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pops408


Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 188
Location: San Jose, CA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:23 am    Post subject: Packers injury theory Reply with quote

I was reading this article about players getting addicted to meds constantly pushed on them during and outside of games. A players knee swells up, doc comes in and sticks a needle in him and send him back out there. Just like in the real world, the docs are drug pushers, there to meet the players every needs.

So I have a simple theory to why our team is desimated with injuries year after year. Maybe our docs are just more ethical than the rest of the NFL? Maybe when a players knee swells up, instead of diving to stick a needle in him, the doc tells him he should rest and maybe that player ends up on the injury report for the next couple weeks, but also free from a potential drug addiction. I know Favre had a bad addiction to pain killers (on that note I miss that guy what's he doin? Very Happy ), but that was a while ago, maybe the culture has changed in our locker room. Could our doctors have developed a conscience? It could be that our injury toll is on par with the norm, we just don't pump our guys with as much dope as the rest of the league. Maybe I'm crazy and just giving our team the benefit of the doubt when we should be calling for our med staffs heads? Just a theory.

http://www.chatsports.com/green-bay-packers/a/Is-it-the-NFL-the-players-or-the-team-Whos-responsible-2-9938859 Smile Smile
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raj34


Joined: 13 Mar 2014
Posts: 140
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I doubt the better angels of our doctor's natures has anything to do with it.

Most of our critical injuries from last year were unavoidable: Bulaga, Arod, Cobb, Finley, etc.

I don't have any hard data in front of me, but it does seem this team suffers an inordinate number of hamstring injuries, including Hayward's Hamstring of Doom last year. That could possibly be attributed to our training staff.
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CactusPackFan


Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 759
Location: AZ
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's really a matter of science. Today's game is faster, the players are stronger, and the forces the athlete's bodies must endure, to include planting, re-direction, hitting, etc, are greater than ever. Sports specific training helps, but simply puts the athletes in these dangerous positions (albeit not at full speed) to train their bodies to accommodate these forces. I am not sure there is a real answer to why injuries occur. That said, (and please keep in mind I am not pointing fingers or casting accusations here), but the spread of performance enhancing drugs and various masking agents to get past the minimal random testing done by the NFL could possibly be a reason.

Take a look at two possible impacts of anabolic steroid usage, which I not only believe but KNOW is rampant in the NFL, NCAA, and even at the high school levels. There are two impacts these drugs have both mentally and physically on the body:

1. Because they allow quicker repair, and help athletes maintain a higher nitrogen balance (which fuels the anabolic, or building stage), athletes on these drugs often experience rapid increases in strength to the muscle bellies, but the tendons that support them are not ready for heavier loads. One of two things then happens--either the tendon gives way under load, or the muscle tears trying to take a higher portion of the load than it should. This could possibly be why we see so many hamstring tears in the NFL.

2. Mentally, the mindset is to increase the weight--If I know I am repairing faster than normal, then I will add more weight and pyramid as often as possible--this mental aspect could also contribute to injuries when the connective tissues and tendons simply are not ready for the added forces.

Lastly, I know that athletes are taking these at younger ages, during critical stages of their growth. They get injuries when they are younger, that never fully repair, only to be re-injured later. This compounds the negative side effects even more. The longer an athlete is on them, (even if on and off for 12 week cycles which is typical) the greater these negative impacts. I am not coming at this from an accusatory view, but from a realistic, educated one. These drugs are simply part of the game, and while this may sound cynical, just look at what's happened to the average player size in the last 30 years--and it's not really leveling off. I have seen it at all levels of sports, and I believe it to be the strongest contributor to injuries. As fans, we do not want to believe that the sports heroes we love are or have been doing this, and this allows us to suspend disbelief when we hear of guys throwing up 225lbs 20-40 times in the bench press, or squatting 750 lbs at a body weight of 205, or power cleaning for reps with 315lbs.
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MathMan


Joined: 10 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packers are better and they run faster and they more likely to hurt their knee because the run so hard. If they like Haynes worth they won't get hurt but they won't make the playoffs
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 31117
Location: Madison
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's definitely some legs to our doc's being more conservative. This is well established IMO.

This has nothing to do with any injuries OCCURRING but has much to do with the timetable of the player returning.
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HyponGrey


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do we actually have any substantial evidence that our doctors are more cautious than others?
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5thStringQB


Joined: 07 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HyponGrey wrote:


Took me a second to connect the dots Laughing
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stockholder


Joined: 25 Apr 2014
Posts: 220
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Do we actually have any substantial evidence that our doctors are more cautious than others?
I think the league knows when a player test positive for pain killers, etc. Which doctors are cautious or not. They don't want Law suits for malpractice. Sounds like you want Scully and Mulder to check them out.
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Shanedorf


Joined: 18 Mar 2014
Posts: 57
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Do we actually have any substantial evidence that our doctors are more cautious than others?

