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Could OLB, Chris Carter break out this year?
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
jebrick wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
If the pass rush is dependent upon Carter having a breakout season, we're in trouble. Could he breakout? Sure. Will he? Highly doubtful. Just a note, the Eagles are looking at cutting B. Graham. He was the next man up in Michigan after Woodley and his game is Woodley-like. I'm not one of the guys that a soon as a player is cut I start foaming at the mouth and pray the Steelers make a play on him. I've been around long enough to know the FO doesn't work that way. However, given his youth, his similarity to Woodley, and assuming he'd be relatively cheap, I hope they kick the tires. He could work.


I like to ask, "Why are they cutting him?" I'm sure the Steelers would not like many of the reasons.

I'd answer, "Cause he's not a 4-3 DE." (6'2" 265). He's been ineffective (at least that's my assumption).
The eagles played a 3-4 last year and he sucked in it, that's why they're considering cutting him

Didn't realize they switched but I disagree with your assessment. He had 4 sacks and barely played. I'll take 4 in spot duty over 1 in full time duty.
1. Graham had 3 sacks last year, not 4.

2. He doesn't fit the 3-4 scheme as a traiditional OLB. In 2012 he had a better year as a LDE where he contributed 5.5 sacks despite only starting 6 games.

The Steelers would have to use him as a pass rush specialist - which is fine. They'd have to use him as a down lineman on 2nd and long or 3rd downs. Don't expect Brandon Graham to be dropping into coverage and doing much of anything.

As a pass rush specialist in obvious passing situations it could work. For example if they took out one of the big 3-4 DE's or McLendon on 3rd downs and inserted Brandon Graham, that would make some sense.



Even if Graham isnt good, he has shown more than Carter.

At the very least, Id bring him in to compete with Carter.

Neither are ever going to be great, but Graham could possibly benefit from a change. Carter will continue to be worthless because the NFL game is too fast for him.
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Chieferific


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
jebrick wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
If the pass rush is dependent upon Carter having a breakout season, we're in trouble. Could he breakout? Sure. Will he? Highly doubtful. Just a note, the Eagles are looking at cutting B. Graham. He was the next man up in Michigan after Woodley and his game is Woodley-like. I'm not one of the guys that a soon as a player is cut I start foaming at the mouth and pray the Steelers make a play on him. I've been around long enough to know the FO doesn't work that way. However, given his youth, his similarity to Woodley, and assuming he'd be relatively cheap, I hope they kick the tires. He could work.


I like to ask, "Why are they cutting him?" I'm sure the Steelers would not like many of the reasons.

I'd answer, "Cause he's not a 4-3 DE." (6'2" 265). He's been ineffective (at least that's my assumption).
The eagles played a 3-4 last year and he sucked in it, that's why they're considering cutting him

Didn't realize they switched but I disagree with your assessment. He had 4 sacks and barely played. I'll take 4 in spot duty over 1 in full time duty.
1. Graham had 3 sacks last year, not 4.

2. He doesn't fit the 3-4 scheme as a traiditional OLB. In 2012 he had a better year as a LDE where he contributed 5.5 sacks despite only starting 6 games.

The Steelers would have to use him as a pass rush specialist - which is fine. They'd have to use him as a down lineman on 2nd and long or 3rd downs. Don't expect Brandon Graham to be dropping into coverage and doing much of anything.

As a pass rush specialist in obvious passing situations it could work. For example if they took out one of the big 3-4 DE's or McLendon on 3rd downs and inserted Brandon Graham, that would make some sense.



Even if Graham isnt good, he has shown more than Carter.

At the very least, Id bring him in to compete with Carter.

Neither are ever going to be great, but Graham could possibly benefit from a change. Carter will continue to be worthless because the NFL game is too fast for him.

This was/is my point. You just explained it better.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
jebrick wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
If the pass rush is dependent upon Carter having a breakout season, we're in trouble. Could he breakout? Sure. Will he? Highly doubtful. Just a note, the Eagles are looking at cutting B. Graham. He was the next man up in Michigan after Woodley and his game is Woodley-like. I'm not one of the guys that a soon as a player is cut I start foaming at the mouth and pray the Steelers make a play on him. I've been around long enough to know the FO doesn't work that way. However, given his youth, his similarity to Woodley, and assuming he'd be relatively cheap, I hope they kick the tires. He could work.


I like to ask, "Why are they cutting him?" I'm sure the Steelers would not like many of the reasons.

