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Are #1 WR's really worth $16mil per year
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buckwild


Joined: 25 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralDissaray wrote:
buckwild wrote:
GeneralDissaray wrote:
Justin Hoover82 wrote:
16m is really high for anyone outside of QB imo. I think Dez should get paid well but more like 10m per yr.
5 yrs 50m with 20m guaranteed seems legit to me.


Thanks for the only legit response. To the others, I wasn't asking the moronic question of whether athletes or entertainers are overpaid. That's a pointless debate. I was asking whether a #1 WR is worth approximately $16 per year as it pertains to what other positions are paid, and also relative to the cap. Even if we get the best WR in the league at a young age, is it good value compared to a TE or other positions for their production, and how much cap space they eat?


Dez is going ask for way more than that as Mike Wallace got 5/$60 so factor in average of Top 5 WR so about 12-15 million a year with 30+guaranteed. QB is the only position that deserves 15+ million a year as they have the most impact on the game.


Yes. QB's touch the ball on every offensive down. Top WR's average 6-8 receptions per game. Now a WR like Dez does for defenses to commit a safety. Thus, opening the middle and making running the ball easier.


How many catches did Dez have last year? According to your estimation a Top 5 WR should have 96-128 catches per year while a QB is involved in every play whether it be the RB, WR formations etc. Which is why they catch all the criticism when things go wrong which is why they deserve more money than any other player on the field. IMHO
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CP3MVP


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WR is possibly the most overrated position in team sports, their impact of the W/L is quite minimal in the grand scheme of things.
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Denus


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cowherd (sp?) planted the seed of doubt in me last week when he went through the WR corps of recent SB champs... no real standout top5 guys. Dez is great, but Tyron Smith is the guy who needs to get paid. Letting Dez get his payday elsewhere hurts the spirit, but it's the smart move IMO. The market is just too high right now.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denus wrote:
Cowherd (sp?) planted the seed of doubt in me last week when he went through the WR corps of recent SB champs... no real standout top5 guys. Dez is great, but Tyron Smith is the guy who needs to get paid. Letting Dez get his payday elsewhere hurts the spirit, but it's the smart move IMO. The market is just too high right now.


You don't just let a guy walk if you can't replace him. WRs are not like RBs, who are a dime a dozed. What you try to do is to sign him to a reasonable contract, but you don't merely let a guy walk off the team without compensation just because you don't want to pay an extra $2M to a top player. This team is not built to absorb that kind of loss.
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Nextyearfordaboyz


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going back to the original question:

If you are telling me I can have Dez for $16 million or Graham for the $10 million he just signed for, I'll take Graham.

The problem with that is, there is only 1 Jimmy Graham in the world right now, and we don't get to make that choice. The opportunity cost of signing Dez is not missing out on Graham. It's missing out on an inferior free agent some other team didn't want to extend themselves.

Dez is a star, and he absolutely helps this team win. You have to pay the man as long as it's relatively reasonable.
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Justin Hoover82


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm hoping this Jimmy Graham deal is somewhere in the line of what Dez gets. 4-5 yrs 40-50m 20-25m guaranteed. I bet he gets more though. I bet Dez gets around 12m per yr on average.
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GeneralDissaray


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
Going back to the original question:

If you are telling me I can have Dez for $16 million or Graham for the $10 million he just signed for, I'll take Graham.

The problem with that is, there is only 1 Jimmy Graham in the world right now, and we don't get to make that choice. The opportunity cost of signing Dez is not missing out on Graham. It's missing out on an inferior free agent some other team didn't want to extend themselves.

Dez is a star, and he absolutely helps this team win. You have to pay the man as long as it's relatively reasonable.


What's reasonable? Lets clear this up, I'm absolutely against letting Dez's contract run out and sign with another team. I'm for either trading Dez for at minimum a 1st and a 3rd, or re-signing him. I'm just not sure that a star WR is worth $16mil per year. Especially, when I see Seattle, SF, Carolina, and the Pats making it deep in the playoffs without one. $16mil per year eats up a lot of cap space for a guy that on average gets 6 receptions per game. I personally would like to trade him, get multiple picks, and have overall better talent.
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WizardHawk


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralDissaray wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
Going back to the original question:

If you are telling me I can have Dez for $16 million or Graham for the $10 million he just signed for, I'll take Graham.

