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Contract forecast: Jordy Nelson
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 31135
Location: Madison
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BrettFavre004 wrote:
Brandon Marshall has more 1,000 yard seasons than Jordy has NFL seasons, despite being only 1 year older. Guy is a model of consistency and has put up sick numbers since he's joined the Bears.

Isn't so much a knock on Jordy, but Marshall is in the discussion for 2nd best in the game after Calvin. Unfortunately, being in his division, I also think he close to being in discussion for being 2nd best on his team.


was curtis martin an elite RB?

Yeah, Marshall gets points for being consistent. He gets a LOT of looks, but he doesn't come close to doing as much with his looks as what all of the elite WRs and probably all of the 2nd and 3rd tier WR do.

he's not super efficient throughout his career.
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Jsitton71#


Joined: 25 Nov 2010
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Location: kenosha
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BrettFavre004 wrote:
Brandon Marshall has more 1,000 yard seasons than Jordy has NFL seasons, despite being only 1 year older. Guy is a model of consistency and has put up sick numbers since he's joined the Bears.

Isn't so much a knock on Jordy, but Marshall is in the discussion for 2nd best in the game after Calvin. Unfortunately, being in his division, I also think he close to being in discussion for being 2nd best on his team.
You have to take times targeted in consideration. Marshall was always a clear #1 on every team. When him and Cutler were in Denver he was targeted a crazy amount because they were always in shootouts. Jordy just became a #1. He's always played with a loaded receiving core having to share targets with Finley, GJ's, Jones, Cobb.
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Sandybaby716


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 3645
Location: Rhode Island
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jsitton71# wrote:
BrettFavre004 wrote:
Brandon Marshall has more 1,000 yard seasons than Jordy has NFL seasons, despite being only 1 year older. Guy is a model of consistency and has put up sick numbers since he's joined the Bears.

Isn't so much a knock on Jordy, but Marshall is in the discussion for 2nd best in the game after Calvin. Unfortunately, being in his division, I also think he close to being in discussion for being 2nd best on his team.
You have to take times targeted in consideration. Marshall was always a clear #1 on every team. When him and Cutler were in Denver he was targeted a crazy amount because they were always in shootouts. Jordy just became a #1. He's always played with a loaded receiving core having to share targets with Finley, GJ's, Jones, Cobb.


Driver early on, too.

I think that the people who consider Marshall in the coversation for "right behind Calvin" have been looking only at total numbers and not what those numbers consist of. Also, I don't like to weigh career stats in these cases, as players can improve and get worse at a moments notice, so it has to be recent stats. For the record, I think it's AJ Green and it's not very close.
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Revel8


Joined: 14 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At this point it could be about a 50/50 shot whether Nelson stays or not. IMO there are too many things that need to happen first before we can really say either way. It would surprise me if he's extended before the season unless we get big news that changes circumstances; namely big news coming from the TE or WR positions.

As to who's better between Marshall and Nelson overall, it's really too close to call. I can see strong arguments made either way. You could probably debate that one all offseason and never come to a firm conclusion.
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snackattack


Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 677
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sandybaby716 wrote:
Jsitton71# wrote:
BrettFavre004 wrote:
Brandon Marshall has more 1,000 yard seasons than Jordy has NFL seasons, despite being only 1 year older. Guy is a model of consistency and has put up sick numbers since he's joined the Bears.

Isn't so much a knock on Jordy, but Marshall is in the discussion for 2nd best in the game after Calvin. Unfortunately, being in his division, I also think he close to being in discussion for being 2nd best on his team.
You have to take times targeted in consideration. Marshall was always a clear #1 on every team. When him and Cutler were in Denver he was targeted a crazy amount because they were always in shootouts. Jordy just became a #1. He's always played with a loaded receiving core having to share targets with Finley, GJ's, Jones, Cobb.


Driver early on, too.

I think that the people who consider Marshall in the coversation for "right behind Calvin" have been looking only at total numbers and not what those numbers consist of. Also, I don't like to weigh career stats in these cases, as players can improve and get worse at a moments notice, so it has to be recent stats. For the record, I think it's AJ Green and it's not very close.


I'm not getting into Jordy vs Marshall, but I think you guys are drinking the hater-aide a little too much. Isn't it a testimony to Marshall's talent that he was targeted so much and hasn't played with other strong WR talent until last year and is still so consistent? I haven't seen the details of what his stats are made of, but he certainly passes the eyeball test of being a top WR by making as many big plays / great catches as he does.

