different types lead differently, and the more types the better imo.
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 2789
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thing is this, would I say right now I want him on the 53? No. Do I want him on the 90 to let him see if he can earn it?

Yes.
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 6298
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skypilot wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
SDN40 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:

How often are we playing a 5-tech? You've got Raji and Boyd who have played 5-tech reps in the past. You've got Thornton and Worthy with the body to play it if needed. You may even be able to get some decent reps out of Daniels or Peppers if need be.


So basically nobody other than Peppers that could play the position with any efficiency that we know of right now. It was my understanding that we are not going to get cute and fancy every down like last year - keep it more simple, which would lead me to believe we need more than one 5 technique, not just fill in type guys


If you replace Boyd with Peppers your initial sentence is correct. We've never seen Peppers play 5-tech.

We're a heavy 3-4 Under team as our base. We only play one 5-tech in our base. That will be Boyd's job.


Daytone Jones is your 5-tech. That's why he was drafted and he needs to step up and into that role starting in 2014. That point isn't even questionable.

Peppers is getting moved to OLB, just like Neal did in 2013, but will see some time at DE in this so-called Elephant position. Throw in Boyd, Daniels, Raji (the NT), Thornton, the ex-Viking, and the Packers have more than enough bodies on the line. At most they'll keep seven. They don't need Jolly swatting passes (he won't be cleared, anyway.) Pickett, not Jolly, needs to stay in shape, in case Raji gets injured or flops again..


SPELL HIS NAME RIGHT.

And what the hell do you mean the point isn't questionable?

Jones isn't a SSDE. He got his [inappropriate/removed] kicked so bad in the run game last year he was playing exclusively in the dime. He's not all of a sudden going to take on a 2-gap role. If Jones is going to get reps in the base it'll be as a WSDE.
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AaronCharles wrote:
I have to say, I see no way we don't start 1-4, with our schedule.
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HUDSONandGRUDEN


Joined: 11 Jan 2012
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Location: Lafayette, Colorado
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My thing is this, would I say right now I want him on the 53? No. Do I want him on the 90 to let him see if he can earn it?


I mean obviously, if he can't play he doesn't deserve it. If you have the option though, look at wbat DD and Chuck did in 2010, Ive never gone back and watched multiple games that made me love two people more (and I've watched Steven Gerrard and jersy dudek win a trophy my dad could only dream of at that point; hopefully someone gets my drift).
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Victor1124


Joined: 08 Mar 2010
Posts: 285
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jolly over Guion easily. Jolly was our second best lineman last year.
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 6298
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Victor1124 wrote:
Jolly over Guion easily. Jolly was our second best lineman last year.


Pick your front line defenders and see if you can justify Jolly on there?
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AaronCharles wrote:
I have to say, I see no way we don't start 1-4, with our schedule.
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