The problem with that is, there is only 1 Jimmy Graham in the world right now, and we don't get to make that choice. The opportunity cost of signing Dez is not missing out on Graham. It's missing out on an inferior free agent some other team didn't want to extend themselves.

Dez is a star, and he absolutely helps this team win. You have to pay the man as long as it's relatively reasonable.


What's reasonable? Lets clear this up, I'm absolutely against letting Dez's contract run out and sign with another team. I'm for either trading Dez for at minimum a 1st and a 3rd, or re-signing him. I'm just not sure that a star WR is worth $16mil per year. Especially, when I see Seattle, SF, Carolina, and the Pats making it deep in the playoffs without one. $16mil per year eats up a lot of cap space for a guy that on average gets 6 receptions per game. I personally would like to trade him, get multiple picks, and have overall better talent.


I'd agree more with the trading part if I had more/any faith in the front office. But, on the whole I believe you're on target. That's a lot of cheddar for 6-7 rec/game.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont think we are going to pay Dez $16m/yr. He has already stated that he would take a discount to stay on Cowboys. I think he will get ~12-13M per a year. He is the best player on the team and it will be money well spent.

Also - saying his contribution is only 6 catches a game is silly. He is literally the most game planned person on our team, he effects every play he is on the field.
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WizardHawk


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
I dont think we are going to pay Dez $16m/yr. He has already stated that he would take a discount to stay on Cowboys. I think he will get ~12-13M per a year. He is the best player on the team and it will be money well spent.

Also - saying his contribution is only 6 catches a game is silly. He is literally the most game planned person on our team, he effects every play he is on the field.


Yeah, the 6 reception is a big understatement. But the point remains, Dez is going have a big payday. It remains to be seen if that "hometown discount" comes to fruition or if he was just saying what everybody outside his inner circle wants to hear. He has another 90/1300/12 season or better there are going to be teams with a lot more money to throw around than Dallas coming after him.
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Dallas94Ware


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on the system and the ability of the receiver.

If they can do everything and are in a pass heavy offense, yeah, they may be worth it.

If they are a role player - even a Randy Moss caliber role player - then no.

Randy Moss was a one trick pony, who played a role doing his one trick better than anyone. You can find similar for cheaper: Plaxico Burress, for example.

But if you want a do-it-all guy who can go deep, work shallow, create YAC, be a threat in the 'and goal' area of the field, and can catch anything anywhere...then those guys are much more rare and worth the money.

The thing is, nowadays most teams pay little for receivers and stock up on guys capable of a single feat, and spread them out with other guys who do something else differently. Green Bay fields a possession/first down guy, a deep threat, a middle threat and a red zone area guy. So does New Orleans. So does New England. The result? They don't pay big bucks to receivers, and just find new guys who can do that one trick the guy they let walk was capable of.

That formula has won more rings in recent times than the older mentality of, say, Stafford to Johnson. Johnson can do it all, and be a gamebreaker anywhere on the field, running any type of route. He will get paid big bucks throughout his career.

Just food for thought, I guess.

Dez, I feel can do just about everything. He is not as complete as many thing, with some issues still when it comes to working sideline routes or breaking from the sharp outside area to the inside, failing to seperate as well as he should. But he is complete enough to garner a big pay day. And I think we should give it to him.

I would not be sad if we didn't, though. Like I said above, if we're to be a pass heavy offense, there is nothing wrong with fielding a bunch of average joes who can just do one thing really well. You still provide your QB with everything, even if it is not a single player providing it.
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GeneralDissaray


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas94Ware wrote:
Depends on the system and the ability of the receiver.

If they can do everything and are in a pass heavy offense, yeah, they may be worth it.

If they are a role player - even a Randy Moss caliber role player - then no.

Randy Moss was a one trick pony, who played a role doing his one trick better than anyone. You can find similar for cheaper: Plaxico Burress, for example.

But if you want a do-it-all guy who can go deep, work shallow, create YAC, be a threat in the 'and goal' area of the field, and can catch anything anywhere...then those guys are much more rare and worth the money.

The thing is, nowadays most teams pay little for receivers and stock up on guys capable of a single feat, and spread them out with other guys who do something else differently. Green Bay fields a possession/first down guy, a deep threat, a middle threat and a red zone area guy. So does New Orleans. So does New England. The result? They don't pay big bucks to receivers, and just find new guys who can do that one trick the guy they let walk was capable of.