FWIW, I rank the league's WRs something like this: Calvin > Green > everyone else (with guys like Marshall and Jordy being in the top tier of "everyone else")
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Ketchup


Joined: 13 May 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

incognito_man wrote:
BrettFavre004 wrote:
Brandon Marshall has more 1,000 yard seasons than Jordy has NFL seasons, despite being only 1 year older. Guy is a model of consistency and has put up sick numbers since he's joined the Bears.

Isn't so much a knock on Jordy, but Marshall is in the discussion for 2nd best in the game after Calvin. Unfortunately, being in his division, I also think he close to being in discussion for being 2nd best on his team.


was curtis martin an elite RB?

Yeah, Marshall gets points for being consistent. He gets a LOT of looks, but he doesn't come close to doing as much with his looks as what all of the elite WRs and probably all of the 2nd and 3rd tier WR do.

he's not super efficient throughout his career.
BF004 is way off base on this one. Marshall simply is not close to the discussion of #2 behind Megatron. He's a possession WR that has always been a target monster. Don't get me wrong, he is a very impressive WR but a good amount of his bulk stats come because he gets targeted so much. His efficency has always been average at best.
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5thStringQB


Joined: 07 Aug 2013
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Location: Arizona State
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketchup wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
BrettFavre004 wrote:
Brandon Marshall has more 1,000 yard seasons than Jordy has NFL seasons, despite being only 1 year older. Guy is a model of consistency and has put up sick numbers since he's joined the Bears.

Isn't so much a knock on Jordy, but Marshall is in the discussion for 2nd best in the game after Calvin. Unfortunately, being in his division, I also think he close to being in discussion for being 2nd best on his team.


was curtis martin an elite RB?

Yeah, Marshall gets points for being consistent. He gets a LOT of looks, but he doesn't come close to doing as much with his looks as what all of the elite WRs and probably all of the 2nd and 3rd tier WR do.

he's not super efficient throughout his career.
BF004 is way off base on this one. Marshall simply is not close to the discussion of #2 behind Megatron. He's a possession WR that has always been a target monster. Don't get me wrong, he is a very impressive WR but a good amount of his bulk stats come because he gets targeted so much. His efficiency has always been average at best.


Most drops in the league this past year IIRC
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stockholder


Joined: 25 Apr 2014
Posts: 220
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:50 am    Post subject: Nelson Reply with quote

Most of your your posts are showing that nelson is only as good as his next season. TT drafts a rookie and you think he is good as a veteran. The thing your missing is the fix version. A guy leaves, we fix it. When they could have signed their own first. A rookie comes in and he's the greatest. But your losing the team chemistry, knowledge, and a player devoted to team. For all you TT disciples. Ask yourself this. Why are the Packers no longer a dynasty? Don't give me your baloney about injuries. Great teams don't use excuses. They show results on the field. It starts with the front office. We won the super bowl and should have stayed on top. They need to sign jordy Nelson. Quit plugging the dike with TTs middle finger.
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 6253
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: Nelson Reply with quote

stockholder wrote:
Most of your your posts are showing that nelson is only as good as his next season. TT drafts a rookie and you think he is good as a veteran. The thing your missing is the fix version. A guy leaves, we fix it. When they could have signed their own first. A rookie comes in and he's the greatest. But your losing the team chemistry, knowledge, and a player devoted to team. For all you TT disciples. Ask yourself this. Why are the Packers no longer a dynasty? Don't give me your baloney about injuries. Great teams don't use excuses. They show results on the field. It starts with the front office. We won the super bowl and should have stayed on top. They need to sign jordy Nelson. Quit plugging the dike with TTs middle finger.


You are like a one man advertisement for other forums.
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I have to say, I see no way we don't start 1-4, with our schedule.
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jbeltmann


Joined: 13 Sep 2011
Posts: 76
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: Nelson Reply with quote

stockholder wrote:
Most of your your posts are showing that nelson is only as good as his next season. TT drafts a rookie and you think he is good as a veteran. The thing your missing is the fix version. A guy leaves, we fix it. When they could have signed their own first. A rookie comes in and he's the greatest. But your losing the team chemistry, knowledge, and a player devoted to team. For all you TT disciples. Ask yourself this. Why are the Packers no longer a dynasty? Don't give me your baloney about injuries. Great teams don't use excuses. They show results on the field. It starts with the front office. We won the super bowl and should have stayed on top. They need to sign jordy Nelson. Quit plugging the dike with TTs middle finger.