I'd answer, "Cause he's not a 4-3 DE." (6'2" 265). He's been ineffective (at least that's my assumption).
The eagles played a 3-4 last year and he sucked in it, that's why they're considering cutting him

Didn't realize they switched but I disagree with your assessment. He had 4 sacks and barely played. I'll take 4 in spot duty over 1 in full time duty.
1. Graham had 3 sacks last year, not 4.

2. He doesn't fit the 3-4 scheme as a traiditional OLB. In 2012 he had a better year as a LDE where he contributed 5.5 sacks despite only starting 6 games.

The Steelers would have to use him as a pass rush specialist - which is fine. They'd have to use him as a down lineman on 2nd and long or 3rd downs. Don't expect Brandon Graham to be dropping into coverage and doing much of anything.

As a pass rush specialist in obvious passing situations it could work. For example if they took out one of the big 3-4 DE's or McLendon on 3rd downs and inserted Brandon Graham, that would make some sense.



Even if Graham isnt good, he has shown more than Carter.

At the very least, Id bring him in to compete with Carter.

Neither are ever going to be great, but Graham could possibly benefit from a change. Carter will continue to be worthless because the NFL game is too fast for him.
I have no clue that the nfl game is too fast for Carter, he hasn't played in enough games IMO to determine that. As for Graham, 'if' he is cut, there is certainly no problem with good competition and you never know, Graham's second year in the 3-4 scheme could be the year he 'gets it' and he 'breaks out' - not Carter.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
jebrick wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
If the pass rush is dependent upon Carter having a breakout season, we're in trouble. Could he breakout? Sure. Will he? Highly doubtful. Just a note, the Eagles are looking at cutting B. Graham. He was the next man up in Michigan after Woodley and his game is Woodley-like. I'm not one of the guys that a soon as a player is cut I start foaming at the mouth and pray the Steelers make a play on him. I've been around long enough to know the FO doesn't work that way. However, given his youth, his similarity to Woodley, and assuming he'd be relatively cheap, I hope they kick the tires. He could work.


I like to ask, "Why are they cutting him?" I'm sure the Steelers would not like many of the reasons.

I'd answer, "Cause he's not a 4-3 DE." (6'2" 265). He's been ineffective (at least that's my assumption).
The eagles played a 3-4 last year and he sucked in it, that's why they're considering cutting him

Didn't realize they switched but I disagree with your assessment. He had 4 sacks and barely played. I'll take 4 in spot duty over 1 in full time duty.
1. Graham had 3 sacks last year, not 4.

2. He doesn't fit the 3-4 scheme as a traiditional OLB. In 2012 he had a better year as a LDE where he contributed 5.5 sacks despite only starting 6 games.

The Steelers would have to use him as a pass rush specialist - which is fine. They'd have to use him as a down lineman on 2nd and long or 3rd downs. Don't expect Brandon Graham to be dropping into coverage and doing much of anything.

As a pass rush specialist in obvious passing situations it could work. For example if they took out one of the big 3-4 DE's or McLendon on 3rd downs and inserted Brandon Graham, that would make some sense.



Even if Graham isnt good, he has shown more than Carter.

At the very least, Id bring him in to compete with Carter.

Neither are ever going to be great, but Graham could possibly benefit from a change. Carter will continue to be worthless because the NFL game is too fast for him.
I have no clue that the nfl game is too fast for Carter, he hasn't played in enough games IMO to determine that. As for Graham, 'if' he is cut, there is certainly no problem with good competition and you never know, Graham's second year in the 3-4 scheme could be the year he 'gets it' and he 'breaks out' - not Carter.


What do you mean he hasnt played enough? He has been in the league 3 years and has gotten chances he never capitalized on.

A player doesnt need to start to get an idea of his strengths and weaknesses.

Bruce Davis didnt play much either but it wasnt hard to tell how abysmal he was.

In preseason and during his time starting, he showed NOTHING to be excited about. As I said...at least with a guy like Jason Worlids, you could always see he had a good first step and was athletic. With Carter, while he isnt necessarily SLOW as an athlete, he has a below average first step, slow read and react skills, cant disengage from blocks and just looks lost when he is playing in our defense.

If you wanna be optimistic about him, power to ya. Just saying he has shown very little reason to warrant any optimism.

Graham I wouldnt have high hopes for either....but more so than Carter if only because sometimes change can help.