Not that I have been able to ascertain. Its a common refrain among fans, but I don't know where to find the NFL Doctors' Injury Conservativeness stats online

GB does keep very detailed dossiers on their guys with records of how fast they heal, previous injuries etc. So they know that player X is a fast healer and player Y is slower
And surely there are differences between medical staffs, but its all pretty vague and I think teams prefer it that way

If anybody has any info or evidence to support this "packers doctors are more conservative /cautious" claim, I'd be interested in learning more
.
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HyponGrey


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stockholder wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Do we actually have any substantial evidence that our doctors are more cautious than others?
I think the league knows when a player test positive for pain killers, etc. Which doctors are cautious or not. They don't want Law suits for malpractice. Sounds like you want Scully and Mulder to check them out.
Can we actually do that? Somebody get me Magnum PI!
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Sandybaby716


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Do we actually have any substantial evidence that our doctors are more cautious than others?


I think it's built into the "Packer People" myth.

I think our team doctors are doing whatever any of the other teams' doctors are doing until I see any evidence otherwise.

Our injuries could stem from anything, ranging from colder weather to a different weight room routine to personal aptitude to injury to extended "bad luck". I wouldn't put any weight into our team doctors having a higher moral compass than others.
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In all fairness it is kind of rude to just lay injured at their feet while the Lions defensive players are trying to hold a completely unrelated dance party.

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Pugger


Joined: 01 May 2010
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Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

5thStringQB wrote:
HyponGrey wrote:


Took me a second to connect the dots Laughing


I'm still scratching my head...is this a witch doctor? Laughing
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pugger wrote:
5thStringQB wrote:
HyponGrey wrote:


Took me a second to connect the dots Laughing


I'm still scratching my head...is this a witch doctor? Laughing


It's a pokemon, called Jynx.
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AaronCharles wrote:
I have to say, I see no way we don't start 1-4, with our schedule.
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Revel8


Joined: 14 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CactusPackFan wrote:
It's really a matter of science. Today's game is faster, the players are stronger, and the forces the athlete's bodies must endure, to include planting, re-direction, hitting, etc, are greater than ever. Sports specific training helps, but simply puts the athletes in these dangerous positions (albeit not at full speed) to train their bodies to accommodate these forces. I am not sure there is a real answer to why injuries occur. That said, (and please keep in mind I am not pointing fingers or casting accusations here), but the spread of performance enhancing drugs and various masking agents to get past the minimal random testing done by the NFL could possibly be a reason.

Take a look at two possible impacts of anabolic steroid usage, which I not only believe but KNOW is rampant in the NFL, NCAA, and even at the high school levels. There are two impacts these drugs have both mentally and physically on the body:

1. Because they allow quicker repair, and help athletes maintain a higher nitrogen balance (which fuels the anabolic, or building stage), athletes on these drugs often experience rapid increases in strength to the muscle bellies, but the tendons that support them are not ready for heavier loads. One of two things then happens--either the tendon gives way under load, or the muscle tears trying to take a higher portion of the load than it should. This could possibly be why we see so many hamstring tears in the NFL.

2. Mentally, the mindset is to increase the weight--If I know I am repairing faster than normal, then I will add more weight and pyramid as often as possible--this mental aspect could also contribute to injuries when the connective tissues and tendons simply are not ready for the added forces.

Lastly, I know that athletes are taking these at younger ages, during critical stages of their growth. They get injuries when they are younger, that never fully repair, only to be re-injured later. This compounds the negative side effects even more. The longer an athlete is on them, (even if on and off for 12 week cycles which is typical) the greater these negative impacts. I am not coming at this from an accusatory view, but from a realistic, educated one. These drugs are simply part of the game, and while this may sound cynical, just look at what's happened to the average player size in the last 30 years--and it's not really leveling off. I have seen it at all levels of sports, and I believe it to be the strongest contributor to injuries. As fans, we do not want to believe that the sports heroes we love are or have been doing this, and this allows us to suspend disbelief when we hear of guys throwing up 225lbs 20-40 times in the bench press, or squatting 750 lbs at a body weight of 205, or power cleaning for reps with 315lbs.


I agree completely that it's based entirely in science.

The human body can only take so much stress within any given window of time. For example a bone will break if there's enough acute pressure applied within a window of say, a microsecond.

There is naturally much more overall stress applied to each player's body throughout the season, but the time frame is key here. Too much stress in too small a window of time and you can start to see the injuries piling up. AKA overworking players.

McCarthy may have given a possible hint of this in his press conference last week. He said that the # of reps they're taking now in OTAs are down to the lower 20s as opposed to the mid 30's in previous seasons. Could this be because they believe they may be overworking players a bit too much before the season?

---

As a side note, it seems to me that being in Wisconsin wouldn't be as great for a player's health throughout the season due to limited sun exposure at that latitude as well. Sunlight, contrary to what some believe, is actually very good for the body and its immune system. The body can heal better with adequate sun exposure. A team like Green Bay automatically gets the short end of the stick in this area and it likely contributes to player health issues.
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