Have you ever heard the saying "read more, post less"? Bc you are making this board absolutely unbearable with ridiculous posts. Please make it stop
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Skypilot


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 748
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Nelson Reply with quote

stockholder wrote:
Most of your your posts are showing that nelson is only as good as his next season. TT drafts a rookie and you think he is good as a veteran. The thing your missing is the fix version. A guy leaves, we fix it. When they could have signed their own first. A rookie comes in and he's the greatest. But your losing the team chemistry, knowledge, and a player devoted to team. For all you TT disciples. Ask yourself this. Why are the Packers no longer a dynasty? Don't give me your baloney about injuries. Great teams don't use excuses. They show results on the field. It starts with the front office. We won the super bowl and should have stayed on top. They need to sign jordy Nelson. Quit plugging the dike with TTs middle finger.


Plugging a dike? Laughing

Obviously he can't pay everybody market rate. Hawk, Burnett, Pickett, Shields, Sitton, Rodgers and CM3 notwithstanding. Would you have paid the 30 year-old Greg Jennings the $12-14 he and his mouthy wife and sister thought Greg was worth long term in 2013? Or, Wells, Kampman and Finley premium money into their 30's? The only one he blew was Cullen Jenkins and he was over 30. Maybe $8 M per season with decent guarantee money for Nelson IF they come to terms this summer.
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spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 10397
Location: Green Bay, WI
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Nelson Reply with quote

Skypilot wrote:
Obviously he can't pay everybody market rate. Hawk, Burnett, Pickett, Shields, Sitton, Rodgers and CM3 notwithstanding. Would you have paid the 30 year-old Greg Jennings the $12-14 he and his mouthy wife and sister thought Greg was worth long term in 2013? Or, Wells, Kampman and Finley premium money into their 30's? The only one he blew was Cullen Jenkins and he was over 30. Maybe $8 M per season with decent guarantee money for Nelson IF they come to terms this summer.


Letting Jenkins walk was easily the right move as well. He wasn't worth that deal Philadelphia gave him and they restructured him after one season and let him go after two.
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NCPackers_08


Joined: 29 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a side note to a related post above... what NFL team has been a dynasty in the last 10 years? None. Its an ever-increasing league of yearly turnover where it is extremely hard to stay on top. Dynasties are things of the past. To have made the playoffs in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, & 2013 is remarkable and something to hang your hat on. We are a dynasty of the NFC North and that is a hard thing to do year in and year out in divisions that are more competitive across the board than ever before.

Lets think about our posts a little bit more eh?
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Nick da Pick


Joined: 12 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCPackers_08 wrote:
On a side note to a related post above... what NFL team has been a dynasty in the last 10 years? None. Its an ever-increasing league of yearly turnover where it is extremely hard to stay on top. Dynasties are things of the past. To have made the playoffs in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, & 2013 is remarkable and something to hang your hat on. We are a dynasty of the NFC North and that is a hard thing to do year in and year out in divisions that are more competitive across the board than ever before.

Lets think about our posts a little bit more eh?

New England Patriots actually
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spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick da Pick wrote:
NCPackers_08 wrote:
On a side note to a related post above... what NFL team has been a dynasty in the last 10 years? None. Its an ever-increasing league of yearly turnover where it is extremely hard to stay on top. Dynasties are things of the past. To have made the playoffs in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, & 2013 is remarkable and something to hang your hat on. We are a dynasty of the NFC North and that is a hard thing to do year in and year out in divisions that are more competitive across the board than ever before.

Lets think about our posts a little bit more eh?

New England Patriots actually


2001, 2003, 2004 champs. Not really a current "dynasty".

Point is the way the rules are set up, there is enough parity where all of the well run teams at the top level of the NFL are pretty much on an even playing field year to year. Many different teams are bringing home trophys every year based on who stayed healthy and got hot. The Packers are in this mix every year. Injuries have played a role. Other teams have gotten hot, but that's life in today's NFL. The point is the Packers are consistently there. They are getting the shots. At that point everyone needs a little help from luck and specifically on the injury front the Packers haven't gotten much of that.
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