And while Graham played in the 3-4 a bit, it wasnt LeBeau's 3-4. Different responsibilities with coaches that know how to teach the defense better than anyone Philly has.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3 years, 3 injuries for Carter. Only played 29 out of a possible 48 games - mostly as a back up to pro bowl OLBs. I don't know how anyone can determine anything about Carter yet.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
3 years, 3 injuries for Carter. Only played 29 out of a possible 48 games - mostly as a back up to pro bowl OLBs. I don't know how anyone can determine anything about Carter yet.


That's almost 2 seasons of on the field of play. And I know he wasn't on the field every defensive snap, but that's still a lot of tape. The big thing is- he's a back-up, back-ups have to make an impact every time they are on the field if they ever want to be a starter.

Simply put, he's had his chances. I'm not saying close the book on him yet, but how many times do you have to get on the field before you make an impact?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
3 years, 3 injuries for Carter. Only played 29 out of a possible 48 games - mostly as a back up to pro bowl OLBs. I don't know how anyone can determine anything about Carter yet.


Well, for starters, 3 injuries in 3 years says quite a bit. Secondly it's not like 29 games isn't nearly 2 1/2 seasons. It's not about me or anyone else here closing the book on Carter, it's about Carter closing the book on himself. He hasn't shown anything, in all the plays he has been a part of, that suggests to me that he can be anything more than an extremely mediocre backup OLB.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wwhickok wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
3 years, 3 injuries for Carter. Only played 29 out of a possible 48 games - mostly as a back up to pro bowl OLBs. I don't know how anyone can determine anything about Carter yet.


Well, for starters, 3 injuries in 3 years says quite a bit. Secondly it's not like 29 games isn't nearly 2 1/2 seasons. It's not about me or anyone else here closing the book on Carter, it's about Carter closing the book on himself. He hasn't shown anything, in all the plays he has been a part of, that suggests to me that he can be anything more than an extremely mediocre backup OLB.
I'm not saying he's shown anything. I'm saying he's had little chance to prove himself given the fact that he was playing behind two pro bowlers for two seasons and then they drafted an OLB with their 1st round pick last year and it was apparent they were starting him (even over Worilds) in the beginning of the year, no matter what! Even though Jones clearly wasn't ready to start last year and on top of that his injuries have stunted his development so far, no matter what you all want to believe.

If he's healthy this offseason, he surely could prove he's with some thing in camp and the preseason.

Basically, I'm saying there's NO reason to write him off at this point.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could be right Turtle, heck I think a lot of us were made fools by Worilds after the big season he had, time will tell for sure there on whether he can perform like that consistently.

But I'll be honest, I don't necessarily think you're right about the notion he could break out this season, but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. (Just don't tell anyone that lol)
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:


Basically, I'm saying there's NO reason to write him off at this point.


Actually, there is quite a bit of reason, whether you choose to see it or not.

And please stop acting like he hasnt had chances. He has. Not every players chances include starting, and even he has had that chance and looked awful doing it.

You dont have to write him off if you dont want to, but you havent listed one good thing he has shown in 3 years, so at this point, its just blind optimism. Nothing he has shown points to him ever being more than a decent special teams player.

Maybe he can make some miraculous turn around, but most dont, and based on what he has shown thus far, he shouldnt even be on an NFL team as a backup.

He is lucky our depth situation is as bad as is has been.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wwhickok wrote:
You could be right Turtle, heck I think a lot of us were made fools by Worilds after the big season he had, time will tell for sure there on whether he can perform like that consistently.

But I'll be honest, I don't necessarily think you're right about the notion he could break out this season, but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. (Just don't tell anyone that lol)


The difference is, Worilds actually showed explosion and that he had value as at least a situational pass rusher. Most just didnt want to see him start. And Worilds still has ALOT to prove before anyone should feel entirely comfortable with him being a starter for an extended period.

Carter has shown nothing in terms of having value in our defense. He is slow, weak and seems lost out on the field.

If he had shown ANY type of progression in 3 years, I could see reason for hope. But he hasnt. None at all.

Again...anything can happen. There is just no reason to believe it will happen. I have more hope for that UDFA Howard Jones than I do for Chris Carter. If Jones shows any ability on special teams, he should get the roster spot over Carter since he easily has more upside at this point.
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Chieferific


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see more reason to write him off than not to.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about Larry English?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BenderRodriguez wrote:
What about Larry English?


English is actually worse than Carter, and injury prone...but again, Id take anyone for competition during the preseason.

Id rather have Graham. I think he would have the best shot at being decent in LeBeau's defense.
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