That formula has won more rings in recent times than the older mentality of, say, Stafford to Johnson. Johnson can do it all, and be a gamebreaker anywhere on the field, running any type of route. He will get paid big bucks throughout his career.

Just food for thought, I guess.

Dez, I feel can do just about everything. He is not as complete as many thing, with some issues still when it comes to working sideline routes or breaking from the sharp outside area to the inside, failing to seperate as well as he should. But he is complete enough to garner a big pay day. And I think we should give it to him.

I would not be sad if we didn't, though. Like I said above, if we're to be a pass heavy offense, there is nothing wrong with fielding a bunch of average joes who can just do one thing really well. You still provide your QB with everything, even if it is not a single player providing it.


This is more what I would like to see us do, and spend draft picks heavily on D.
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cowboyfanin2890


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas94Ware wrote:
Depends on the system and the ability of the receiver.

If they can do everything and are in a pass heavy offense, yeah, they may be worth it.

If they are a role player - even a Randy Moss caliber role player - then no.

Randy Moss was a one trick pony, who played a role doing his one trick better than anyone. You can find similar for cheaper: Plaxico Burress, for example.

But if you want a do-it-all guy who can go deep, work shallow, create YAC, be a threat in the 'and goal' area of the field, and can catch anything anywhere...then those guys are much more rare and worth the money.

The thing is, nowadays most teams pay little for receivers and stock up on guys capable of a single feat, and spread them out with other guys who do something else differently. Green Bay fields a possession/first down guy, a deep threat, a middle threat and a red zone area guy. So does New Orleans. So does New England. The result? They don't pay big bucks to receivers, and just find new guys who can do that one trick the guy they let walk was capable of.

That formula has won more rings in recent times than the older mentality of, say, Stafford to Johnson. Johnson can do it all, and be a gamebreaker anywhere on the field, running any type of route. He will get paid big bucks throughout his career.

Just food for thought, I guess.

Dez, I feel can do just about everything. He is not as complete as many thing, with some issues still when it comes to working sideline routes or breaking from the sharp outside area to the inside, failing to seperate as well as he should. But he is complete enough to garner a big pay day. And I think we should give it to him.

I would not be sad if we didn't, though. Like I said above, if we're to be a pass heavy offense, there is nothing wrong with fielding a bunch of average joes who can just do one thing really well. You still provide your QB with everything, even if it is not a single player providing it.



If there is a receiver that ever deserved a high rate based on his production, that would be Randy Moss. Whether or not he was a "One trick pony" is not relevant because no one could stop that 1 trick no matter who was throwing him the ball. AND even comparing his production to Plaxico is mind boggling because Plax never came close to Randy until a one or 2 year spurt. You must be judging Randy on his Oakland stint and not his Minnesota or New England run.

Is Dez worth a lot of money AFTER Romo is gone, yes because I think that he will help the transition to another younger QB that needs a reliable target to throw to. But when saying that you will hamstring your team paying T. Smith 12 million average and having to pony up with The Beard and maybe the rookie lineman if he pans out plus giving Dez 12-15 million a year. I hope we spend some big money on quality D over the next few years, because that will win you a championship with a Sheli at QB, lol.
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Denus


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Left Tackle is big $, and IMO, more important than WR. Hopefully they'll find a way to sign both without hamstringing us, but if I only get one it's T Smith all day.

If only Dez sucked a little bit every now and then, and didn't mature in his personal life... we wouldn't need to have this conversation. Cool
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Nextyearfordaboyz


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralDissaray wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
Going back to the original question:

If you are telling me I can have Dez for $16 million or Graham for the $10 million he just signed for, I'll take Graham.

The problem with that is, there is only 1 Jimmy Graham in the world right now, and we don't get to make that choice. The opportunity cost of signing Dez is not missing out on Graham. It's missing out on an inferior free agent some other team didn't want to extend themselves.

Dez is a star, and he absolutely helps this team win. You have to pay the man as long as it's relatively reasonable.


What's reasonable?


Basically, my stance is, you sign him. I left in that caveat for the unlikely possibility that his expectations for a contract are completely out of whack.

Pay him on par with the best in the league at his position, less a small discount because he's getting his money a year early. Cowboys shouldn't have a problem paying that, Dez shouldn't have a problem signing that.
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